"Entitled gamers" starting to remind me of "frivolous lawsuits".

[FieryTrainwreck]

Skip the first part if you like.

"Frivolous lawsuit" doesn't mean what a lot of people think it means. It's not "a ridiculous lawsuit brought against a helpless million/billion dollar company by a greedy individual out to profit from a non-issue". There are actually plenty of safeguards against such actions built into the existing judicial system. "Frivolous lawsuit" is really a term created by those million/billion dollar companies to generate negative PR for and ill-will towards anyone who happens to sue them. It's a subtle manipulation, largely disseminated through the media, intended to undercut and essentially point the finger at victims. The idea is that if you can convince enough people that a small handful of lazy crybabies are greedily pursuing millions of free dollars while the rest of us toil away at our 9to5s, and that the money lost ends up hurting everyone else, you might garner enough support to start reforming legislation even further in favor of million/billion dollar corporations.

I'm starting to get the same vibe from the term "entitled gamers". Given the way Microsoft treated us (and really continues to treat us, if their unapologetic backtracking is any indication), and in light of Adam Orth's stated intent to deliver a speech entitled "Mob Rules: The Destructive Power of Opinion and Online Community", I can't help but feel like the industry is attempting to marginalize the "core gaming demographic" as a bunch of whiny entitled brats. Are we precisely that sometimes? Of course. Reliably so, given the breadth of our opinions? Yes. But just as there exist legitimate checks against actual frivolous lawsuits, so too are there sensible people in the gaming community who will diligently eject idiocy and bigotry.

I feel like Microsoft did nothing but screw up, and gamers did nothing but correctly and forcefully call MS on their bullshit. Yet you still see people, even prominent members of the gaming "media", lamenting the victory. You see all these quotes from industry people trying so goddamn hard not to call us a bunch of whiny little shits. It's clear as day that they're thinking it, and they want so badly to just ignore all of us and plow ahead with their own (extremely lucrative) visions for this hobby. Meanwhile, we're the ones supporting THEM. They owe US their very fucking livelihoods, yet any reasonable expectations on our part are now met with "can't please the whiny entitled gamer crowd".

If someone wants to dismiss criticism, fine. Have grounds for dismissal. Present a compelling argument to the contrary. The moment you utter anything along the lines of "blah blah entitled gamers", you've lost my respect and forfeited the debate.

 

[Legion]

I thought a frivolous lawsuit was basically suing over something minor or trivial. Suing "because you can" more than having any actual reason to (but I am not familiar with such things).

The problem is that the "gaming community" is often a very loud and whiny one. The amount of controversies we have is pretty embarrassing to be honest, and in many regards I am starting to feel less and less connected to it, because it's a little pathetic how much of a big deal some people are making over trivial things regarding entertainment products.

That said, I agree that MS and other companies are using this to their advantage. They are using a typical tactic of trying to discredit the people making the complaints as a way of distracting people from what their actual issues are. By making it sound like gamers are just whining yet again they can try and pretend that it means they can dismiss what people are saying. It's much easier to ignore a complaint if you can act as though the person making it is not worth listening to in the first place.

To be honest this whole thing reminds of the Mass Effect 3 ending debate, except this time the complaints were about not wanting to be screwed over by the industry so had a hell of a lot more validity to them.

 

[Soulrender95]

it's definitely becoming an issue especially when it's being aimed at legitimate complaints like the Xbox one DRM fiasco, it was making unfair and untenable demands of the average consumer and yeah it gets used far too much and too often to defend actions or choices by the company that are a disservice to the consumer.

That said it's not at frivolous lawsuit level yet and in some situations it is a relevant title to be leveled at certain people's actions like demanding a HD remake of a game or it to be ported to the system of their choice rather than the one the developer chose to place it, right now if I started asking/demanding for Mario, Metroid or Zelda on a non-nintendo machine I think it'd be fair to say I was acting like an entitled gamer and should be rightly called on it.

 

[Benni88]

Something which should be considered is the freedom of opinion that internet anonymity gives. I don't mean this as a positive or negative thing, but very often you can have juvenile opinions and feedback from gamers, which is difficult for developers to learn from or act upon.

I think that companies have to earn trust before consumers can trust them enough to do their own thing.

 

[krazykidd]

You know , nothing was really stopping microsoft from doing their own thing . The problem was, no one was going to buy it . So the way i see it , we saved their sorry ass . They should be thanking is.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

it's definitely becoming an issue especially when it's being aimed at legitimate complaints like the Xbox one DRM fiasco, it was making unfair and untenable demands of the average consumer and yeah it gets used far too much and too often to defend actions or choices by the company that are a disservice to the consumer.

That said it's not at frivolous lawsuit level yet and in some situations it is a relevant title to be leveled at certain people's actions like demanding a HD remake of a game or it to be ported to the system of their choice rather than the one the developer chose to place it, right now if I started asking/demanding for Mario, Metroid or Zelda on a non-nintendo machine I think it'd be fair to say I was acting like an entitled gamer and should be rightly called on it.

That's fair, and I think the anonymity/internet aspect of it is definitely an issue. The gaming community is arguably more "online" than any other, and online communities necessarily carry a host of limitations and issues that are not frequently found in more traditional information exchanges.

I guess I was particularly annoyed when this generalization was leveled at Microsoft's detractors over the last few weeks. This was one case where every "whiny, entitled, complaining gamer" was 100% right, but we still saw people trying to frame it as a non-issue that would only draw the ire of a small subset of particularly demanding consumers.

 

[TeaCeremony]

Well microsoft is a company that frankly looks like it is moving away from gaming internationally into gaming American. In that i mean all the extras seem to be focused on American homes e.g. netflix and whatnot. This feels like Microsoft is trying to tap into the American audience and offer them things that arent gaming related, tapping into another market. To do this MS needs to change the Xbox from a game purely machine to a multi-purpose machine.

They saw the PS3 outsell the Xbox last gen and with all the new indie friendly consoles saw the gaming market for Consoles becoming something much harder to sell/market for, so they tried to branch out.

So all this anti-gamer stuff about how "bad" we are is likely just an attempt to justify the new things on the console so Microsoft can go back to making money.

 

[shrekfan246]

Well, see, there's a difference between "entitled" and "spoiled", and "entitled" seems to be used in place of "spoiled" a lot lately.

In the case of the Xbox One, gamers certainly were entitled to their complaints. We shouldn't be forced to report back to Microsoft on a daily basis just for the basic use of the console we've bought. We are entitled to the right of playing our console the way we like.

Microsoft's response to all of the complaints and criticisms, however, has been highly spoiled. They've been throwing temper tantrums and shouting about how we're all wrong and stupid, until somebody paddled their bottoms and they tried their best to get rid of the grumpy face and go "Fine! You can have it your way!"

Basically, it's the difference between "entitlement" and "false sense of entitlement", which I know is a lot odder to say so people just use "entitled" anyway. I'm sure I've done it myself, if I'd care to remember.

 

[StriderShinryu]

The thing is, I think there's definitely precedent that's been set. While I don't necessarily agree with the belief that the One was a black and white case of being bad for gamers, I do think that there were enough valid complaints and criticisms shared by enough gamers that it wasn't just an entitled vocal few in this case. I do, however, feel that in the vast majority of cases, it really is just a very loudly whining minority that don't have any real grounding beyond "but that's not what I want!" And then, of course, all of that moral outrage goes out the door because they play the games anyway. It may be a case of assuming guilt before proving innocence, but I reall don't blame anyone for holding that view.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Well, see, there's a difference between "entitled" and "spoiled", and "entitled" seems to be used in place of "spoiled" a lot lately.

That is about 95% of the context I see it used on the internet now.
Ever since the Mass Effect 3 outrage, it's been a buzzword every mindless garble-monkey and troll has been misusing on the net.

I find "Entitled" is becoming the new "Hypocrite"; another word tortured and misused all across the net since it carries a vaguely negative connotation. (What is wrong with hypocrisy? As an argument, it's a fallacy and one that is rarely dismissed as such.)

 

[Bruce]

Snip

There's nothing new about it. The seeds of the anti-'entitled' movement were sown back in the 80s by bullshit cartoons which always portrayed the complainer as being wrong, and the group as always being right.

The particularly stupid kids ended up falling for it, and thus every time a major industry or political party screws the pooch or gets caught giving kids cancer, you will always get somebody going on about how 'entitled' the people who don't want cancer and would rather their pets went unmolested are.

 

[Dollabillyall]

As far as I'm concerned it is everyone's right to refuse a deal offered to them and to voice the reasons why.
Being "entitled" has nothing to do with it, it's just a consumer base getting more aptitude at the way business is done in the modern world.

 

[Silverfox99]

As a consumer you can and should tell companies what you would like to see out of their products. The entitled part for me comes into play when the consumers start to attribute false motivations and ideas with said companies in order to make them look worse and by extension get some small revenge on that company.

Examples - we save Microsoft's ass by letting then know what we wanted. (You also did yourself a favor, and the xbone would have done OK in the current console wars anyways.)
EA is evil.
BioWare is a sellout.
Blizzard is insanely greedy.
Using a false definition to support your argument that big companies are sneaky and manipulative and then talk a about a big company in the next paragraph.


None of these things are an absolute truth. They are false justifications to make a negative image of a game company because a gamer was upset by something the company choose to do. This screams a false sense of entitlement to me because the most entitled people tend to have the most outrageous and self serving opinions while at the same time being the most insecure about their position. What does it matter what a company does? If you don't like it don't use their product.

 

[UnnDunn]

I'm starting to get the same vibe from the term "entitled gamers". Given the way Microsoft treated us (and really continues to treat us, if their unapologetic backtracking is any indication), and in light of Adam Orth's stated intent to deliver a speech entitled "Mob Rules: The Destructive Power of Opinion and Online Community", I can't help but feel like the industry is attempting to marginalize the "core gaming demographic" as a bunch of whiny entitled brats. Are we precisely that sometimes? Of course. Reliably so, given the breadth of our opinions? Yes. But just as there exist legitimate checks against actual frivolous lawsuits, so too are there sensible people in the gaming community who will diligently eject idiocy and bigotry.

I feel like Microsoft did nothing but screw up, and gamers did nothing but correctly and forcefully call MS on their bullshit. Yet you still see people, even prominent members of the gaming "media", lamenting the victory. You see all these quotes from industry people trying so goddamn hard not to call us a bunch of whiny little shits. It's clear as day that they're thinking it, and they want so badly to just ignore all of us and plow ahead with their own (extremely lucrative) visions for this hobby. Meanwhile, we're the ones supporting THEM. They owe US their very fucking livelihoods, yet any reasonable expectations on our part are now met with "can't please the whiny entitled gamer crowd".

If someone wants to dismiss criticism, fine. Have grounds for dismissal. Present a compelling argument to the contrary. The moment you utter anything along the lines of "blah blah entitled gamers", you've lost my respect and forfeited the debate.

This post is the very definition of what people mean when they talk about gamers with a sense of entitlement.

Here's a reality check: gaming enthusiasts (the so-called "hardcore gamers") make up a small, shrinking portion of Microsoft's constituency. Casual users, streaming video consumers and others make up a much larger portion than hardcore gamers. And that's just consumers. Beyond that, as a platform/ecosystem provider, Microsoft has to consider its publishing, retail, manufacturing development partners who play a much larger role in Microsoft's success than gaming enthusiasts ever will.

You don't matter nearly as much as you think you do, but guys like you yell and whine the loudest. That's why you are said to be so entitled.

 

[Confidingtripod]

Personally I think the problem doesn't even lay with just Microsoft, they thought they were Valve, as much as it seems off to say, but if Valve turned around and said "we're going to make it that steam can be activated through your webcam and so your webcam is always on due to that... watching you... Tim..." A surprising number of people would defend them on the basis of being Valve

The issue is that big companies want to do this stuff, and I'm just glad that it was a company that is known for its money grabbing than one with really good PR

 

[Something Amyss]

It's a subtle manipulation, largely disseminated through the media, intended to undercut and essentially point the finger at victims.

So why did has it only started to remind you of "entitled gamer?" The abuse of the term "entitlement" is pretty much as old as iuts use to describe gamers.

 

[rob_simple]

I think the problem with the concept of entitlement is that it's used as a blanket term and is exploited on both sides.

The Xbone, in my opinion, was a legitimate victory for the consumer who actually wanted their voice to be heard for a change. To some extent you could say the same about the Mass Effect 3 fiasco, although as far as I'm aware the exact details oh who was to blame there never really came to light.

The problem with victories like this, though, is that it leads genuinely entitled people to assume that just whining about something will get them what they want --whether their complaint is consensus or even valid or not-- and that means people voicing legitimate complaints are often dismissed alongside the fruitcakes losing their shit over the colour of Sonic the Hedgehog's eyes or Dante's hair.

You can't really blame a lot of developers for thinking we're entitled when the most vocal members of our community often are.

 

[Fidchell Attano]

Please, I'm getting tired of people throwing the "entitled" card around. Its our money their products lively hood depends on, and even if I say something that at the end of the day amounts to: "Okay, I don't like this product, so they can't have my money."5 or 6 gamers like those who posted above me will throw down the "Self entitled prick" card. Frankly, I think you guys are missing something: We have a scope of acceptance, the first circle in the scope is "video game" the second circle is "Quality" the third is "customer satisfaction". If you just toss around the "self entitled prick" card as often as you do, here is what happens. The game industry gives us what they want to give us instead of marketing off a product we want, we stop buying and the industry gets shot in the testicles.

It's not entitlement, its business, we are a customer and the source of their income, if they want our money they damn well better supply the need we pay them for, if they can't then no money.

Simple as that, if that makes me entitled, then I suggest you get some business sense.

 

[Fidchell Attano]

I think the problem with the concept of entitlement is that it's used as a blanket term and is exploited on both sides.

The Xbone, in my opinion, was a legitimate victory for the consumer who actually wanted their voice to be heard for a change. To some extent you could say the same about the Mass Effect 3 fiasco, although as far as I'm aware the exact details oh who was to blame there never really came to light.

The problem with victories like this, though, is that it leads genuinely entitled people to assume that just whining about something will get them what they want --whether their complaint is consensus or even valid or not-- and that means people voicing legitimate complaints are often dismissed alongside the fruitcakes losing their shit over the colour of Sonic the Hedgehog's eyes or Dante's hair.

You can't really blame a lot of developers for thinking we're entitled when the most vocal members of our community often are.

Dude, its the gaming industry. If people are whining then they have a problem and they need to acknowledge it. If people don't complain then companies like Bioware could get off scott free, at the end of the day it comes down to whom is getting your money. Its one thing to voice your complaint, its another thing to be an odious red-neck , call up customer service, curse them out and launch death threats.

Since I have no intention of doing the latter, if there is something I do not like about a game, I will say it. Not to mention, it will influence my choice of buying a product from said company again.

'Mark of the Ninja' for example, put Klei entertainment as one of my tops. Now, I want to buy 'Don't Starve'
'Bastion' put Supergiant in good with me, and now I want to buy 'Transistor'

'League of Legends' constant output of skins, and good customer service kept me on board for awhile, but there were issues in ranked that resurfaced so much that I decided to stop playing seriously.

'Fire Emblem : Awakening' was an awesome game, now the idea of buying Nintendo games doesn't bother me anymore.

'Halo 4' was not nearly as fun as Halo 3, and now I will not be buying another halo title for awhile if ever again.

The point is, we want video games, they want money, complaints is a form of customer relations that keeps the company delivering what we want so they can get what they want.