Escape to the Movies: Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters

[Lono Shrugged]

My instinctive reaction is that JJ Abrams made a very shallow action film out of a franchise that rightly or wrongly praises itself on being intellectual and with that in mind, choosing him to direct the opponent franchise whose main struggle for the past three films has been good effects with weak plotting was an incredibly wrong move. But then, I guess Abrams isn't actually didn't write Star Trek and he's not going to write this one either. And Star Wars is a more suitable place for the over-the-top visuals (I'd say cliche but I'm not sure if it's the director who would be responsible for the death pits and platforms without handrails). So I guess you're right, maybe the backlash is a bit of a knee-jerk thing

You kinda made my argument for me a little better than I did. I am not saying that Abrams is a great director and played out lens flare jokes aside (I personally like that bokha effect but I work in cameras so I am biased) I think the argument is quite a bad one. There are lazy directors and ones who make bad decisions. A lazy director will play it safe and not put themselves out there. A lazy director would take the job no questions asked, but Abrams turned it down because he wanted to be part of the audience. I am guessing here but I think that maybe he didn't want the burden of such a cherished ip. The guy cares, and out of all the complaints I'd level, lazy is not one of them. I also thought that the sense behind the design of the ship effects (crazy, chaotic, dirty) maybe did not fit Star Trek but it would be amazing in Star Wars. He knows how to sketch a character and relationships very quickly and easy and he does damn exciting action. And personally I want the next Star Wars to have that sense of fun and energy Star Trek has, people might disagree with that but Abrams will use his whole ass

 

[Decabo]

It's a movie about hunting witches, and you're complaining about it having too much violence towards women... Wow. I guess we should have women never take a punch and just stay away from fighting instead, eh?

Oh, Bob... your obsession with forced claims of misogyny as a way of fulfilling your self-importance quota in the eyes of women continues to be shockingly misguided.

It's also cute how the intro about JJ Abrams talks to the audience as if we share your opinion of the 2009 Star Trek movie. An overwhelming majority of people thought it was great. It's fine if you don't like it, but don't be delusional enough to talk about that as if it's the general consensus.

 

[Catrixa]

I actually liked the Star Trek movie. There. I said it. I pretty much like all of Star Trek. I will probably go see the next one, too. I hope I'll be able to see more of the scenery as opposed to lens flares, but I'm pretty sure that won't critically ruin the movie. As far as Star Wars goes, I'm almost completely certain that it can't be ruined by lens flare. Especially if there are more lightsabers than main characters in it.

As far as witch hunts = misogyny goes: maybe I've played way too many video games, but witches in this context seem more like "generic evil bad monster"-du jour. You could replace them with thematically similar warlocks/necromancers/monsters that are traditionally male and I think it would probably have the same effect (I honestly haven't seen the movie, but unless the witches are women first and monsters second, I doubt it would matter much), you'd just lose the joke. Maybe the idea of them was misogynist, but the idea of a "witch" as a supernatural baddie has been diluted so many times, it feels completely divorced from the real instances of witch hunts to the point of them being two separate things in my brain. Maybe I'm not looking at things from the right perspective, but I just lump monster-movie witches in with zombies, vampires, succubi (and other various demons), Lovecraftian horrors, etc. into the "these bad guys often have X traits and do Y things (eat souls, kill children, lead people to their doom, tempt people to sin, whatever). They are traditionally killed by Z implements, and the good guys must do this before they suffer from Y things." box. Most monsters, I suppose, don't really have a historical background of innocent people being put to death for potentially being one, either.

As far as the main female character getting hurt a lot and having to be revived by the dude? I'm kinda tired of that, honestly. I'd really like to see a main female character do some butt-kicking and help out her male partner (who is awesome, but gets his tar kicked a few times and needs to be revived by the female main). It could be I'm just not watching the right movies though, so what do I know?

 

[teamcharlie]

Between the lines it sounds like Hansel and Gretel was vaguely tolerable if formulaic. One of these days a normal movie that isn't specifically about women's rights is going to figure out that it's possible for a woman to get hit by a man in a fight without being destroyed (perhaps even winning said fight!) but apparently not this month. I was hoping to hear about Parker but I understand it may not have been screened for critics, which may or may not be a bad sign.

PSA: Don't watch Movie 43. It's not funny, it's not clever, the 'tasteless joke' bits are completely missing the joke part of that equation and it somehow feels too long for its relatively compressed 90 minute runtime. And yes, every single famous person who shows up on camera just proves that literally no actor could have possibly saved it simply by their presence. Don't see it on Netflix if/when it shows up there, don't download it off a torrent site, really just completely ignore it.

 

[azriel2422]

If lens flare is the worst thing we can say about JJ Abrams directing Star Wars, then I say its a win. He directed an enjoyable and serviceable Star Trek with an interesting (but not overall deep) story, while paying homage to the past of the franchise. The original Star Wars movies aren't overly deep; they just have great dialogue and interesting character development. The original trilogy created archetypes that kinda transcended the movies, unlike the soul-less characters from the prequels. As a Star Wars fan, I'm excited and optimistic at what he can do. The biggest problem in the past was Lucas wouldn't relinquish the control of any creative processes; so with more minds in the mix I have a new hope. Or something.

 

[Krantos]

I mean, it's not like anyone was going to this movie expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

That's because NOOOObody Expects the Spanish Inquisition. Their chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear, fear and... Oh sod it, here's the vid:


You know you were asking for it.

Edit: Ninja'd. Oh well, no one expects it twice


Even when it's late

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

Meh. JJ Abrams is really not the WORST director they could have gotten for Star Wars VII. Jerry Bruckheimer would have been way worse.

 

[Elijah Newton]

What a weirdly down on Movie Bob thread this became. Personally, I'd've been hard pressed to fill a review regarding H&G - a glance at the trailer pretty much had me thinking it was a Van Helsing clone and to be avoided. Mentioning that it could be construed as misogynistic doesn't seem unwarrented and the absolute dearth of other substance to comment on totally justifies the mention. Does anyone, having seen the film or no, really think there was a lot of acting or plot in this thing to talk about? Me, neither.

I suspect his basis for calling it on misogyny is pretty sound by the way. Haven't seen it, so if I'm wrong on any of the following consider this a pre-emptive apology.

  1) all the villains are women :: the audience need never suspect a male, but women are, by gender alone, suspicious
  2) anyone appearing 'beastial' is a woman :: women are dehumanized. Again, I'm thinking guys don't suddenly transform in this. I'm assuming the troll is inhuman to start with.
  3) violence against women. the villianous bestial women exist to be beaten. In the trailer I don't see them redeemed, helped, healed or rescued. I don't think I need to reframe this - justifying violence against women is pretty much the core of misogyny.

*shrug* But eh. Tempest in a teapot. Mostly it's just unsettling to find this in such a mainstream and boring movie. If Bob wants to elaborate I'm sure he will and more clearly than I've done. For those curious, his bits on Sucker Punch have been pretty articulate and worth watching.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I can't believe it took someone that long.

 

[tehweave]

I can't be the only one who actually likes J.J. Abrahms.

(What's that? His movies make tons of money and sell tons of tickets at the box office? So I'm not the only one?)

It does seem to be a pretty common thing to poke fun at JJ's lens flare filmmaking. Yes, it's an annoying gimmick, but look past that and his movies are actually quite good. And anyone (I MEAN ANYONE) would be a better director than Lucas at this point.

 

[Operations]

Was hoping it was going to be "Movie 43" this week.
The TV trailers for it have me thinking train wreck.
Did it come out in the US this week?

 

[malestrithe]

The revelation that Abrams may be the director of the new Star Wars movie places it into the "Red Box" Rental category for me. I was never a fan of Lost. I never liked Felicity. Did not care for the Star Trek reboot. Did not see Super 8.

Also, I see the parallels between Abrams and Lucas. Both still had plenty of good will saved up when they did a Star Wars movie. I'm hoping that this will kill the career of the person who wrote Gone Fishin'.

 

[Mr_Terrific]

2009's Star Trek was awesome. I didn't know lens flare was a big deal until just now. So what? As for Abrams taking over for Lucas...those last 3 Star Wars movies were hot garbage. You can only go up from there. Even if it's Abrams shining a bright light in your eye for 3 hours with the occasional light saber fight sprinkled in between, it's better than those shitty Star Wars movies.

Also, I'd like to point out that Moviebob enjoyed Ang Lee's Hulk, which was pure doo doo butter, so yeah...

 

[Right Hook]

I'm not a huge fan of J.J. Abrams myself but I thought Star Trek was okay, it had some cool moments, at least. I think he could probably make a better Star Wars film than Mr. Modern-Day George Lucas. I know Bob has been over this sort of thing before but I'd really like to see him hash this issue out into an episode of The Big Picture. I'll take any opportunity to ponder the fate of Star Wars.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Really Bob? You think this movie is sexist but Suckerpunch isn't? ..Ok, we will have to agree to disagree, because it seems like we will never see eye to eye on sexism. However we are on the same page with the Abrams thing. I can't wait for the new Starwars full of young, hip stars showing how young and hip they are every 5 mins in case you totally forgot how HIP and FRESH they are! I am sure there will be skydiving, snowboarding and (if we're lucky) Poochy may even make an appearance!!

Seriously, fuck Abram and his nonsence.

 

[technofairyfolclor]

I haven't read all the forum replies so sorry if this is a bit of a recap ^^;

MovieBob... for the most part I agree with your movie reviews. You're one of the few reviewers out there I actually consider the opinion of because most other reviewers just kinda... try to go with whatever's gonna make them sound more popular, but you actually give an opinion. Thanks for that.

That being said... I understand you're aware of social issues and want your viewers to be socially conscious as well, a worthy goal, but it has its place. Is this a purely for entertainment film, not meant to be taken to anything beyond the surface? I haven't seen it but, from what I have seen, I'd assume so. I understand the whole witch hunt thing because, yes, when witch hunts were done they were horrible, horrible atrocities, put out against mostly women (some men) for no good reason. However, that's not what the movie's about, by your own admonition. It'd be like watching Van Helsing and saying, "The Catholic church persecuted so many people over the course of history! How dare they be portrayed as being good!" It's a fantasy ^^; an escape.

Maybe you're trying to look deeper into it than it has to look into. If you asked these questions of the person or people who came up with the idea for it would they say, "Well, we really wanted to be ironic in our depiction of misogyny" or would they be like, "Hey... I have no idea, I was just trying to make something funny"?

I dunno... This won't stop me from watching you still, but sometimes I wish people would take things that are purely meant to be watched (or played or read, etc) for an escape, things that have no meaning beyond what they are putting forth, and just... watch, play, or read them in that manner. Not everythign has a hidden agenda or meaning.

 

[Gilhelmi]

Bob, I've been watching your videos a long time but even I'm confused by the link you have between witch hunts and this movie.

Have you heard of the Salome Witch Trials?

Long story short. In Salome, Massachusetts in the 17th (or 18th, I forget) century essencally rounded up all the women who acted differently the the State thought they should, tried them in a kangaroo court with evidence that would convict anyone breathing of being a witch, and then executed them.

It is still a sensitive subject around some people I know.

 

[scw55]

Based by the trailer alone I wasn't sure.
I mean the trailer looked awesome but...
Grettle was a great female character. Strong. Appears human.

Then.

Trailer: HERE SHE BECOMES THE DAMSEL IN DISTRESS.

I don't know if that IS the plot. But that just made me think.... Oh great, is Hanstle going to have rescue her because she's a woman and he's a boy?

 

[Erttheking]

Bob, I've been watching your videos a long time but even I'm confused by the link you have between witch hunts and this movie.

Have you heard of the Salome Witch Trials?

Long story short. In Salome, Massachusetts in the 17th (or 18th, I forget) century essencally rounded up all the women who acted differently the the State thought they should, tried them in a kangaroo court with evidence that would convict anyone breathing of being a witch, and then executed them.

It is still a sensitive subject around some people I know.

You do know that some guys were rounded up too right? Does the phrase "More weight" sound familiar?