Escape to the Movies: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - The Movie That Broke MovieBob

[JimB]

You're not the only person to do it, so I don't mean to single you out when I ask: why do people do this? When people criticize the current franchise, why do people try to change the subject and start ripping apart the old one? It's very suspicious to me, because I can't help noting that people almost never respond by defending the movie--by saying, "Here are things I like about the Amazing Spider-Man 2"--but rather they respond by attacking the previous trilogy. The implication there is not that the current franchise is actually good, but rather only that the previous one isn't. It feels like a bait and switch.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the previous trilogy. Raimi loves his melodrama way too much for my taste. I just feel like people are tipping their hands when they're presented with a choice to defend this movie's good points or change the subject to attack a different movie's bad points and opt for the latter.

I think the reason for this is that Bob has pretty much held up the Sam Raimi movies as "The Best Spider-Man Movies!"

Fine, but that doesn't really have anything to do with anything. People are still attacking a different franchise rather than defending the one under discussion, which comes off as very guilty-minded, and when people do attack the Raimi films, they tend to do so by attacking elements of the movies that bear no resemblance to the bits Mr. Chipman criticized in the current series. If he complains about there being only a flimsy pretense of a story and characters with no clear motivations, the response is more apt than not to be, "Oh yeah? Well the Raimi movies are cheesy!" The only way that wouldn't be pure nonsense is if Mr. Chipman had complained about the Webb movies being cheesy, but he didn't.

People go after the Raimi movies and point out their flaws, logic hiccups and bad writing/acting because that's what Bob does to the ASM movies, while claiming the Raimi ones are the definitive versions.

I only watch his videos on this site and don't read his Twitter or blogs (I didn't know he has a blog until you brought it up), but so far as I know, he's never said the Raimi versions are definitive. He's only ever mentioned them in his videos as a basis for comparison about how certain elements can succeed or fail. I'll retract this if you know something I don't, but as best I can tell, the whole "he thinks the Raimi versions are definitive" line is a completely unsupported narrative created by people who take offense to him disliking a movie in an attempt to invalidate his opinion.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

You know one of my fav scenes from the Raimi films, or at least the aspect I think he did well? The Ol' "Parker Luck" the scene in the second movie where he keeps trying to get a drink and stuff and either it's taken away or it's empty.

I compare the first Spider-Man to ASM and as an adaptation Raimi simply "got" spider-man, by that I mean peter and his relationships. I had a better sense of what the film was trying to be, my mate says it's great and I trust him like a poison doughnut (anyone know the reference game and tv show they get a high five), so if I go see the film he's paying for the tickets.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

And this is exactly why I don't want to watch this movie. I love Spiderman and I don't want to feel a sense of dread when I see him. I'd rather remember him how he was.

 

[Rory Pond]

I didn't like Amazing Spider-Man and wasn't looking forward to the sequel. I'd like to thank Bob for saving me the time and money I might have otherwise wasted on ASM2.

Fingers crossed for Days of Future Past, but it's not looking good.

 

[KazeAizen]

Sorry to hear about your (hopefully) brief lapse into hatred of Spider-Man and comic book movies and Hollywood. Sounds like we have another Batman and Robin here, except this time the company making it is quite intent on making Batman Triumphant afterwards even if it does tank.

He's not just reacting to ASM2 being bad, but the promise of many more like it to come no matter what he says or does. Because licensing.

I know. Try cheering yourself out of this funk by doing a Big Picture or Intermission on the various Spider-Man animated series' and what you liked about each of them. Always cheers me up to remember personal favourite scenes in Spectacular and 90s Spidey. I even liked Norman Osborn's character in that one.

Or if you're up for something more relevant, explain to people 'Why Sam Raimi's Spider Man 2 Still Rules', because it's been listed on your top 3 favourite comic book movies before and people have given you flack for that. I just found it average myself, but maybe you can shed some light on why you like it so much.

Except its sounding like, to me at least, Batman and Robin can be seen as kind of a fun extension of the old Adam West Batman. Given the right mind set and group of people it can at least be a fun romp with friends. This however doesn't appear to even have that value and also I don't think we have another "Batman and Robin" on our hands. If we did the franchise would be set to die and Marvel could get the rights back if for nothing else than to protect Spider-man and let him recover from this beating for a few years. However I don't think that's going to happen. I'm hearing the Rotten Tomato meter has been dropping but the box office numbers keep going up. If it breaks even they might make a third one. It needs to come short. Substantially so and I don't think its going to do that sadly.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

I felt the same way when Mass Effect 3 ended (to this day I still have problems getting hyped for much of anything for fear of crashing disappointment.) I wish you better respect for your opinion now than we got for ours then.

I'll withhold judgement until I see this for myself, but I don't have much hope. I didn't particularly like any of the Spidy movies to date.

Couldn't have said it better. As you wish failure upon those who butchered Spider Man, i wish you to understand the full extent of the dissapointment ME3 brought upon those who loved the franchise.

Not to derail the Moviebob whining party going on in this thread, but what aspects of the ME3 endings did you not like? Feel free to be specific, as I have played through. I found them bittersweet, for the most part.

 

[gogool808]

This is something I run into a lot whenever people talk about The Amazing Spider-man, more specifically whenever anyone complains that The Amazing Spider-man seems to devote a good chunk of it's setting-up future installments to the detriment of the actual movie, or that a lot of it's important plot points seem to go nowhere people usually respond with something along the lines "Well of course they're setting up future movies. That's how the superhero genre works! Marvel does this all the time! Why is it that it's only a bad thing when Sony does it?" People need to understand that there's a difference between what The MCU does, and what Sony is doing with the new Spider-man franchise. When it comes to laying the groundwork for future installments most of The Marvel movies are actually pretty lax even when it comes to things like direct sequels. In Phase 1 especially most of the big references to future projects show up in the background, and end credits scenes, and the when the movie ends most of the overlying mysteries, huge plot threads,or big villains seem mostly dispersed, and even if there's still some big answered question or sequel hook you never feel like the movie is unsubstantial due to it. Go back and look at Iron Man's 1 & 2, The Hulk, Thor, or Captain America. Does the story feel incomplete? Do you feel like too much of the movie was devoted to something that didn't pay off? Do you feel like parts of the movie were edited out because the film makers wanted to save something for a sequel? That's the problem with The Amazing Spider-man's 1 and 2, the final product feels insubstantial because of crazed attempt to make a sprawling franchise out of only 2 movies. Back in the day we'd scoff at a bad movie for trying to tease a sequel in the last few minutes, but today "Eh. Yeah Doctor Conner's history, motivation, and personality is slapdash, and yeah we kinda don't understand where Peter's powers come from, and yeah the subplot about Richard Parker and his wife goes nowhere, and yeah we're not entirely sure why Oscorp is doing anything, but they'll be a sequel so just roll with it.". I'd be more willing to have more faith in these movies if I liked the direction or if I was sure that Sony and Mark Webb had a well thought out plan for this franchise, but with the excising of entire characters, and plots points from movies that desperately need them, I really don't think anyone knows what they're doing.

Personally I just hope that it leans towards gwen becoming carnage but that's a different story. That and peters dad revealing to just be another clone. I guess I'm more forgiving just because even bad superhero movies are superhero movies. I'm pretty sure they could just hire a competent director or producer to make a better movie. I also understand that the MCU does things differently and I accept that. I'm not someone who's hates something because everyone says I should. Also looking back the MCU doesn't set up things for the future but forgets things from the past. The entire character development from the first 20 minutes of iron man 1 completely flew out the window for every sequel involving iron man after that. The Marvel movies have many flaws that people overlook because it is still something amazing. I don't feel any different here with spider-man.

 

[Shuu]

Personally, I got like this after the first film. I was foolish enough to get my hopes up for round 2, but I guess now I don't need to bother with Sony hero flicks for a while.
Frankly, I still can't get over that "shocking" [hilarious] scene toward the end! Everyone in the audience including myself all started giggling and then the giggling settled into confused whispers of "...was that funny on purpose?" and such.

I totally understand your frustration Bob. Was a pretty piss poor movie. Piss poor superhero movies can still be fun, but the attempt at interfilm continuity in this fealt less like the promise of and interesting new breed of entertainment spanning many instalments, and more like Microsoft's attempt at taking over the entertainment world. Like Sony merely having found a way to all but stop the movie and show us a trailer for whatever else there cooking up.
And god...DAMN, the product placement! No shame!

 

[Ghadente]

aww, on one hand I really feel bad for Bob, on the other I am glad it was him and not me that had to suffer through, what i could easily tell was going to be, another bad Spidey movie.
Somewhere in the back of my head was still an off chance that I may give this movie a "oh why not" shot. Thanks to Bob, I now know not to even give the "film" a remote chance (probably not even if its free... probably, a free movie is still a free movie and i could always try and make fun of it all while watching).
I surely hope one day Spidey gets revived and pieces of you can be made whole once more. I too have felt the pain of watching something i once enjoyed turn sour, and have a distinct feeling another tragedy is soon to befall us all (i'm looking at you TMNT M.Bay Nightmare).
Anyways, a big THANK YOU to Bob, saved me time and money that i might have foolishly spent one lazy, nothing-better-to-do night. Know that your reviews are appreciated and your suffering has not been in vain. You are one of the few movie reviewers I trust and usually am in agreement with your reviews.
Stay Strong! Guardians of the Galaxy is not too far away!

 

[Tim Chuma]

Watched the Big Picture and then this straight after. Whelp!

I don't really have the money to watch all these comic book adaptations in the cinema.

There are still good films out there, you have to go looking for the really hard to find stuff. Man the Cinefamily Vimeo account is awesome, have found so much stuff.

Also scrolling through the Warner Archive Collection and just picking movies from the covers.

Back to Spiderman. Didn't he have a fight with the X-Men at one point and win? http://www.jpj.net/~angel/SvsX/SvsX.html To quote Wolverine "He made us look like fools! Like amateurs!"

Maybe someone could do a Roger Corman with the Fanastic Four and make a good movie that they will not release?

Deadpool movie should be an easy sell surely? Plenty of snark.

The Legion of Doom movie could also work as a comedy if they just show all the bad guys in a room getting their plans foiled. "As the smartest gorilla in the world, I am incapable of anything else."

 

[blackrave]

So Bob is now in his Venom period?

 

[gamegod25]

Or, shit - someone convince Sam Raimi to reboot those reboots. Anything, literally *anything* would be better than this.

Hell, I'd just say have Sam Raimi pick up the original Spider-Man series where it left off. The Bond franchise had at least eight meh-to-downright-bad movies in it and it still kept going, because nothing is ever perfect 100% of the time. So Spider-Man 3 was kind of a bust, so what? Move on and make the next one better.

But noooooooo! Batman rebooted and that was successful, so we've got to reboot everything.

That's one of the problems with comic in general, every hero is locked in an endless time loop like the movie Groundhogs Day. Sure there may be some minor differences in the details here and there but everything will unfold exactly the same way as it has before. The reason Avengers was so good was because they got all that origin story stuff out of the way beforehand and could just get down to business. More of these superhero movies would be helped if (for example) they just started with Parker already as Spider Man. They cna give a few mins getting any newcomers up to speed just not have that be the entire movie. At this point 90% of the people going to see these movies already know more or less how the origin goes so it's just going to be dull and repetitive, especially if its so soon between reboots.

Characters dying (at least the big name ones) holds no shock value because we all know it won't stick. Either they will find a way to pull a Monty Python and just get better, or the suits in charge will hit the reset button that has been worn down to a nub by now. It's not about telling a complete three act story anymore. Rather its maintaining the status quo in order to keep milking the same cow even after it has died and been brought back to life like a Frankenstein monster.

 

[madstork]

Well, we get the film industry we deserve. This will probably gross close to a billion again.

 

[KikReask]

Oh I never liked Spider-Man in the slightest bit. I've always had a burning hatred for the whiny character and as for the previous four films, I just hated them all of them so badly so I'm skipping this one. Then again I hate comic books in general these days with the only things that I like being The Dark Knight Trilogy, the X-Men film series and the excellent Marvel Cinematic Universe. Other than those three, comics don't interest me in the slightest bit.

Although I am surprised to see Bob hate this movie with a Revenge of the Fallen passion considering he thought One More Day wasn't that bad. XD But c'mon Bob, it's just a crappy movie. Yeah there's more to come but there's still other Marvel movies out there. Then again I don't completely understand why you're so upset because I hate Spider-Man and wish he burned in hell. :/

 

[sailtheplains]

I kind of felt this way after watching the second Hobbit movie. I adored LOTRs. Sure, it wasn't perfect (Arwen, urgh) but it was still a great, fun set of films, presented as an overarching character-story with Frodo being the main character in Fellowship and Frodo and Aragorn being the main characters once their stories fork in different directions. But when I watch the Hobbit and the second Hobbit....I feel like it's become more about the display than the story.

I'm sorry Bob. /patpat

 

[MCerberus]

Remember when children's cartoons (particularly one in which the main character wasn't allowed to *punch* anyone) had more thoughtful introspection on the nature of loss and coming to terms with their own being than serious films? Pepridge Farms remembers.

At least the Marvel Studios movies keep the spirit of the characters alive. The most recent Captain America had him having to deal with the bad things the government he trusted is doing (including the infiltration and corruption). Hell yes that would happen. Jackson as Fury is the most brilliant casting ever as well.

The Amazings, Wolverines, and *Shudder* Fantastic Four movies have just been dull lifeless robots put into place to trick people for as long as they could. Good thing 60s X-Men at least has a soul.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Wow. OK, despite having the funniest subtitle I've seen since the Escapist started doing them, I feel bad for Bob. He's hated movies before with unbridled fury, but ASM2 gave him an existential dilemma. I think he needs a hug and a few beers.

Just please don't cram this into every other video you do from here on out, like you did with certain others.

Slightly off-topic: What's so bad about Peter Parker finding out his parents were agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.?

captcha: Nonstop You
I think Bob's been stopped dead in his tracks by this one.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I read about the ending on wikipedia. An if it does end that way then id react the same way. lol. They are world building as quick as possible. Same as what DC are doing with BvS to get their JL movie set up. All the suits are rushing everything to make Avengers box office while ignoring what Marvel had to do and the time and risk to get there.

^Agreed.
Just like DC, they're trying too hard to rush to that Avengers gold finish, only without realizing that the very reason The Avengers worked is because every main character has had time to develop in a previous film, and each film does something to connect it to the others.

But even then, The Avengers is just a damn fun action flick; continuity hiccups and all.

If this is the route Sony and DC are going to take; well, I'm definitely going to avoid seeing any of the company's respective films going forward. (friends are trying to drag me to this film tonight...I'm trying to tell them I'm not really interested in Spiderman)

Not that I needed further encouragement to avoid DC. Last year, I was dragged to Man of Steel and sure enough I spent the entirety of that film bored and annoyed. Not for any of the "controversial" reasons comic geeks had, but because as a story, it felt rushed; resulting in some of the flattest blandest characters I've ever seen in a film.

 

[Gerardo Vazquez]

Personally I just hope that it leans towards gwen becoming carnage but that's a different story. That and peters dad revealing to just be another clone. I guess I'm more forgiving just because even bad superhero movies are superhero movies. I'm pretty sure they could just hire a competent director or producer to make a better movie. I also understand that the MCU does things differently and I accept that. I'm not someone who's hates something because everyone says I should. Also looking back the MCU doesn't set up things for the future but forgets things from the past. The entire character development from the first 20 minutes of iron man 1 completely flew out the window for every sequel involving iron man after that. The Marvel movies have many flaws that people overlook because it is still something amazing. I don't feel any different here with spider-man.

Honestly if these movies were being made alongside Marvel's own Spider-man movies then I think I'd be judging them a lot less harshly. I wouldn't love them, but I wouldn't go out of my way top hate them since I'd have perfectly good Spider-man movies to fall back on, but instead the continued success of this flawed film franchise is the reason marvel isn't making Spider-man films, so i can't help but feel I'm heaping my frustrations, and expectations on them.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

And now you know how I felt during Mass Effect 3.

In fact, you could take the beginning and end monologue, swap out Spider Man for Mass Effect, and it would be a pretty accurate summation.

For the first time since 2007, I can actually relate to Moviebob.