Escape to the Movies: The Phantom Menace 13 Years Later

Griffolion

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Aug 18, 2009
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Nice work Bob! Can't say I've ever really been too big on any of the Star Wars stuff (but I wasn't around for the originals). But I can see where you're coming from, and it's good to see that you're talking to the mirror as much as you were to us.

PS - I kinda got the feeling that this leant more over to your Big Picture series as it wasn't specifically about A film, more about what surrounds the film. Still, good watch.
 

Cekil1

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Aug 22, 2008
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Bob... THANK YOU! I am so happy that someone else came out and said what I'm sure most people are thinking. Get Over It People.

On another note, I'm calling it now and saying that "Avengers" is probably going to get bogged down by too many characters hurting for screentime and end up not as good as "Dark Knight Returns".
 

w00tage

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Feb 8, 2010
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I wonder why no one ever examines how much the 20 year delay affects the reaction? I put much, if not most, of the blame for the angst on the delay, and consider said angst perfectly justifiable for that reason. If you wait 20 years- *twenty* *years* - for the next generation of a thing that is universally considered to have been groundbreaking, imaginative, enjoyable for its time, and the next generation is universally regarded as being less groundbreaking, less imaginative, and less enjoyable than the original, even with *twenty* *years* of advancements to help, then I hold universal disappointment and criticism (including harsh criticism) to be a completely valid reaction.

Let's proof my theory - if the prequels were begun immediately after the end of the first trilogy and had come out every two years thereafter, and they were exactly the same quality *for the times* as the real prequels were for our times, what kind of reaction could be expected? I believe the reaction would be far more along the lines of "the filmmakers screwed up bigtime, what a disappointment" rather than "George Lucas raped my childhood!".

So I don't believe the "fans" can really be blamed for over the top reactions precisely because there was a twenty year delay. If there's anything Hollywood can take away from the Star Wars prequels, it's "don't wait two decades to continue a success, because any shortcomings will be magnified in the eyes of the fans by the sheer time involved".
 

LordXel

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Sep 25, 2010
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....... I LIKED THIS MOVIE! ... Don't hurt me.

Even though I have a soft spot for The Phantom Menace, it is quite flawed. But when I was a kid, all of the Star Wars movies were brilliant. The first three are timeless classics, but the other three have a lot of flaws, but they have a lot of great things as well.
 

TheRightToArmBears

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Dec 13, 2008
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I saw it again (not at the cinema mind you), and frankly, I was just struck by how incredibly boring I found it. The Obi Wan/Qui Gon vs Darth Maul fight is still fucking brilliant, but most of the film, most of the entire prequel trilogy is just dull.
 

Azmael Silverlance

Pirate Warlord!
Oct 20, 2009
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I remember when i was a kid. Man when i saw that movie i was star struck. At the time to me it was like the most amazing s**t EVER! I think i might have seen it one more time after that until the feb release couple of days ago here in Australia.

I went with my girlfriend and i am a huge Star Wars fan i enjoy the lore and the universe SW has. But maaaan...the movie simply couldnt not live up to my childhood expectations. Ive seen Clones and Revenge bunch of times as a teenager so i know why they sucked. But the childhood memory of the amazing Phantom Menace and the cool droid army was annihilated for me.

I found the movie slowpaced and with a weak acting nothing really made me immerse myself into the movie. There were great backgrounds and sets i could see that but still . . . the whole tatoine plot was weak and very slow i just couldnt enjoy the movie as much. And i knew what was going to happen too. . . so that ruined my experience aswell.


I think from now on ill avoid watching favorite childhood movies.
 

Oskamunda

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Dec 26, 2008
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Poison...I see what you did there.

Also, thank you very much for putting up that image of SEBASTIAN SHAW as Anakin...YUB NUB!

(Although, I do think it might hurt your argument to just let it go...)
 

Chanel Tompkins

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Nov 8, 2011
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Heh...of course it's not the worst Star Wars movie...that would be the Star Wars Holiday Special. But that still doesn't mean it didn't suck. It was a pretty looking film, but it was basically poo wrapped in really nice wrapping paper.h
 

scorptatious

The Resident Team ICO Fanboy
May 14, 2009
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So I've seen the movie today and I've got to say, I don't really understand why everyone seems to hate this movie so much. I thought it was pretty good. Although I can agree Jar Jar was kind of annoying and Anakin's performance was somewhat wooden. The good far outweighs the bad though, and I'm really glad that this movie has lived up to what I remember it being like as a child.

And this is coming from someone who has watched and enjoyed the original trilogy. Which I just realized I still have. :)

Maybe I'm just easy to please when it comes to Star Wars who know. :/
 

mchoueiri

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Jun 10, 2009
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This review makes sense while I still enjoy the film it was never gonna live up to the the star wars hype years later and removing all the hype I can sit down and enjoy it.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Nothing Bob has really said is new, but to be honest I think even he kind of undermines his overall point by saying that Phantom Menace is an average or below average movie, when by rights it should have been at least an above average one.

Your correct that Star Wars can't recapture long-lost innocence in the generation that worshipped the originals, but at the same time this was a dark, edgy prequel that was supposed to ultimatly be telling the story of the tradgedy that put all of the moments of the original series in motion. It could have grown up with it's audience in telling this kind of story.

I also notice that important points are being overlooked, it's not about failing to live up to expectations, but actively taking a dump on them. Basically all of the cutesy and kiddified elements. People complained about the Ewoks as not fitting with a serious, if campy, space opera, despite excuses made about needing to cut down Wookie costumes (which according to many sources is actually BS damage control). George not only ran with those elements which the fans made clear they did not want despite his disasters with "Star Wars Cuteness" in the form of things like "The Ewok Adventure", but actually wound up infecting the original movies with them in his remakes where he added cutesy CGI droids, muppets, and other things. Despite all of the "compromises" he might have made in the later movies, these elements were STILL present.

Honestly, I notice a lot of people saying nice things about George and Star Wars recently. I'm sure ToR has something to do with it, but he also made that speech about not doing any more because the fanboys would not be happy... you know, instead of acknowledging the stuff that pretty much everyone almost universally detests and deciding that he's going to go back to treating this stuff fairly seriously, so it came out closer to his original works whether that was his intention or not.

See, when George kiddifies the movies, when in part they appealed to kids and adults both because they weren't totally clean, that's what kills them. A bit of cuteness here and there is fine, but when it's non-stop, we have actual little kid "heroes" like a disney movie, and a flawed, badass hero like Han Solo has to be turned into a white knight (which undermines the whole character and point of the Greedo scene where he shot)... that is what slots people off. The movies might technically be fine, the FX might have been good in the day, but you have to look at the whole and people are slotted off by more than just fanboy rage.

I doubt your saying this now either because of George's comments or ToR, but honestly I think Phantom Menace deserves the scorn it gets when viewed in an overall context, there is more behind it than just the movies themselves, or the fanboy backlash, there is such universal hate because of where the movie failed and certain central desicians that should never have been made.

As odd as it sounds I'd like to see more Star Wars, but honestly I'm not sure if George should be the one to actually make them. Of course the problem is he's the original creator and finding a successor who can be seen as the new official voice of a series like this is rough, since nobody (not even Timothy Zahn) has succeeded, in part because of Lucas's voice always being there, and really he's not the man he used to be 25 years ago he might have been able to make another good Star Wars movie, but not the guy he is today who seems more interested in selling cute toys to kids (which is a big part of the hate, since the motivation for the cuteness is obvious) than turning out a worthy work of space fantasy.
 

moosek

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Nov 5, 2009
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Dude, I'm not watching it again.

Empire Strikes Back is one of my favorite movies, and I'm into the expanded universe pretty deep. And yeah, I have an emotional attachment to episodes VI, V, and I didn't see VI until I was 14. That was seven years ago. I'm not a grown-ass adult, but I had some Star Wars VHS's when I was 5, and HOLY SHIT it was awesome.
 

Tonythion

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Aug 28, 2010
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comments tl;dr

I always loved Phantom Menace. I loved Jar Jar! Most of all I loved DARTH MAUL.
Episode One was the last acceptable Star Wars anything really. The only think I couldn't really stand was Princess Amidala and some of the CGI. People didn't like the Pod races? THIS IS A FIRST FOR ME.
 

endplanets

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Mar 18, 2011
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Despite what fans say there were several elements of the prequels that everyone including the fans love. Such as:
Darth Maul
Goofy lightsabers (Darth Maul's double blade)
The Sith
The Force actually being strong (in the original movies the height of Vader's force power is ripping out a fridge on Cloud City. In the prequels Yoda takes down a huge droid transport ship.)
Emperor Palpatine (who really needed more time in the original trilogy)
The clone troopers and the droid army (especially in Star Wars: Battlefront)
The droideka. God damn the droideka are cool.

And if the writing wasn't so terrible the audience might have understood how awesome Palpatine's plan was and how he was playing both sides the whole time. As opposed to the audience being really confused.
 

endplanets

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Mar 18, 2011
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I always felt that the endless bitching about the prequels actually will one day have a purpose. Decades from now Hollywood will want to make the last three films, and if they take a good hard look at the fan hate and put a competent director at the helm they can easily make an amazing film.
 

keserak

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Aug 21, 2009
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CriticKitten said:
But let's be honest. The film is not "slightly below average". It's pretty significantly below average. The excellent visuals (especially the lightsaber duels, which are honestly superior to those of the original trilogy, and no I don't want to hear people yell at me about saying that, because let's be honest, it's the truth) and stellar music score are not enough to save the incredibly bland story and hollow characters.
Therumancer said:
Nothing Bob has really said is new, but to be honest I think even he kind of undermines his overall point by saying that Phantom Menace is an average or below average movie, when by rights it should have been at least an above average one.
QFT.

Bob is only 75% right here. Indeed, I'll argue that Episode I is actually equally as bad as any of the other prequels -- that is, it's no better than whichever other one you think is worse -- because Episode I was first.

Episode I isn't terrible because it's merely a shitty movie. Episode I is terrible because it hurt canon.

Bob gets this half-right. Were fanboys upset? Yes. But here's the thing Bob missed: not all of the fanboys, or even the more mundane fans and afficionados, were upset because of lost nostalgia. They were upset because the Star Wars narrative -- the cycle of stories and related media -- just got worse.

Were you playing a Star Wars rpg? It just got worse.

Were you reading a Star Wars novel? It just got worse.

And so on. This is why the mitochlorians (sp) thing, for example, was aggravating. Sure, Lucas dropped it, but not everything went with it. Sure, you could "play your own game" and try to ignore that crap, but future, official offerings would be burdened with Lucas' bad writing.

What you have to understand is Lucas didn't create every aspect of the Star Wars universe and, ironically enough, the very best parts of the story weren't written by him. At all. So when Lucas went in and did the writing, he undermined the very thing that was carrying the entire enterprise.

It's not what Lucas did to nostalgia -- trust me, many of us aren't taken back to a Happy Place when we watch Star Wars. It's what Lucas did to the story.