Escape to the Movies: Untangling Spider-Man

[votemarvel]

I'll be honest I have very little interest in seeing the Amazing Spider-Man because I don't see the point in them making half the film just another slightly tweaked take on the origin story.

Spider-Man's origin story is so well known that you don't need to spend a lot of time on it.

It reminds me a little of 2003 and 2008 Hulk movies because Hulk is another character that you don't need to spend a lot of time on the origin.

The first in 2003 by Ang Lee was good but spent too long on the origin. People already know that "Banner gets hit by gamma rays, gets angry and turns green". Don't spend half the time explaining it again because you are just using up time that could be used to advance the rest of the story.

2008's The Incredible Hulk got it right. It gave you 'flashback's' at the beginning of the movie for the origin and then used the rest of the time to tell the actual story.

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

You're wanting Parker to be a sort of nerd or geek that, by and large, doesn't exist anymore.

You know what else doesn't exist?

Light Sabers.
Dinosaurs.
Powered armor suits that allow you to fly and shoot freaking LASER BEAMS
Et Cetera

I'd still love seeing movies about all those things. In fact, I'd rather see a movie about those things than beat for beat documentaries about the current teen status quo.

One of the defining characteristics of Peter Parker (at least in my mind) is that he's awkward, nerdy and generally a social outcast... you know, like most of the people reading his books. And even in today's much altered social landscape, it's possible to craft a character who is those things. Put a computer in his room with the World of Warcraft boxes in plain view. Put some Warhammer miniatures around the room, having him hanging out after alone in the photo lab/dark room after school instead of flirting with Gwen on the bleachers. Or, for bonus points, give him a copy of Watchmen (it's not Marvel studios, so a DC reference would be kinda lols)

Even just a dash of physical awkwardness would have helped. Ditch the skateboard and have him trip over his own feet once or twice, at least pre-powers. He's a tall, gangly teenager. Speaking as someone who WAS a tall gangly teenager, that happens all the time.


All that being said, I didn't hate the movie nearly as much as Bob. I agree with most of his broader points... the whole thing is a mess, but it's a reasonably enjoyable mess and it sure as hell beats standing around outside in the Airport-Runway-Melting heat.

 

[ace_of_something]

Maybe They made it more with kids in mind, ya know to sell toys. I went to see it with 4 kids all under age 11 and they all freaking loved it. I like it, it reminded me over more silver-age comics than anything.

Pointing out how contrived it is that everyone in the movie 'happens' to be linked to spider-man is bizarre. Like 90% of the villains in spider-man are on peter parker's speed-dial.
Let's name some villians peter parker (usually) knows personally or his close friends know personally.
The Lizard
The Jackal
Dr. Octopus (in some versions)
Venom
the 2nd Venom
the original Hobogoblin (till it was retconned)
Green Goblin
Green Goblin II
Chameleon
Tombstone
Stargod
Black Cat
Morbius the Living Vampire

 

[Deepz]

I really enjoyed this version of Spiderman I normally agree with Bob, however I think I understand where our ideals differ.

I am pretty excited that his personality didn't change because he was bitten by the spider. It shows that he was a good person capable of great things, the bite by a spider just enabled him to do AMAZING things. I have a T-Shirt that I really love that I have had for a few years now. It says:
"The AMAZING Spiderman. is it the Spider of is it the Man?"

I have always believed an underlying conflict for this hero is his struggle to determine who he is (this was hinted at strongly in the film)and whether or not he is amazing because the person bitten by the spider was amazing or if he just became it.

I feel that the Sam Ramey version of this pretty much showed that the spider made him amazing. With him just having the ability to shoot webs, and instantly becoming stronger.

While as this reboot he had the passion and desire to be better, even if not for the best reasons it was still HIS drive. He figured out how to build the web shooters, he trained his body in an attempt to get used to his strength, and he did what most kids would do if he got super powers, be a jerk and have fun with it.

With most if not all super hero movies you are excited about them, you say how you can't wait till release in other non related videos. However I wasn't sure if you were even going to review this movie because you had to my knowledge not even mentioned it. And to top it off my biggest point of contention with this movie you failed to address.

The crane scene was a direct plug for the a the (forgot which) Union saving the day. To make matters worse Aunt May even wore the (forgot which) Union's shirt during one of the scenes. I am not anti-union I just felt that was the worst thing the movie did. I feel that the focus on the character not knowing who he was or being well defined was intentional (especially since it was mentioned in his English class).

 

[bpricems]

Much better. This was a more objective review than the first.

 

[CK76]

For anyone interested in how the film is fairing after one week.

----------

Domestic: $140,000,000 41.0%
+ Foreign: $201,600,000 59.0%
= Worldwide: $341,600,000

Production Budget: $230 million

Source: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman4.htm

---------

Now, I know marketing and all come into cost as well, but I think it is safe to say even with a steep drop off Sony will make a great deal of money on the film and the merchandise in the coming year. I have little doubt now "Amazing Spider-Man 2" will come out in 2015 range. I look forward to it as they build the story with some great pieces in place.

And now, week Two.

Domestic: $200,900,000 38.5%
+ Foreign: $320,500,000 61.5%
= Worldwide: $521,400,000

The hold (which will likely die due to Batman) is claimed to be part of positive word of mouth. So people didn't just get "suckered" in thus far, there is a sizable group that genuinely enjoyed and recommended it to others. The point? This is pretty much guaranteed to be a series (likely a trilogy) over the next decade.

 

[Storm Dragon]

Spoiler

When Gwen's father is dying. He tries to make Peter Parker to avoid seeing his daughter because being Spiderman will put Gwen in danger. Spiderman says nothing put SIMPLY WAITS FOR HIM TO DIE BEFORE SAYING NO! WHY?!? This made me from going "eh, he's slowly learning" to "WHAT A POMPOUS, BIG-HEADED, PROUD, SELFISH MAN!"

I was not expecting him to make the promise in the first place (After all, I Liked the romance and plot wouldn't let that go) but it could be handled better. Maybe if he said that he would protect her, SOMETHING other than what that scene showed. And the afterward scene?

Gwen: "You shouldn't make promises you cannon keep"

Parker: "But those are the best kind of promises."

That smacks us in the face of immaturity. Obviously, it was set up on purpose because Gwen is now on a one-way track towards death due to Peter's arrogance, but it could be handled better.

I completely disagree with you on this. First of all, he did initially try to keep his promise, as shown when he hid from Gwen at the funeral and the conversation they had afterwards. Gwen even figures out about the promise herself pretty quickly. I kept mentally shouting at him to go after her during this ending sequence because Peter keeping his promise would have caused Gwen more harm emotionally than breaking it would physically; just look at the relationship between Peter and MJ in the Raimi films if you don't believe me.

We've seen "Hero breaks up with his girlfriend to protect her" thousands of times, I'm glad this movie went with "Hero respects his girlfriend enough to let her make her own decision".

 

[xaszatm]

Spoiler

When Gwen's father is dying. He tries to make Peter Parker to avoid seeing his daughter because being Spiderman will put Gwen in danger. Spiderman says nothing put SIMPLY WAITS FOR HIM TO DIE BEFORE SAYING NO! WHY?!? This made me from going "eh, he's slowly learning" to "WHAT A POMPOUS, BIG-HEADED, PROUD, SELFISH MAN!"

I was not expecting him to make the promise in the first place (After all, I Liked the romance and plot wouldn't let that go) but it could be handled better. Maybe if he said that he would protect her, SOMETHING other than what that scene showed. And the afterward scene?

Gwen: "You shouldn't make promises you cannon keep"

Parker: "But those are the best kind of promises."

That smacks us in the face of immaturity. Obviously, it was set up on purpose because Gwen is now on a one-way track towards death due to Peter's arrogance, but it could be handled better.

I completely disagree with you on this. First of all, he did initially try to keep his promise, as shown when he hid from Gwen at the funeral and the conversation they had afterwards. Gwen even figures out about the promise herself pretty quickly. I kept mentally shouting at him to go after her during this ending sequence because Peter keeping his promise would have caused Gwen more harm emotionally than breaking it would physically; just look at the relationship between Peter and MJ in the Raimi films if you don't believe me.

We've seen "Hero breaks up with his girlfriend to protect her" thousands of times, I'm glad this movie went with "Hero respects his girlfriend enough to let her make her own decision".

Alright, let me explain my issues with the final scenes in the best way that I possibly can.

When you get down to it, there really is only one problem with the final scene. the HOW. How do Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy fix this bump in their relationship? This decision SHOULD have been a tough one. On one hand, Captain Stacy IS RIGHT. Peter Parker's life as Spider-man IS dangerous to Gwen, more so than usually because most villains would be fighting a single guy rather than an entire force. On the other hand, when does one's responsibility end? Is Spider-man, like Batman, doomed out of a relationship because of his powers? What about Gwen's happiness? As you can see, this IS a dilemma. Both sides have a point. Both sides have good and bad things. Both sides have a REAL chance of damage. It in NOT a decision that should be made lightly.

At yet, it is. Without any hiccups in their relationship, they go back into being the "perfect, destined" lovebirds they were in the earlier part of the film. I'm sorry, but that is just as immature as saying "I could hurt you if I stay with you." They didn't RESOLVE the problem, they IGNORED it.

You want to know how the scene would be better? Simple, just show the two of them talking. The audience doesn't need to hear the words, just see them talking. Not snuggling, not kissing, not acting lovey-dovey, just talking. This dilemma is a relational problem, not a personal one. If the last act was them talking (asides from the web-slinging), it would have held its message and resolved the problem with better grace. It would show that Peter is taking responsibility in his part of the relationship by talking to Gwen about his problems. It shows the audience the relationship will be there in the next movie without having to rehash itself. It also shows the relationship getting STRONGER, because those who understand the problems of the other can help overcome such obstacles.

With the ending scene, nothing positive is resolved. Sure the relationship is intact, but at what cost? We now see that Peter is quick to let go of inconvenient promises. Not only that, but this issue of the relationship will (or, at least, should) reappear and weaken the relationship. In the end, this last scene is simply poor and infuriating.

Well, that is my reasoning behind that scene. Hope that explains my annoyances with this movie (For the upteenth time, I LIKED THIS FILM!).

 

[MrFalconfly]

Well I liked it.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

* LOVED Flash not being a complete jerk. If you know the character in the comics, that was such a cool moment.

One of the things I took away from the Spiderman movie was that he was probably one of the most realistic depictions of a bully ever put into a movie. He isn't just unwarranted evil, nor is there some convoluted backstory about abusive parents and a horrible family life to justify him. He is just a guy who can be a dick. My experience of bullies in school was exactly that. They weren't out to get you 24/7, they were just rather hard guys that weren't afraid to chastise you with their fists if you crossed them, but then would be completely cool with you the next day.

You're wanting Parker to be a sort of nerd or geek that, by and large, doesn't exist anymore.

You know what else doesn't exist?

Light Sabers.
Dinosaurs.
Powered armor suits that allow you to fly and shoot freaking LASER BEAMS
Et Cetera

I'd still love seeing movies about all those things. In fact, I'd rather see a movie about those things than beat for beat documentaries about the current teen status quo.

One of the defining characteristics of Peter Parker (at least in my mind) is that he's awkward, nerdy and generally a social outcast... you know, like most of the people reading his books. And even in today's much altered social landscape, it's possible to craft a character who is those things. Put a computer in his room with the World of Warcraft boxes in plain view. Put some Warhammer miniatures around the room, having him hanging out after alone in the photo lab/dark room after school instead of flirting with Gwen on the bleachers. Or, for bonus points, give him a copy of Watchmen (it's not Marvel studios, so a DC reference would be kinda lols)

Even just a dash of physical awkwardness would have helped. Ditch the skateboard and have him trip over his own feet once or twice, at least pre-powers. He's a tall, gangly teenager. Speaking as someone who WAS a tall gangly teenager, that happens all the time.


All that being said, I didn't hate the movie nearly as much as Bob. I agree with most of his broader points... the whole thing is a mess, but it's a reasonably enjoyable mess and it sure as hell beats standing around outside in the Airport-Runway-Melting heat.

I personally don't really think your extra nerding-up was necessary for Peter's character, but I have to say if they had included a bit with him reading "Watchmen" that would have been one of the greatest moments yet in superhero movies.
I like the idea that DC comics are sold in the Marvel universe, especially because of the power upgrade DC has, their superheroes would still be seen as outlandishly strong by a world of X-Men and Avengers.

At the end of the day I have to say I really enjoyed the Spiderman movie. Sure, it wasn't perfect, it had it's cringeworthy moments, but it was a perfectly enjoyable movie, that still managed to bring some new action to the table, while being constrained in retreading Spiderman's orgin story so soon after Raimi did exactly the same thing.

 

[ben---neb]

Well, I agree with Bob on this one.

Not that I can remember much but the villain was rubbish, the character of Peter was all over the place, he didn't develop or grow or learn from anything. The romance took up too much screen time, the action sequences were not great, the subplot about his Dad just vanished anyway, the crane bit was indeed stupid and a hopeless retake of Spidey 1 and his costume did look silly.

I think Bob hit the nail on the head. I watched it and thought it was too soon since the last first spiderman movie which aired eleven years ago!

 

[duchaked]

it really is a case where the film's stylish sexy new look will excite the young audiences right now, but ultimately its shallowness and lack of substance/soul will hurt more down the line
maybe. but whatever it is what it is!

 

[emeraldrafael]

I never really hated any of the first three spiderman movies, and while three was meh in comparison to the first two its very much above this one. the only thing i felt three was lacking was a strong central villian (since they had three good ones to pick from out of Sandman, venom, or the symbiotes itself) and that if they had picked one rather than leaving two first two with too little personality to fill out). especially when one of the biggest complaints against the movie is Mcguire doesnt feel like spiderman especially in the htird and garfield feels even less like spiderman but thats one of this film's praises.

... Plus this film not only fucked up Uncle bens death but now they're fucking with Gwen stacy's character and to me at least thats two major strikes I cant get past.