Escapist Podcast: 109: MMOcast

Remus

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Ahh Everquest corpse runs. Through bloody Kithicor at night, firebeetle eye in hand, to the top of the aviac treehouse in SK, L Guk, and on to City of Mist for my epic quest and Sebilis for that awesome fungi tunic. That game made dying so much fun, up until soulbinding gear became a thing. Then it was just a minor annoyance. My character was a half elf ranger named Temken, the first of a long line of characters with names stemming from obscure book or movie references. Everyone had a Drizzt or an Aragorn or a Legolas. My name was unique. EQ made travelling long distances fun. I quested for my SSoM, chased down the ghoul messenger. I was actually 5th in line to my target so wiped out a camp of ogres that netted me a turtleshell helm as an upgrade. Later my guild took me to get a ykesha. Of course these two blades had the same graphic so people would see me and immediately shout "TWINK!" Though completely untrue, it was good for a chuckle.

In my time playing EQ I went from solo questing, to being guilded with 400+ players casually, on to raiding through PoP. The ranger class never truly found its niche in my time playing, many hybrids shared a similar fate but rangers often had it the worst it seemed. Which made it all the better when occasionally I would surprise people by for instance getting solo exp off a Tunare kill (yes I killed my own god, what of it?) up against a full raid that had no room to spare. So I got to call loot by default teehee.

My time in EQ came to a bitter end when, in the midst of a stagnant raiding guild halfway through the Discord expansion, the lead CS rep chimed in on a DPS balance discussion. My class having taken some lumps, this rep simply replied with something akin to "Why don't you all reroll rogues?" As most MMO players know, with their main character comes a certain attachment, so being told to start over in order to progress further was that last straw and so I bid the game adieu.

Leaving EQ left a bit of a gap in my playtime that I was spending a ton of rental money trying to fill. Vanguard was down the pipe soon so I filled that hole with Guild Wars in the meantime. Decent game but not nearly the social experience Everquest was. I pushed through 2 expansions but after upgradeable hero henchmen, the groupable player pool kinda dried up, and LO! There was Vanguard Saga of Heroes! This was it, Brad McQuaid, back to basics, with better graphics. But this was a modded UE2 engine, which if you've ever tried to make a large map on UE2, you would know that is not what this engine was built for. And I have, so I knew this but still played nonetheless.

So, Vanguard, beautiful game but not optimized. It had the "heroic opportunities" combo system that Brad wanted for EQ but never incorporated, so stronger skills were tied into weaker skills. WoW would also use a similar system. I leveled as one would level, the maps were annotated with their level, the further you get from a city the more dangerous it got, except this game had housing! This game was very rigidly structured. No dual-spec system. If you played a DPS class that's it. If you played a tank class, you were a tank. So even with this structure, the not-optimized game engine, the game still had its charm. I leveled a ranger to raid level wherein my guild came in direct competition with an old EQ guild, Brotherhood of the Spider (first to wake the sleeper don'tcha know). I raided, I conquered. The devs would create new challenges by changing raid mechanics since Vanguard wasn't funded well enough to actually make new content reliably. This eventually forced my guild to leave the game. We killed that dragon one last time and all posed for a screenshot, bent over, pants unequipped, back to the player taking the shot, in front of said dead dragon. There was an odd clothing bug at the time where some characters, namely the large ones, appeared to have no pants when armor was unequipped so it looked as bad as we wanted it. We posted the screenshot to the official forums and we migrated to WoW, where the guild promptly fell apart. I was not a fan at first, preferring more realistic graphics to the cartoony look of WoW's races but I stuck around, having no place to go.

I joined WoW in the midst of the WotLK expansion. I level grinded as one does. This had become old hat up to this point except there was no groupfinder or instance queue so a lot of it was soloing, lest I sit in Orgrimmar spamming tradechat for hours on end. From the second I started raiding in WoW I was not really a fan. I liked it for the lore but building the right spec, and rotation, something that periodically changes with every second patch or so, became akin to my old M:TG days of rebuilding decks when a new set was released, just unnecessary tedium. I liked raiding but maxing out my spec down to the nanosecond, not fun. This is why I always went for more casual raiding guilds, the kind that had fun together but didn't care about arbitrary things like world firsts or guild rank. Over the course of my time in WoW I've been in 3 different raiding guilds and left them all for about the same reason - not the right mix of casual and core. They were too bent on downing content no matter what and would sacrifice members to that end.

As mentioned, I liked the lore in WoW. I liked that it had roots in another gaming genre entirely and would draw on those roots for new release content. This all but fell to the wayside with Pandaria. Sure there was that one pandaran that showed up in Warcraft 3, whatever. It still wasn't a big enough piece of the game to build an expansion around and the transition from Cataclysm to Pandaria simply did not feel organic, more like it was new content for content's sake, so get back on the treadmill. I have only stuck around to see how it ends. I had leveled my rogue to raid with a guild I have now left, and being lv 90 and ready to raid, I want to see why I bothered to level the character at all. After that, it will be time to move to greener pastures.

So I won't confirm or deny whether I have played an MMO based on a long-standing single-player franchise, but if I have it could be inferred that I might purchase this game on its official release date sometime in the future. ;)

*breathes* Sorry bout the wall of text.
 

Henriot

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The only MMO I invested time into was EVE, and I sunk two and a half years into that, running my own corporation with some friends I made in the game and the only reason I stuck around was because they were so much fun to hang out with.

Seeing as everyone else is sharing stories about how certain MMOs are great for X reason, I'll say that one of the more fun and... reactive things I did with my corp was head out to low-LOW security space in preparation for the release of the Noctis blueprints, get one and hike it back to high-sec, dodging blockades and gangs of pirates/corps wanting to monopolise on the blueprints.

Small explanation for those who care: Eve, you make ships from materials via use of a blueprint. If you own a blueprint original (sold from certain NPC corporate owned stations), you can make as many as you want, if you have the materials. But certain NPC corporations focus on certain modules and ships (X corp will do shield items, Y will do armour, Z will do items to boost your speed, that sort of thing). The release of this new ship that everyone wanted was only going to be released by this one corporation, and the only station (therefor the only place you could buy it) was all the way out in pirate controlled territory, so no "police" would help you if someone started attacking you. So, player corporations who knew what would happen set up these massive blockades on the gates on the way to the system where this blueprint was being sold and basically blew up everyone who came along to buy it, presumeably so they could then buy as many of the blueprints as they wanted and sell them back in high-sec for a massive markup. So myself and a band of merry men managed to get in before the blockades were in place due to the foresight of all this, then sneak back home to high-sec to start building this ship and sell them for a massive markup!
 

Crazy Zaul

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In my attempt to play less MMO to have time for console games, I somehow ended up now playing 3 MMOs again... But at least one of them is F2P.
 

StriderShinryu

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No real mention at all of the 3 MMOs I've actually spent time with, but at least this podcast didn't come across to me like the previous one did where it felt like those who were more into the social aspects of the MMO genre were being slapped down for not being hardcore raiders.

My first, and still in many ways favourite, MMO experiences actually came from The Matrix Online. Sadly, it was a MMO that while perfect on paper ended up being run into the ground by overexpectations and terrible management. It was, however, one of the very few MMOs that actually really supported role playing in more than a social gathering sense. By being a strong character and immersing yourself in the world, you could actually become a real part of the world's story, including interacting with major characters on a personal level. The world and story were regularly growing and changing, and logging in felt purposeful even if you were already at level cap and didn't have dailies to grind out because your experience of the world could expand by just "existing" in the world. Plus, the game just looked damn amazing and still holds up well visually even today, especially in the visual spectacle of the interlock combat system.

My current MMO is Guild Wars 2.. which I have recently found myself losing interest with. The combat system which actually requires movement, skill and attention has probably forever positioned me to detest standard MMO combat, though, so I find myself in an ackward place when considering others to try out.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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The Escapist Staff said:
109: MMOcast

This week as promised, we discuss MMO. We talk about everything from MUDs to WildStar.

Watch Video
Despite the problems with dancers/musicians, one thing Star Wars Galaxies really did that no game has done as well since is legitimizing non-combat gameplay. You could be an Armorsmith/Architect, and just make armor and houses and statues... you could track down and harvest your resources, work to get the very best materials and tools, and experiment to get just the right combination of unique stats for your armor, and that could be your full-time play experience.

I liked that, early on, I didn't have to be the savior of the galaxy. I didn't have to be Han Solo to be a smuggler. I didn't have to be Boba Fett to be a bounty hunter. I could just be Steve, the guy that makes hats, and I could still enjoy being a part of the SWG world.

That kind of thing just hasn't happened since. Full-time crafting? Yeah, right. In-world, non-instanced player housing that you can freely decorate using any item in your inventory? Please. All that is gone, because everyone has to be Han Skywalker-Fett, Lord of the Sith, and everything is about combat.
 

bdcjacko

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Jun 9, 2010
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I played a MUD called Dirty MUD, I spammed that thing before spam was invented because I never new what I was suppose to be doing.

I played a bit of Everquest, but again didn't know what I was supposed to doing.

Then I got into Starwars the Old Republic. Finally knew what I was supposed to be doing but then it got feeling all samie. Go here, kill these 30 of these thing for us. 30, really I am suppose to kill 30 imperial saboteurs? That is a lot of people I have to kill. So I kind of got burnt out.
 

Eleima

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Feb 21, 2010
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Glad you guys mentioned Guild Wars, the loot and XP sharing mechanic is really great. Like Deathfish, I'm super surprised that you guys barely touched the Guild Wars franchise. Especially since I remember Justin playing quite a bit of it last year when it was released, even making super useful videos on the gameplay and cooking craft. I'm guessing maybe that's because Justin's the only that's played it?...

The first MMO I ever played was The Realm Online [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Realm_Online] which is still active to this day [http://www.realmserver.com/]. I remember getting killed by rats and how proud I was when I finally reached the level cap of 1,000 on my main character with the beautiful hunter green baldric. I even had two accounts I'd run in parallel, one with my ASGW (all strength giant warrior) and my AIEW (all intelligence elf wizard), and I'd raid the Anvil dungeon and auction off the final chests. Fun times. And the community was great, to boot. Those were the days of ICQ and fighting the family for the phone line...

I completely skipped WoW, interestingly enough. Because I was knee deep in med school, without an internet connection, and because I knew I'd get hooked.

And then I started playing MMOs again, first Guild Wars and then Guild Wars 2, and I was done for. I'm currently on a ten day break, but I'd been playing GW2 on a daily basis since I got it in November.

Unlike Janelle and Greg, I have altitis. I do have a main I'll level, but I love having a myriad of different characters (my GW2 characters include a sylvari elementalist, a human ranger, a norn thief, an asura mesmer, a sylvari engineer, and pretty soon, I'll add a human necromancer, and a warrior - either asura or sylvari).

I thought the question on gender in MMOs was very interesting and thoughtful. I've definitely been mistakenly referred to as "he" numerous times. Like Janelle, it doesn't really bother me, I know it's the "default" pronoun people will go for, and so I just politely correct them (usually with a short "she, not he :)"). I've always played female characters, because, well, I'm female, I identify as female, and if given the chance, I will always choose to play a female character (disclaimer, that doesn't mean I'm adverse to playing male characters, I'll play a male character like Geralt in the Witcher if it makes sense story-wise). I tried creating a male character a few weeks ago in GW2 and ended up using a makeover kit, because he just wasn't *me*. I often call my MMO characters my "kids", but they're actually more like a tiny shard of who I am.
Anyhow, I always play a female character and the only time I did get showered in gifts was like 15 years ago in The Realm Online. Hasn't really happened since.

Anyhow, great MMO cast!! Was nice to have something a bit more focused this time around. I will say, however, that the podcast ended a bit abruptly, without any outro music, that felt weird. =/
 

AldUK

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Oct 29, 2010
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Just wanted to add my voice to those surprised that GW2 was glossed over. Best MMO we've seen in years and it barely gets a mention. Because of that alone I'm not listening to this, you can't do an almost 2 hour podcast on MMOs and ignore the fastest selling Western MMO ever.
 

Henriot

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Eleima said:
I thought the question on gender in MMOs was very interesting and thoughtful. I've definitely been mistakenly referred to as "he" numerous times. Like Janelle, it doesn't really bother me, I know it's the "default" pronoun people will go for, and so I just politely correct them (usually with a short "she, not he :)"). I've always played female characters, because, well, I'm female, I identify as female, and if given the chance, I will always choose to play a female character (disclaimer, that doesn't mean I'm adverse to playing male characters, I'll play a male character like Geralt in the Witcher if it makes sense story-wise). I tried creating a male character a few weeks ago in GW2 and ended up using a makeover kit, because he just wasn't *me*. I often call my MMO characters my "kids", but they're actually more like a tiny shard of who I am.
Any time I play ANYTHING online with avatars and social interaction of some form, I always refer to them by the gender of the avatar. Always makes it interesting when you talk with someone via chat, get used to thinking of them as female because of the avatar, then get into an audio channel with them and they're a baritone man!

Unrelated to that, what's with everyone up in arms about the lack of GW2 discussion? Justin was the only one who played it. It was still mentioned. You're going to limit enjoying content from content creators you (presumably) enjoy?
 

StriderShinryu

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Henriot said:
Eleima said:
I thought the question on gender in MMOs was very interesting and thoughtful. I've definitely been mistakenly referred to as "he" numerous times. Like Janelle, it doesn't really bother me, I know it's the "default" pronoun people will go for, and so I just politely correct them (usually with a short "she, not he :)"). I've always played female characters, because, well, I'm female, I identify as female, and if given the chance, I will always choose to play a female character (disclaimer, that doesn't mean I'm adverse to playing male characters, I'll play a male character like Geralt in the Witcher if it makes sense story-wise). I tried creating a male character a few weeks ago in GW2 and ended up using a makeover kit, because he just wasn't *me*. I often call my MMO characters my "kids", but they're actually more like a tiny shard of who I am.
Any time I play ANYTHING online with avatars and social interaction of some form, I always refer to them by the gender of the avatar. Always makes it interesting when you talk with someone via chat, get used to thinking of them as female because of the avatar, then get into an audio channel with them and they're a baritone man!
That's how I've always handled it as well. If the avatar is male, I refer to both avatar and player as he. If the avatar is female, I refer to both avatar and player as she. At that point, if I'm corrected, I'll go with whatever the player prefers. As a male who often plays female characters, this has generally been how I've been treated as well and it doesn't bother me one bit to be referred to as "she" or "her" when my avatar is clearly female. I'm actually a bit surprised that it seems to be the norm for a female avatar to be referred to as he as I don't recall ever personally enountering that myself.
 

Uriain

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To speak to the "stories from MMO's" I have a couple good ones.

In City of Hero's, I had joined a small supergroup of "saiyan" characters. We went around as a full group - Invuln/SS tanker, Energy/Energy Blaster, Martial arts/regen scrapper (represnts the nameks) and a Empathy/Energy Defender (needed some healing). Had a blast flying all over town and using a combination of super speed/knock ups/knock backs and "power attacks" to recreate battles from the anime.

Second "memorable moment" for me in MMO's was - Camping the FBSS in lower guk (Everquest). Played with my dad and younger brother over the summer. In a week of abject glory (or depravity, your pick) I stayed up for 5 days straight, only moving from my chair to use the washroom/grab more delicious caffeine based products or food. The drop % for FBSS was ultra low, so required a lot of time to get, and we were trying to get 3 (Ogre Shadow Knight, Woodelf Ranger and Gnome Enchanter). I took the "night shift" on the 5th day as we were waiting for our 3rd and final FBSS to drop. 3 boxing the mob spawned, killed him (and the add that appeared) and looted. BOOM new FBSS. Made the run back to the entrance (thank you fear/controlling spells), and ran everyone to a safe area. Feeling pretty happy with myself and "energized" by the accomplishment, I switched toons and jumped onto my Iksar Necromancer "Skinan Dbones" to level him up a bit. I then apparently passed out.

I awoke 20 hours later, still at my keyboard, smelling bbq chicken and hearing the familiar "clickity click clack" of fingers typing on keyboards, and my dad repeatedly saying "Stop breaking the &#%!ing Mez on that mob, your screwing up my rotation. I, blurry eyed and disoriented, reached for a bottle of water and asked how long I had slept for as I saw they finished the fight. Both Father and brother turned around and started howling with laughter. I had apparently hit the keyboard so hard when I passed out, and then didn't move from that position, that the letter "jkl;" were imprinted on my forhead. *shakes fist* damn you raised letter keyboards... damn you!
 

Kae

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Odd that you mention getting confused with a guy, I always get confused with a girl, not sure why since I normally play guys but people just seem to assume I'm a girl, it's OK though I don't mind don't really care about it I just find it funny.
As for MMO stories, I don't have that many I'm not really a people person so if I play them it's normally by myself.
 

Eleima

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Henriot said:
Unrelated to that, what's with everyone up in arms about the lack of GW2 discussion? Justin was the only one who played it. It was still mentioned. You're going to limit enjoying content from content creators you (presumably) enjoy?
Wait a sec, I'm not "up in arms" about anything! I merely pointed out that seeing how big GW2 is, that it's a shame that they didn't mention it more extensively, but that I understood why they didn't, because I recalled that Justin was the only one who'd played it! :) Far be it from me to cast any stones! Who says I'm going to stop listening to the podcast because of that?!? Laughable, I say! :D
 

Henriot

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Eleima said:
Wait a sec, I'm not "up in arms" about anything! I merely pointed out that seeing how big GW2 is, that it's a shame that they didn't mention it more extensively, but that I understood why they didn't, because I recalled that Justin was the only one who'd played it! :) Far be it from me to cast any stones! Who says I'm going to stop listening to the podcast because of that?!? Laughable, I say! :D
Hehe, that was unrelated to your post (and I know you to be a fellow podcat rabid enthusiast). Was more directed at AldUK.
 

Sara Ivette

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I had never heard of WildStar and Pathfinder Online before but now I'm sold. Not much of an MMO player but those two definitely appeal to my interests.
 

Eleima

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Henriot post= said:
Hehe, that was unrelated to your post (and I know you to be a fellow podcat rabid enthusiast). Was more directed at AldUK.
Gotcha! :) You quoted me specifically, even though in your defense you did say "somewhat unrelated", so that's what confused me. :D
And yes, I do listen to the podcat religiously. ^_^