European Street Protest Against ACTA Draws Over 30,000

[Thedutchjelle]

Well, it finally happened- Germany is apparently going to be the ones to save Europe this time. I'm royally pissed at the UK media for not reporting this AT ALL though. Seriously, AFAIK ACTA could pass into law tomorrow and the average Briton wouldn't know about it all.

I saw it get maybe 10 lines in total in the newspapers I read. Dutch media is not covering this /at all/.

 

[Rosa Razvan]

I'm glad I read the comments, because I was angry about the 30 000 number given in the article.
There were about 1000 in my small town in romania I bet there were more than 500k on the streets in the whole Europe.
At least USA proposed sopa it in autumn, here they signed it behind closed doors in the cold wave with -20 degrees C. I still have the flue I got there.

 

[darksuccubus]

If they want to protest against ACTA they should've done it years ago when their country's respective copyright laws were passed seeing as this does NOTHING but put an international standard on them that the signing countries already hold.

It's intent was to get more problem countries like China on board. SOPA was setting a dangerous precedent but if ACTA sets a dangerous precedent just by having the opportunity to start an international standard on this stuff then how in the world are governments ever supposed to fight piracy individually?

The biggest loophole pirates are moving towards is jurisdiction. I mean look at the Megaupload case how people were crying foul about the U.S.'s jurisdiction when the Megaupload guys were committing those kind of mafia style crimes online so it doesn't matter where the servers are located since they function the exact same if they're in the U.S. or Europe or anywhere else.

An international agreement on this kind of thing is needed because of how international piracy is. No country acting alone will be able to enact any kind of effective tactic without stomping all over freedom of speech.

Pirates aren't evil, they're fucking heroes. I don't have the money to buy the games/movies I want, especially considering that my country's currency is shit. Even though I live in EU, my country doesn't have euros and yet they still charge full euro price. So no, I'm not ashamed for pirating, these are the people that actually buy the product and then share it with the rest of us that don't have the funds.
OT: Too bad I'm studying in UK now, would gladly protest in my town (it's even on the map now, last time I checked, our country had protests only in the capital)

 

[Nikolaz72]

If they want to protest against ACTA they should've done it years ago when their country's respective copyright laws were passed seeing as this does NOTHING but put an international standard on them that the signing countries already hold.

It's intent was to get more problem countries like China on board. SOPA was setting a dangerous precedent but if ACTA sets a dangerous precedent just by having the opportunity to start an international standard on this stuff then how in the world are governments ever supposed to fight piracy individually?

The biggest loophole pirates are moving towards is jurisdiction. I mean look at the Megaupload case how people were crying foul about the U.S.'s jurisdiction when the Megaupload guys were committing those kind of mafia style crimes online so it doesn't matter where the servers are located since they function the exact same if they're in the U.S. or Europe or anywhere else.

An international agreement on this kind of thing is needed because of how international piracy is. No country acting alone will be able to enact any kind of effective tactic without stomping all over freedom of speech.

What do you think about ACTA's affect on the medicinal industry? Do you know why Doctors Without Borders and Red Cross is against it? (Do you even know they are against it?) It goes beyond 'just' the internet. Theese guys are fighting to enforce a monopoly and control in all industry's by making theese expanded copyright enforcements. Even a medicine suspected to be infringing even though the patent on the product has expired years ago, will have to halt from being used. Youknow, the biggest problem is not people crying foul with Megaupload, but people defending theese Megacorporations attempt at gaining a monopoly using the bad guys everyone hates as an excuse, its merely a scheme to take out smaller companies in order to increase the wealth of those who are already rich by giving -them- control. World Trade Center-esque organization with all the top-hats of each their field enforcing this thing? Yea its gonna end well, indeed. Im personally happy that Europe is against it, theres a step between censoring pirate-bay and delivering our citizens to the US and having our businesses shot down by Megacorps of the US. The big guys arent supporting this for things such as Morality, dont fool yourself. The politicians -might- but even that is very unlikely. This here is a scheme to further their wealth, pirates getting taken down is a bonus. But people who say ACTA is 'only' about piracy are just fooling themself. Its an international copyright-enforcement law. It counts for what is physical aswell as what is digital.

 

[Atmos Duality]

If anyone wants to quote me and mention 'free speech', then I suggest you look up what 'free speech' means first. Also, any of you who want to talk about 'the freedom of information' should just ignore me. Cause I know what you are talking about is just fucking BS excuses for piracy.

I'm not going to press the point directly on "free speech" immediately, but freedom of criticism and interpretation.

As it pertains to the Internet: The DMCA implemented a point called "Fair Use" that would get steamrolled under a system of absolute IP control (which is in part what the ACTA/SOPA supporters want), and without criticism, that whole "standing on your own merits" doesn't really work because nobody is allowed to criticize the work in detail; just in generalities.

We employ this concept of "fair use" not solely as an excuse for piracy, but as a fundamental method of refining our culture and technique as we have since the days of Plato (from one medium to another). Open criticism and the refining of concepts is too important to society to be discarded, and I argue that this in retrospective, forms the basic principle of why "free speech" is necessary.

But if that's the cost you want to pay, that's your opinion, and I simply disagree with it.
Giving wealthy, for-profit companies that kind of legal leverage over what is the last form of cheap, efficient mass-communication is a recipe for disaster.

Piracy is a problem of the present, I know; but suppression of Free Speech is a far larger problem for both the present and the future since information is useless if nobody can apply it. Or in this case, few.

 

[Vkmies]

WAIT! There are Acta-protest in SOUTHERN FINLAND? WHERE THE HELL WAS I? God damnit, I need to check this out in greater detail so I can take part...

 

[RoonMian]

It can, but it shouldnt, nor does it want it in any way. signing papers of peace has little meaning in times of war. only the big boy countries like america and china get profits from war alright? no one else does. war is always bad for a nation, except if youre america for example, and your business IS war.

No, it cannot!

Besides that the acting German constitution prohibits going to an offensive war with another country in an article that is not changable the German army has no command structure outside of the NATO. So as I said before without an ally of Germany being attacked and thus without a NATO mandate the German army doesn't know where to march to.

Awesome "experts" here.

 

[Xifel]

Between Sweden, Finland, and Germany, which would be the easiest to emigrate to?

Would say Germany, but it basically impossible to get citizenship if you don't have a Germanic ancestor you can prove his existence.

Sweden got heavy tax for immigrant, even before you have a job, so better find a job or have saving before moving there.

Finland no idea.

Findland's taxes are very high, mostly to pay off the very extensive social welfare system they have (you can retire at 50), although immigration seams easier than Sweden and Germany.

You also forgot to mention even if you do get full citizenship in Sweden, you STILL have a very heavy tax to tend with.

The bonus with sweden is that you can go to norway & denmark and finland and speak swedish and they will understand you and they will get annoyed that you will not understand them

The swedish tax is: [http://www.taxrates.cc/html/sweden-tax-rates.html]
Sweden
Income Tax Rate 57.77%

Sweden
Corporate Tax Rate 26.3%

Sweden
VAT Rate 25%

Finlands tax is: [http://www.taxrates.cc/html/finland-tax-rates.html]

Finland
Income Tax Rate 51%

Finland
Corporate Tax Rate 26%

Finland
Sales Tax / VAT Rate 23%

I have no idea how these people count, but in reality it's between around 25-30% income tax in Sweden. Maybe they count the employeer fee, but that's money you won't see anyway...

Im guessing they are counting how much the corporations pays, but it's higher then 25-30% in Sweden if you have a good salary (my Father pays around 43% if I do not recall wrong)

You pay higher tax on an amount over a certain amount. Average tax payer do not pay state tax, you only pay that if you are over a number, like 35000 SEK/month. You still have a normal tax for all the money under that amount. I think it is like that anyway, I could remember it wrong.

Also the number could be an avarage because people with insane income also tax very very much...

 

[MrTub]

Between Sweden, Finland, and Germany, which would be the easiest to emigrate to?

Would say Germany, but it basically impossible to get citizenship if you don't have a Germanic ancestor you can prove his existence.

Sweden got heavy tax for immigrant, even before you have a job, so better find a job or have saving before moving there.

Finland no idea.

Findland's taxes are very high, mostly to pay off the very extensive social welfare system they have (you can retire at 50), although immigration seams easier than Sweden and Germany.

You also forgot to mention even if you do get full citizenship in Sweden, you STILL have a very heavy tax to tend with.

The bonus with sweden is that you can go to norway & denmark and finland and speak swedish and they will understand you and they will get annoyed that you will not understand them

The swedish tax is: [http://www.taxrates.cc/html/sweden-tax-rates.html]
Sweden
Income Tax Rate 57.77%

Sweden
Corporate Tax Rate 26.3%

Sweden
VAT Rate 25%

Finlands tax is: [http://www.taxrates.cc/html/finland-tax-rates.html]

Finland
Income Tax Rate 51%

Finland
Corporate Tax Rate 26%

Finland
Sales Tax / VAT Rate 23%

I have no idea how these people count, but in reality it's between around 25-30% income tax in Sweden. Maybe they count the employeer fee, but that's money you won't see anyway...

Im guessing they are counting how much the corporations pays, but it's higher then 25-30% in Sweden if you have a good salary (my Father pays around 43% if I do not recall wrong)

You pay higher tax on an amount over a certain amount. Average tax payer do not pay state tax, you only pay that if you are over a number, like 35000 SEK/month. You still have a normal tax for all the money under that amount. I think it is like that anyway, I could remember it wrong.

Also the number could be an avarage because people with insane income also tax very very much...

You are correct, and I was a bit wrong about how much tax he pays.

I found a good website (in swedish) were you can calculate about how much you pay in tax and what it goes too

http://www.ekonomifakta.se/sv/Fakta/Skatter/Rakna-pa-dina-skatter/Rakna-ut-din-skatt/

 

[Xenowolf]

Well, it finally happened- Germany is apparently going to be the ones to save Europe this time. I'm royally pissed at the UK media for not reporting this AT ALL though. Seriously, AFAIK ACTA could pass into law tomorrow and the average Briton wouldn't know about it all.

I've seen it reported on the BBC News website, but not on TV.

 

[dickywebster]

I think this bill would be less scary is they actually said what was in it, and as a EU country, theres a high chance of it been forced on me by the european parliment as the british governments track record for asking the british people about changes the EU wants to make is almost none existant...