Evolution & Atheism... Is it really more plausible?

[AngloDoom]

Wait, just a second here.

How can people say they are Christian and believe in evolution? If the Bible says "God made man", then God made man, right? It doesn't say "God made chimps and then left them a while in a pre-heated oven then let them settle over night to become man". How exactly can both viewpoints be supported?

I'm not at all religious and I'm not trying to catch anyone out here; I genuinely want to know the reasons behind this. Most of the people I knew who were Christian seemed to twist the Bible to a 'one-size-fits-all' explanation of the world and would quite happily contradict themselves and their gospel to win an argument, so you'll have to forgive me if I seem pessimistic when I ask how that makes sense.

It just strikes me as choosing particular parts of the Bible to take literally, while others as 'symbolic', but only when it makes it fills in the blanks. My personal view is that Christianity was a set of stories made by man or woman for moral guidance rather than the words of a deity; but somewhere along the line I also think people took advantage of this and used it as a method of control and false justification.

 

[traceur_]

Ah, another religion thread. I could of course once again say everyone can believe what they want and trying to bash other people's beliefs (or even a proven biological concept) is completely pointless. I'm pretty tired of that though, so instead I just respond with a picture of a kitten:

I think that's the most sensible thing in this entire thread.

Seriously, can we stop this bullshit?

 

[eels05]

I'm still left wondering at the effort put in by religious fundamentalists to attemt to disprove Evolution.

Evolution makes no attempt to unthrone God as creator of all things.

Evolution as I understand it dosen't even go anywhere near what came before life on Earth.

To properly answer the OP,yes from what I've read about Evolution it makes more sense as an explanation that those offered by theists.

 

[US Crash Fire]

you'd think atheists would not have a religious bias twords anyone and be more open minded but all of the atheists i have ever met have always told me how stupid and ignorant i was for being a christian (lutheran. AKA catholic lite) and how i deserved to be ripped on for it. all they did was insult my inteligence and try to degrade me. even my roomate and friend for the last 5 years who was catholic and recently converted to atheism did this to me! this made little sense to me. i have had friends who are muslim, buhdist and pagan who did not care that i was a christian because i was cool with them and they were cool with me. (except for my pagan friend ripping on me every christmas because he said we were celebrating the same holiday.) the point is i have no problem with atheits and i do NOT wish to convert anyone. im not a religious nut job. hell, i dont even go to a church. but i would like to know why all the atheists i have met seem to have a sense that they are better than everyone else. i am sure this is not the case for all atheists but if anyone has any answers let me know.

 

[Bored Tomatoe]

... Really, are you serious...

 

[Shock and Awe]

Both Atheism and Theism are leaps of faith, just in different directions.

 

[tsb247]

Religion and science will never coexist peacefully, because you have the two strongest fundamental aspects of human nature: faith, and truth. Do not flame me because I say truth, or I will force you to ride the triceratops with the fucking saddle. What I mean is, science gives answers and satisfies the human need for knowledge. We need to know WHY things are. Hence why Amelia Earhart is still studied even though all she was was some chick who crashed a plane. We don't know what happened, so we need to find out. Faith on the other hand gives a different sort of knowledge. Rather than breaking things down into their little bits, they look at a bigger picture that seems to explain things. Hence, faith. It's fire and water, the two cannot exist in the same place, which is why quite frankly we should stop bothering with this discussion.

Now watch as ten people quote lines from my post out of context and point out how I'm wrong.

Actually, I would rather quote your post to point out how right you are. Science and faith will probably never agree, and even though the two can intermingle at times, they usually do not blend well together.

My grandmother said the wisest thing to me a few years ago when I asked her of her views on teach evolution in schools. Keep in mind that my grnadmother is one of the most religious people I know, and she regularly teaches a Bible study once a week.

When asked, "Do you think we should be teaching evolution in schools?" she replied, "Yes, because creation is not science. We go to school to learn how to read and write as well as to learn mathematics and science." Well, that's not exactly it, but she said something along those lines.

Personally, I believe in the whole 'kickstart' philosophy as mentioned above, but whatever...

 

[Spleenbag]

My view? We had single-celled organisms, and God was the catalyst for multiple-celled organisms to begin appearing. As soon as that happened, he sat back and let evolution take place.

Other people in here have stated similar things, I believe. Not going to go find the quotes though.

 

[Zacharine]

you'd think atheists would not have a religious bias twords anyone and be more open minded but all of the atheists i have ever met have always told me how stupid and ignorant i was for being a christian (lutheran. AKA catholic lite) and how i deserved to be ripped on for it. all they did was insult my inteligence and try to degrade me. even my roomate and friend for the last 5 years who was catholic and recently converted to atheism did this to me! this made little sense to me. i have had friends who are muslim, buhdist and pagan who did not care that i was a christian because i was cool with them and they were cool with me. (except for my pagan friend ripping on me every christmas because he said we were celebrating the same holiday.) the point is i have no problem with atheits and i do NOT wish to convert anyone. im not a religious nut job. hell, i dont even go to a church. but i would like to know why all the atheists i have met seem to have a sense that they are better than everyone else. i am sure this is not the case for all atheists but if anyone has any answers let me know.

I used to be a lutheran christian before becoming an atheist.

The reason for your dilemma is simple: The change to atheism does not alter ones personality. If one was arrogant and know-it-all while religious, it doesn't change with 'conversion' to atheism. Or if one was raised to believe that all christians are dunderheads and illogical idiots, then that is what the person will likely continue to think to their adult lives.

I personally have many friends who are buddhists, lutheran christians, I know some catholics and even a fundie christian who is a YEC! I am not their friend because or in spite of their beliefs, but because they are my friends, I like their company and we have fun times together. Likewise, I've come across atheists who think that just because they have shed their former beliefs they are now suddenly the kings of the universe.

Personality and religiosity (or lackthereof) are not tied together. We atheists can be just as discriminating bunch of people as anyone else. After all, atheism is only lack of belief in any god, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[randomrob]

To the OP

for fucks sake, would you kindly read a book you moron and learn from countless people saying 'don't start religion threads'.
And don't come out with a gay-arse answer like 'I did read a book, The Bible! Tehehehehehe'.

 

[bluepilot]

The best explanation of evolution that I ever heard was on `south park` `go God go`

Evolution is something that is explained in over-simplisctic terms, made even simpler by the press and thus I think everyone`s individual idea of evolution becomes rather warped.

Evolution does not call for an act of Faith, it calls out for more research and proper understanding into the nature of life.

 

[US Crash Fire]

you'd think atheists would not have a religious bias twords anyone and be more open minded but all of the atheists i have ever met have always told me how stupid and ignorant i was for being a christian (lutheran. AKA catholic lite) and how i deserved to be ripped on for it. all they did was insult my inteligence and try to degrade me. even my roomate and friend for the last 5 years who was catholic and recently converted to atheism did this to me! this made little sense to me. i have had friends who are muslim, buhdist and pagan who did not care that i was a christian because i was cool with them and they were cool with me. (except for my pagan friend ripping on me every christmas because he said we were celebrating the same holiday.) the point is i have no problem with atheits and i do NOT wish to convert anyone. im not a religious nut job. hell, i dont even go to a church. but i would like to know why all the atheists i have met seem to have a sense that they are better than everyone else. i am sure this is not the case for all atheists but if anyone has any answers let me know.

I used to be a lutheran christian before becoming an atheist.

The reason for your dilemma is simple: The change to atheism does not alter ones personality. If one was arrogant and know-it-all while religious, it doesn't change with 'conversion' to atheism. Or if one was raised to believe that all christians are dunderheads and illogical idiots, then that is what the person will likely continue to think to their adult lives.

I personally have many friends who are buddhists, lutheran christians, I know some catholics and even a fundie christian who is a YEC! I am not their friend because or in spite of their beliefs, but because they are my friends, I like their company and we have fun times together. Likewise, I've come across atheists who think that just because they have shed their former beliefs they are now suddenly the kings of the universe.

Personality and religiosity (or lackthereof) are not tied together. We atheists can be just as discriminating bunch of people as anyone else. After all, atheism is only lack of belief in any god, nothing more, nothing less.

finally! someone who gets me!
thanks for your help it explains a lot. my friend who converted was a know it all bastard before he ws an atheist. he just never acted like that to me because we used to think the same. so i never noticed untill he acted like that to me! also im in california right now where people are jackasses anyway no matter what belief system they use. man, a major light just went on in my head.
thank God....or maybe not.

 

[Zacharine]

Hasn't evolution been proven through Genetics and Heredity (or whatever that science is called, since I am too tired to think aat the moment)? I'm not sure how everything began, but I find adaptation and evolution more plausible than a bearded man in the sky making things.

Evolution has not been proven, as in science it is inherently impossible to prove anything for certain. That is why the highest form of truth is a 'Theory'.

Why? Because just due to the sun rising every single day in the past is no guarantee that it will rise tomorrow. We can only gather evidence, find the facts and build models of them and test these models. So far the theory of evolution has yet to fail a single test.

Evolution has been 'proven' (as far as anything can) by genetics, morphology, geneology, palenteology and is supprted even by geology. Several independent courses of study from a multitude of scientific fields have arrived at the same conclusion.

So really, trusting the theory of evolution is a good idea, because nothing in biology makes sense without it.

 

[Icedshot]

on an earlier post, does anyone realise that evolution is accepted by the christian leaders, even the pope?

 

[MrSnugglesworth]

Face, meet Palm.


Hi there! Its nice to meet you!

WAAAAAAAPPP!

 

[The_Echo]

I'm deist, but I believe in the Christian God. Therefore, I don't believe the Bible is as accurate as it's claimed. I'm also into the Intelligent Design idea. So, yeah evolution is plausible, but it had to start somewhere.

Damn, as i rolled past the Deist claim my respect for you was growing (I have an innate respect for Deists, don't ask why) and it hit its crescendo at the Bible line. But then sank through my shoes when you mentioned intelligent design. You should probably know that intelligent design proponents aren't quite the people you think they are.

Here is a cell biologist explaining Intelligent design as we know of it in America. I realize that you probably mean a 'God starts evolution' sort of thing. But as it is known in the scientific communities 'intelligent design' is just creationism in disguise.

http://fora.tv/2008/08/18/Kenneth_Miller_on_Evolution_and_Intelligent_Design

Yeah, "God starts evolution" was where I was headed, and I used my basic knowledges to explain it... It didn't occur to me to look more into my claims.

 

[Mikkaddo]

Wait, just a second here.

How can people say they are Christian and believe in evolution? If the Bible says "God made man", then God made man, right? It doesn't say "God made chimps and then left them a while in a pre-heated oven then let them settle over night to become man". How exactly can both viewpoints be supported?

Here's an easy way to explain it, God made the monkeys with the plan being that they would grow upright, gain knowledge, and evolve along a path he's decided on. As long as they use the signs he gives them.

There, God made monkeys that got smart, some of them stayed in the trees for the same reason that every family has idiots. Some of us missed our signs, some of us saw them.

(*still not Christian)

 

[Sightless Wisdom]

Are you fucked in the head?

Right,so by now I'm sure you've realised(or had to deny) that your wrong about a great many things you said. But I'd like to add that we really, REALLY don't need these threads. While I usually enjoy discussing things like this, The Escapist is not the place. Now, so you don't quote me for being absoloutley useless to the thread, some more substance for my post:

Personally I'm an Atheist, and a strong beleiver of evoloution. Now I'd like to point out that evoloution is indeed provable, it has been proven, but it is still called a theory. The key word,obviously, is called. This is because a once a theory is proven, it is still called a theory. Theory, is not a synonym for speculation, nor assumption, or any other such word. To be so naive as to deny that evoloution has been proven after you've been presented with so much evidence and intelligent response, is pure ignorance.

And with that, I'm done.

 

[Diablini]

I will not touch and of your "religions". I have an alternative.

Oh, Almighty Spaghetti Monster! Let there be enough pasta on our table and wine in our glass.....

 

[Bigeyez]

Wait, just a second here.

How can people say they are Christian and believe in evolution? If the Bible says "God made man", then God made man, right? It doesn't say "God made chimps and then left them a while in a pre-heated oven then let them settle over night to become man". How exactly can both viewpoints be supported?

I'm not at all religious and I'm not trying to catch anyone out here; I genuinely want to know the reasons behind this. Most of the people I knew who were Christian seemed to twist the Bible to a 'one-size-fits-all' explanation of the world and would quite happily contradict themselves and their gospel to win an argument, so you'll have to forgive me if I seem pessimistic when I ask how that makes sense.

It just strikes me as choosing particular parts of the Bible to take literally, while others as 'symbolic', but only when it makes it fills in the blanks. My personal view is that Christianity was a set of stories made by man or woman for moral guidance rather than the words of a deity; but somewhere along the line I also think people took advantage of this and used it as a method of control and false justification.

But in either case wouldn't have God created man? Why can't both statements be true?

All religion is, is a justification of whats around us. Religions change to fit society. Your trying to rationalize something thats irrational.

Theres no reason both viewpoints can't be supported. Just because evolution exists doesn't mean God doesn't. Remember God and religions in general are things that cannot be proven or disproven. The Church simply acknowledges Evolution as a means to an end.

The ONLY people who can't accept both evolution and religion are those that take biblical stories literally and those people are actually the minority in the many Catholic/Christian divisions.

--------------------------

Edit: Let me talk about this quote specifically

"Bible to a 'one-size-fits-all' explanation of the world"

At the end of the day THATS EXACTLY WHAT RELIGION IS!! (caps are to emphasize my point, not to shout at you)

ALL Religions, since the beginning of time, are meant to explain the world to their society/believers. That is way religons change over time. Thats why the bible we have today has been heavily edited over the years. Thats why many come to understand the bible today in many different ways. Religion is malleable, fluid, ready but not always willing to change.
So really no matter what science discovers tomorrow, religion will always be here. It will simply change to adapt to whatever humanity needs it to be.