Evolving the Superhero MMO

[DaxStrife]

I love that idea of having Issues instead of Levels. Having a personal log of your accomplishments and game-story events by Issue would be a great way to develop an actual character in a game (putting the RPG back into MMORPG). That's part of what killed City of Heroes for me: people became more interested in the powersets and making "toons" *shudder* than characters.

 

[Wargamer]

On this "epic loot" subject, I just cannot see what all the fuss is about.

People claim how "badass" their character looks on WoW, but I don't see Badass. I see a fuck-ugly Ork in fuck-ugly neon pink armour.

This is the problem I have with several online games - I don't want to have to dress like the Class Retard in order to do well. I want a wide selection of items that give excellent boosts to my stats, but also look the part.

As such, someone like me is going to favour the "Hero" MMO, where your character's costume has no purpose other than to look absolutely awesome.

WoW is never going to impress me with it's utterly spastic "Epic" armour... but by god, if anyone released a game as is described in this article, I would buy it in an instant.

 

[Fenixius]

When you fight off the Giant Monster, or help put out the Fire a dozen times, you should get maybe a giant tooth, or a fire hat. Or something. Graphical rewards for doing all of these things, in addition to the paltry little achievements you get.

Already happens in CoX. Since about Issue 10.

Never got a headpiece for it. Got a badge, though.

--Fen

 

[WhiteTiger225]

When you fight off the Giant Monster, or help put out the Fire a dozen times, you should get maybe a giant tooth, or a fire hat. Or something. Graphical rewards for doing all of these things, in addition to the paltry little achievements you get.

Heres my idea for loot. You loot MATERIALS. now, henchmen won't have much besides regular to uncommon material types (Bullet proof vests, leather jackets, etc), so this is hwere boss fights come in. Anywhere from Minor Villians, to Supreme overlords of evil.

Already happens in CoX. Since about Issue 10.

NOT really to the degree I am talking about. I am talking about combining said materials for a new outfit, armor, etc with stats based on said items, then you move on to adding symbols, patterns, and colors to the upgraded piece of equipment. Unlike CoX, where you start off already looking like your ready to star on the cover of oyur own comic, minus the cape and aura, in my way, you would start off with a red sweater with a sitched on symbol and a crude crochet mask (This would appear GRAPHICALLY as well!) and as time goes on, you will look like Thor in his full asgardian armor, which just doesn't really happen in CoX. and honestly, if you want to roleplay out starting out awesome at issue 5, then know what? Theres PLENTY of roleplay servers run by players out there, go have a blast, but we here in the actual GAME want to have fun actually working our way towards something besides a level.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

When you fight off the Giant Monster, or help put out the Fire a dozen times, you should get maybe a giant tooth, or a fire hat. Or something. Graphical rewards for doing all of these things, in addition to the paltry little achievements you get.

Already happens in CoX. Since about Issue 10.

Never got a headpiece for it. Got a badge, though.

I thought you got a hat as well as the firehose pack? Been three years since I last played though.

Theres PLENTY of roleplay servers run by players out there, go have a blast, but we here in the actual GAME want to have fun actually working our way towards something besides a level.

This is one of the big problems. The PvP crowd and the RP crowd loathed each other, as they did in most other MMO games. While I get what you're talking about now WhiteTiger, you have seen how much people have been moaning about trying to get a hat in TF2?

It would all end in tears.

 

[John Scott Tynes]

Excellent discussion guys, thanks. And to be clear, I can't say that I think superhero games *should* add epic loot that are visible on your character. But it is an expectation people have from WoW and other games, and the superhero genre is kind of antithetical to it due to the costume thing, so it's an interesting dilemma to consider.

Mostly I just want to rename "levels" to "issues". Mmmm.

Onmi: NOT MY BALLS NO! I've always been confused about Captain Marvel/Shazam and it's because I watched this cartoon as a kid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kid_Superpower_Hour_with_Shazam!

They called him Captain Marvel in the episodes but the freaking title and theme song both said "... with Shazam!" like that was his name. And it was a catchy jingle, too. I can still hear it, haunting my dreams. SHAZAM!

 

[Fenixius]

Already happens in CoX. Since about Issue 10.

Never got a headpiece for it. Got a badge, though.

I thought you got a hat as well as the firehose pack? Been three years since I last played though.

Naaah, no headpiece. You got the Fire Pack temporary power, which was an awesome idea that I loved, and that was it. Roleplaying saving the burning building was one of the most fun ways I had of pulling in random people to roleplay with me, so don't get me wrong - I loved it. I felt very very superhero-y.

But that was just an example. Flipping to City of Villains - how about I get a cosmetic Goldbrickers' Jetpack when I kill a bunch of them, or off their boss, or something? That'd be great! It'd work just like the rocket boots, or angel wings. You wouldn't -get- to fly just by having it, but it'd always be on your character. And you can re-skin it, too! That way, you've taken their gear, painted it in your colours, and now you're ready to go show them how they should have been using it.

Theres PLENTY of roleplay servers run by players out there, go have a blast, but we here in the actual GAME want to have fun actually working our way towards something besides a level.

This is one of the big problems. The PvP crowd and the RP crowd loathed each other, as they did in most other MMO games. While I get what you're talking about now WhiteTiger, you have seen how much people have been moaning about trying to get a hat in TF2?

It would all end in tears.

First of all, I -really- want a hat in TF2. I play certain classes an absurd amount, so I'd love hats for them.

But that's ANOTHER thread. Now, tell you what. PvP people have tons of MMO's which support their playstyles inherently. I'm thinking Warhammer, here. Let's have a proper Roleplaying one. ...I don't want to have to think of a way to dole out XP for roleplaying right now, since I have work soon, but I'm sure that'd be a great exercise. How to make a roleplaying videogame. A proper one.

Still, again, another thread. What I'd be really overjoyed to see is just more ways of making my character my own, and marking his history on him visually. Fable and Fable 2 had an interesting way of doing this - you got scarred when you failed, or took big hits. Your appearance also changed based on your playstyle. You even got trophies in that game (although not to wear or wield)!

Having epic loot on your character really shows people that you're a successful raider/dungeoneer/whatever, and that you can fight well. This ties into the central idea of John's Hard Problem - that Superhero games didn't have a way to show that off. But I think it's something that's a problem in all MMO's. At least, all I've ever played. So, to amp it up, and put it more in the players' hands how they look, you could do stuff like have esoteric gear for finishing long side-quests, and reputation gear (MORE THAN JUST A TABARD, THANKYOU) for earning reputation with a faction. Hell, let's tie some factions together to make super-factions, and give the super-factions some equally epic gear for you to have as raiding nets you. Again, I'm not just thinking superhero games, but any MMO. How joyous I'd be if The Old Republic took some of this mentality on board.

In short: I'm sick of being Blood Elf Paladin #42681. Let me make my character my own!

Excellent discussion guys, thanks. And to be clear, I can't say that I think superhero games *should* add epic loot that are visible on your character. But it is an expectation people have from WoW and other games, and the superhero genre is kind of antithetical to it due to the costume thing, so it's an interesting dilemma to consider.

Mostly I just want to rename "levels" to "issues". Mmmm.

Well, you get some good discussion because you write good articles. Keep it up, and I'm sure I'll comment again. And like I said - it's not just a WoW thing. I really eat up the idea of character customisation, -especially- if the aesthetics are divided completely from the combat skill. Screw you PvP guys; I want to look awesome AND be awesome. Not just one.

--Fen

 

[Fenixius]

The problem with optional costume upgrades is that it makes it hard for players to spot you and your power at a distance. This is a major issue in PvP, because being able to visually identify and react to the enemy is half of the battle. In WoW, if I can't judge a player by the hat on his head or the bling on his bod, I can't plan for the fight. When I see a rogue in a terrorblade hat, I know (knew, really, I don't mind them being more accesible nowdays but it does reduce the 'indication-of-badass' factor) i'm about to tangle with a certain kind of foe.

When a high-issue can wander around appearing as a newb, it removes a factor that would be even more essential in a Heroes game, where classes are only loosely defined and the ability to identify players is going to be ever more essential. I like the levelling up of the costume, though, I think it's a fantastic idea that would make the evolution of the hero really mean something... but unless it's mandatory you'll run into problems.

These are valid concerns. Especially in the hero-style game, where it's all about customisation. But really, PvP in a hero game is a very different beast than a fantasy game. If you ever see something like Superman, how are you going to size up his abilities at all? He's flying, okay. He's got a cape... and... that's about it for "visually distinctive". Or The Flash. Iron Man, a little easier, since his suit is his weapon, but a lot of the time, it's impossible. So it has to boil down to how confident you are in your character.

If we stick to the old style, support PvP at the expense of other gameplay elements which could potentially really elevate the game above other games, then we're letting a small subset of the players outweigh and limit the rest.

I mean, ideally, I'd love to see a game without classes, where you have points and pick skills. I think Champions might be like that, but I'm unsure. In such a system, how would you expect to tell what sort of enemy you face, when there're not class-limited items?

--Fen

 

[Disembodied_Dave]

I like this idea of levels being called "issues." Though it doesn't quite fit. I mean you can do servel missions over a course of a level. But still. it's a cute idea.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Mostly I just want to rename "levels" to "issues". Mmmm.

Unfortunately, that's the name Cryptic tends to use for it's updates.

 

[Typhron]

I can't really add anything that hasn't already been said by the author of the article or my fellow commenters here. Really.

I did type out some tl;dr Thing to the effect of "Balancing an MMO in any aspect is like finding a straw of hay in a needlestack", but I summed it up in a single sentence and wished I saved myself the 10 to 20 minutes it took me to type it all out.