i never looked at the god of war series like that and though i love all the games i have to agree completely with what was said the story really loses what made the character...human
Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value
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Love the videos, but I must say I have a different inturputationof the GOW games.
Spoilers of course
I never got a redemtion vibe from the first game. I got the impression more of hubris in that Kratos felt that he could escape the guilt of his actions. He hid it through violence so that the gods would find him worthy enough to remove it. When they didn't suicide was his option of escape, but that too was denied him, so he lashed out at those that kept screwing him over. When they tried to reign him in, he lashed out harder.
This doesn't exactly make him a likable character, in fact we may resent how much we might see ourselves in this behaviour. That's what myths and ledgends served to provide beyond origin of the universe stories: literary examples of how behaving badly leads to a bad end. Immature, yes., but how many of us thought out parents were just being mean for grounding us, that our teachers gave us poor grades because they hated us, or that sometware companies put in anti piracy codes out of pure greed. It can never be we did something wrong. We want freedom from the dreaded authority figures that want us to behave.
This doesn't save GOW2's story as there really wasn't much there on its own. It doesn't even really resolve and instead of trying for any kind of message they go for the "uber cliffhanger" ending meant to wet the appitite for the sequal. GOW3 I'll admit had more than was needed (but hey, the game needs levels, and it's not as though greek myths weren't without side stories not necessarly imporant to the overall moral of things) and much of pandora was put in to put greek myth back on track (whereas the first game ingored it for everything but names). Pandora herself was something of a cheap shot as well, offering us the idea that Kratos might be coming to his senses before finishing the blind rage again. As for the first person, I think they were trying too hard for that "personal experience". To make the character Kratos less an avatar and more us. This isn't pulled off well often, but it sometimes works, like having to ppush the button to kill The Boss youself in MGS3 despite it being presented as a cutscene.
Then the end, well, any discussion of GOW's story is incomplete without at least trying to interput Athena and her actions. She at least implied that she'd been guiding this from the start to her own ends (get rid of the gods and their earthbound legacies to take over herself) leading me to wonder if the whole trilogy was the greek tragedy, the first game searving more as porlogue. We will probalbly never know the reasons behind Kratos' (attempted) suicide but this is who I see it. He lashed out at the gods to be free of them and their manipulation, only to find that that had all been him being manipulated by another god. It fits the tragedy pattern of the guy on top taking actions that lead to his downfall, at least in the sense that he didn't get what he really wanted for all the damage he did. Athena could and would use him again as she built her new world. In the end he takes the way of more than a few greek tragedy figures (death to escape the damage he did) though much of me thinks he did it just to say "fuck you" to Athena.
I won't claim things as art, but I don't write off the third game either.
Spoilers of course
I never got a redemtion vibe from the first game. I got the impression more of hubris in that Kratos felt that he could escape the guilt of his actions. He hid it through violence so that the gods would find him worthy enough to remove it. When they didn't suicide was his option of escape, but that too was denied him, so he lashed out at those that kept screwing him over. When they tried to reign him in, he lashed out harder.
This doesn't exactly make him a likable character, in fact we may resent how much we might see ourselves in this behaviour. That's what myths and ledgends served to provide beyond origin of the universe stories: literary examples of how behaving badly leads to a bad end. Immature, yes., but how many of us thought out parents were just being mean for grounding us, that our teachers gave us poor grades because they hated us, or that sometware companies put in anti piracy codes out of pure greed. It can never be we did something wrong. We want freedom from the dreaded authority figures that want us to behave.
This doesn't save GOW2's story as there really wasn't much there on its own. It doesn't even really resolve and instead of trying for any kind of message they go for the "uber cliffhanger" ending meant to wet the appitite for the sequal. GOW3 I'll admit had more than was needed (but hey, the game needs levels, and it's not as though greek myths weren't without side stories not necessarly imporant to the overall moral of things) and much of pandora was put in to put greek myth back on track (whereas the first game ingored it for everything but names). Pandora herself was something of a cheap shot as well, offering us the idea that Kratos might be coming to his senses before finishing the blind rage again. As for the first person, I think they were trying too hard for that "personal experience". To make the character Kratos less an avatar and more us. This isn't pulled off well often, but it sometimes works, like having to ppush the button to kill The Boss youself in MGS3 despite it being presented as a cutscene.
Then the end, well, any discussion of GOW's story is incomplete without at least trying to interput Athena and her actions. She at least implied that she'd been guiding this from the start to her own ends (get rid of the gods and their earthbound legacies to take over herself) leading me to wonder if the whole trilogy was the greek tragedy, the first game searving more as porlogue. We will probalbly never know the reasons behind Kratos' (attempted) suicide but this is who I see it. He lashed out at the gods to be free of them and their manipulation, only to find that that had all been him being manipulated by another god. It fits the tragedy pattern of the guy on top taking actions that lead to his downfall, at least in the sense that he didn't get what he really wanted for all the damage he did. Athena could and would use him again as she built her new world. In the end he takes the way of more than a few greek tragedy figures (death to escape the damage he did) though much of me thinks he did it just to say "fuck you" to Athena.
I won't claim things as art, but I don't write off the third game either.
This is the first EC that I can get entirely behind, because I'VE BEEN SAYING THE SAME EXACT THING FOR MONTHS. GoW1 = gem, GoW2 + 3 pissed all over that gem, story-wise of course. The gameplay was still excellent, but if I could forget the terrible terrible story arcs from the second two games, I'd gladly burn those brain cells dead.
If only I had a interweb video series...
If only I had a interweb video series...
That very odd & inexplicable shift in perspective in the final scene is what worries me so much with "Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions." You play a 3rd-person action game 90%, swinging around beating bad guys, but then it becomes Spider-Punch Out during the boss fights. And it's not even the whole fight, just PART of it.
When I saw that in the trailer it immediately reminded me of GoW3. I know it's too late for them to change it, so I can only hope that they make it meaningful somehow. On a side-note, the shift in perspective for the Poseidon kill was freakin GENIUS!!
When I saw that in the trailer it immediately reminded me of GoW3. I know it's too late for them to change it, so I can only hope that they make it meaningful somehow. On a side-note, the shift in perspective for the Poseidon kill was freakin GENIUS!!
I really don't think God of War 1 had a fantastic story by any means, nor was it really told that well (IMO of course).
By the end I just thought "Man, Kratos is a dick."
I think you're giving it WAY too much credit saying it's supposed to be a greek tragedy.
By the end I just thought "Man, Kratos is a dick."
I think you're giving it WAY too much credit saying it's supposed to be a greek tragedy.
God of War 1 was a perfect example of the accidental masterpiece. It was done with little expectation from the publisher because it wasn't an established title.
God of War 2 and 3 was a FRANCHISE, and as such had as its primary concern the whims of the marketing department, and marketing people are the biggest retarded assholes in the universe outside of politics. Storytelling would get in the way, slow down development, and delay the flow of the money spigot.
It's the same "accidental masterpiece" problem that plagued stuff like Back to the Future. The first film was a triumph, truly an accidental masterpiece. The second and third films were cash-ins with money as their primary goal...and couldn't hold a candle to the first.
If games are ever to elevate themselves and I'm to shut up and stop saying "Roger Ebert is still right" every time the subject of games-as-art comes up in conversation, the marketing people need to have done to them what anything that moves within Kratos' range has done to it in God of War 3. For the good of gaming marketing needs to be told to shut its damn fool mouth and let the people with talent create what sold like gangbusters in the first place.
And since you've got a better chance of seeing me on camera in a threesome with Sasha Grey and Bree Olson than you do of seeing the scenario in that last paragraph...well, let's just say maybe gaming ought to just stick to what seems to work, which is producing mindless drivel that's fun to play and does its job then goes away, out of sight and out of mind, when the off button is pressed.
God of War 2 and 3 was a FRANCHISE, and as such had as its primary concern the whims of the marketing department, and marketing people are the biggest retarded assholes in the universe outside of politics. Storytelling would get in the way, slow down development, and delay the flow of the money spigot.
It's the same "accidental masterpiece" problem that plagued stuff like Back to the Future. The first film was a triumph, truly an accidental masterpiece. The second and third films were cash-ins with money as their primary goal...and couldn't hold a candle to the first.
If games are ever to elevate themselves and I'm to shut up and stop saying "Roger Ebert is still right" every time the subject of games-as-art comes up in conversation, the marketing people need to have done to them what anything that moves within Kratos' range has done to it in God of War 3. For the good of gaming marketing needs to be told to shut its damn fool mouth and let the people with talent create what sold like gangbusters in the first place.
And since you've got a better chance of seeing me on camera in a threesome with Sasha Grey and Bree Olson than you do of seeing the scenario in that last paragraph...well, let's just say maybe gaming ought to just stick to what seems to work, which is producing mindless drivel that's fun to play and does its job then goes away, out of sight and out of mind, when the off button is pressed.
Great video and you make some excellent points, but I am going to have to disagree about god of war 1's ending/god of war 2's begining.
To me (all opinion based btw), kratos, while fully aware of the horrible deeds he has done, never really gets his redemption/punishment. If the gods of olympus really wanted him to learn the consequences of his actions, they would have let him kill himself. Instead, by making him a god, I think they are essentially reinforcing the notion that he has the power to do what ever he wants, damn the consequences. By the time olympus pieces together diefying (sp?) a deranged psychopath might not have been a good idea., they already have another monsterous kratos to deal with. So, they try to take his powers, which just makes it worse, and kratos lashes out at everyone, (as you say in the video, like a child). The rest of god of war 2 and god of war 3 is essentially olympus paying the consequences of their own actions.
So, it a weird sense, the game maintains it's greek tragedy status, but instead of Kratos as the main character, it shifts to Zeus and the rest of the greek pantheon. You just get to play as the instrument of their own destruction.
But, whatever, That's just how I see it. I do tend to rant a little bit.
To me (all opinion based btw), kratos, while fully aware of the horrible deeds he has done, never really gets his redemption/punishment. If the gods of olympus really wanted him to learn the consequences of his actions, they would have let him kill himself. Instead, by making him a god, I think they are essentially reinforcing the notion that he has the power to do what ever he wants, damn the consequences. By the time olympus pieces together diefying (sp?) a deranged psychopath might not have been a good idea., they already have another monsterous kratos to deal with. So, they try to take his powers, which just makes it worse, and kratos lashes out at everyone, (as you say in the video, like a child). The rest of god of war 2 and god of war 3 is essentially olympus paying the consequences of their own actions.
So, it a weird sense, the game maintains it's greek tragedy status, but instead of Kratos as the main character, it shifts to Zeus and the rest of the greek pantheon. You just get to play as the instrument of their own destruction.
But, whatever, That's just how I see it. I do tend to rant a little bit.
Because some of us don't care for simple slaughter. some of us enjoy a good narrative, a well written script, dialog. these are the things that make a game memorable, not the fact that you can string up a fifty hit combo in under 10 seconds.squid5580 said:
I however, am surprised that so much thought was put into this.
I agree with everything on said video. To be honest, I feel you could have been more harsh on GoW3 for what they did to David Jaffe's vision.
Great work, guys. Yeah, I loved Kratos in the first game. He was the closest he ever was to relatable. He actually suffered tragedy rather than be the source of it, but then the sequels killed it off.
Holy crap, I think I'm seeing a pattern here... God of War is going through the exact same motions as Prince of Persia, Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon! Monkey Island, maybe, but I've never played it.
Holy crap, I think I'm seeing a pattern here... God of War is going through the exact same motions as Prince of Persia, Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon! Monkey Island, maybe, but I've never played it.
I really liked this episode! A very refreshing look at storytelling. I've heard all these points you made in every screenwriting/film class I've ever taken. GOW:1 was a great game for that very reason, and I had high hopes for the second installment. High hopes as always are primer for high let downs. Though the gameplay was still top notch the story fell by the wayside. This series was a perfect example to illustrate your point. One can only hope that something as superb as Portal will not meet a similar fate with it's sequel.
This was an amazing video. Greatly analyzed with many great points, I played all of God of War and loved it. I didn't even finish 2 because it was uninvolving, and just more of first game but the plot started getting meddled and rather stupid, and made Kratos an absolute dick.
I refuse to play the third game, chose only to see videos of various plot-critical spots, and I hated what I saw. Ruined the plot, very preachy, and just undeserving.
Keep up the great work, I hope to see more analyses in the future!
I refuse to play the third game, chose only to see videos of various plot-critical spots, and I hated what I saw. Ruined the plot, very preachy, and just undeserving.
Keep up the great work, I hope to see more analyses in the future!
This video pretty much explains my feelings about the God of War series, and also why I consider David Jaffe a great game designer. Even though Twisted Metal and God of War can be looked at as simple-overly-violent-games, David Jaffe understands that's no excuse to put no effort in the story the game conveys. As can be seen by comparing his games in those series (God of War 1, and Twisted Metal 1, 2, and Black) to the games he had no part in (God of War 2 & 3, Twisted Metal 3 & 4).
Yeah...great. Where was the praise when I was doing the exact same thing?alligabbi said:
All I got was insults and curses. I even criticized the fact that the ending of God Of War 1 was only partially canon to the second game. The first was a great stand-alone experience, but the second ignored parts of the ending and the actual graphic design of the Gods. They also shift Zeus' personality.