"Read the books" is never an excuse for the game failing to characterise him properly. That excuse would not slide in a movie, a play, or any other form of medium.ironlordthemad said:OK for what has too be the hundredth time on these forums, I'm going to point at the Gears of War novels by Karen Travis and say that "If you want to realy see whats going on under the hood of some of the best known characters in video gaming, read these books."
It will explain why marcus has the mental capacities of a 12 year old.
It will explain why he is distant, even too those he loves most.
Hats of too Therumancer for sticking up for a good set of video games with logic and reasoning rather than just jumping on the "GRRRR I AM MARCUS FENIX AN ANGRY ROBOT!" bandwagon.
Quick question, did anyone see the final scene in Gears of War 3?
Seriously anyone?
You know that bit where it all hits Marcus and he takes off his armour for the first time (metaphorically and physically) since we knew him as a video game character and we realise just how deeply unwell he is a a person?
Nah just me then.
Or did you miss it in Gears of War 2 where he shows concern for the love of his life, the woman he hasn't made a move on because it would get in the way and just complicate things?
How many of you have realised that the ENTIRE point of Marcus Fenix is just plain and simple: you wont see much of him as a person, he raises his shields around himself so he doesn't get hurt, but when something hits home, when something realy hurts, you see it and you realise how hard he has to work to keep himself protected because he is so weak?
Amen. I've seen people tell interesting stories with games (and nothing but the game! Sometimes just one game even!). A few, but they're there. If you need someone else to write a few books just to get your point across sufficiently, it's just goddamned laziness.Shamanic Rhythm said:"Read the books" is never an excuse for the game failing to characterise him properly. That excuse would not slide in a movie, a play, or any other form of medium.ironlordthemad said:OK for what has too be the hundredth time on these forums, I'm going to point at the Gears of War novels by Karen Travis and say that "If you want to realy see whats going on under the hood of some of the best known characters in video gaming, read these books."
It will explain why marcus has the mental capacities of a 12 year old.
It will explain why he is distant, even too those he loves most.
Hats of too Therumancer for sticking up for a good set of video games with logic and reasoning rather than just jumping on the "GRRRR I AM MARCUS FENIX AN ANGRY ROBOT!" bandwagon.
Quick question, did anyone see the final scene in Gears of War 3?
Seriously anyone?
You know that bit where it all hits Marcus and he takes off his armour for the first time (metaphorically and physically) since we knew him as a video game character and we realise just how deeply unwell he is a a person?
Nah just me then.
Or did you miss it in Gears of War 2 where he shows concern for the love of his life, the woman he hasn't made a move on because it would get in the way and just complicate things?
How many of you have realised that the ENTIRE point of Marcus Fenix is just plain and simple: you wont see much of him as a person, he raises his shields around himself so he doesn't get hurt, but when something hits home, when something realy hurts, you see it and you realise how hard he has to work to keep himself protected because he is so weak?
Actually, there's a fair bit of mention of the Lambent, or at least hints. The Lambent Wretches are clearly shown as different, and the game states that long term exposure to Imulsion causes this disease/affliction.Akalabeth said:Well I think you're giving the story too much credit quite frankly.
The lambent weren't even so much as mentioned in the first game that I'm aware of, and I say this as someone who only played it a month or two back for the first time. They seem to be sort of making it up as they go along. Oh wait that's not entirely true, there were some lambent monkey things. But I dunno, I think they just built upon that they didn't intend to go this direction exactly. I don't think a lot of people plan to make 3 games, they make 1 and simply hope to make more. Then they do their best to tie things together but it doesn't necessarily work out in the end.
The problem with this game and the problem with many similar games is that there's no sense of loss. I mean yeah, a lot of people died, but who are they, why should I care? Why should I care about Dom's wife? I've never met or seen the broad. I cared a little bit about dom, but not much.
Oh ho ho ho, well, aren't you so very witty.mjc0961 said:You know, actually playing the games would really help with clearing that up.Zhukov said:That reminds me, why exactly were the Locusts in Gears deemed evil?
Sure, they didn't exactly treat their pets nicely, but beyond that, what gave them the "bad guy" label apart from being slightly uglier than the average human soldier?
Stoneface said:Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you see what you doing here is justifying WHY Marcus is a really boring macho twat...but you'r not DENYING that he's a really boring macho twat. Congratulations.Therumancer said:Sometimes it bugs me how often Yahtzee can give biting insights, and other times he can miss a huge amount of the point almost entirely. Sometimes I thing he's just sounding off for the sake of sounding off.
I'm not a huge "Gears Of War" fan, but understand that we're dealing with characters who are career military, and a protaganist who is a hardened veteran before the game even starts, and has also done a fairly notable stint in a military prison.
Military training by it's very nature is supposed to strip away most signs of emotion and individuality, the idea being to replace everything you are with something better... well better in the context of killing people and breaking things in pursuit of a goal someone else decides on. Soldiers who recognize the enemy as having valid points of view, or being regular people with lives and families are kind of useless in reality. All arguements about politics and morality, when your fighting to win soldiers who pause to contemplate the inhumanity of war and what they are doing to their enemy in the midst of a battle can't do the job. The last thing you need is for the guy standing there protecting you to pause and go "OMG, I can't kill this poor unfortunate" while that guy proceeds to kill him and then turns around and massacres you and your entire civilization.
We could sit here and argue about the morality of this entire thing, and the nessecity of it, but I doubt I could do a better job of explaining it and WHY it's needed anymore than say Heinlan's "Starship Troopers".
When looking at a game featuring the military, especially characters who are supposed to be experienced veterans... yes, they are going to be fairly uniform. That's actually good writing since this is what the system produces. Take one of those guys, toss him into a military prison where emotion is a weakness (prison can be very dehumanizing on people who want to survive it, especially military prison), and then toss him back out into an apocolyptic war... and yeah... Marcus Fenix is pretty much what your going to get. If he was any other way it would actually have been bad writing given the backround which ties into the entire thing.... and this is a defense being made by someone who doesn't paticularly like the game in question.
Simply put the whole "Macho" attitude we see here, is kind of realistic for the kinds of characters we tend to deal with. In general people have differant mechanisms for turning out that way. Joking about everything and becoming a sort of macabre clown who takes nothing seriously while doing their job with lethal precisian, or becoming the aloof "Marcus Fenix" type are both very typical ways of dealing with this kind of life.
As far as cutting down bad guys who have legitimate points of view and/or justifications for what they are doing, that's pretty much reality. In general nobody wakes up and decides "we're going to be really evil today just for the heck of it" everything happens for a reason. Of course the Locust/Chimera/Muslims/Whatever have legitimate reasons for doing what they are doing from their own perspective, some of which might even seem fairly reasonable to the other side, if they didn't there wouldn't be a massive scale war. This is incidently exactly WHY you dehumanize your soldiers and strip away a lot of their empathy. In the end pretty much all wars come down to "us or them", "my side, and their side", the bad guy and the good guy are all matters of point of view, and when it's come down to a war only one side is going to be left functioning, and that's the side that gets to record history.
A situation where a bad guy goes off about how legitimate their cause is and then gets cut down by some grunting soldier who might have a personal vendetta is pretty much a summary of war in a nutshell. In the end the point of view of the loser doesn't matter, it's all about who wins.... and in "Gears Of War" it is very much an "us or them" type situation no matter who might have the overall moral high ground when you scrape all the muck away.
Honestly from what I know of the series "Gears Of War" set out to make a sort of commentary on the nature of war, and really from the plot points I've seen it's done a fairly good job of making the points it set out to do. Marcus Fenix might be stereotypical to some extent, but I suspect that's kind of the point, as is the simple point that once a war breaks out
the reasons behind it no longer matter, with it being the job of a soldier to end the war favorably for their side or die trying.
But then again, the realities of war have never really sat well with the left wing regardless of what name it uses in a given country.
We do know! If you go to IGN and listen to the Resistance 3 Spoilercast, Marcus Smith (iirc) the creative director talks about how they had numerous places they had in mind but had to amalgamate some, cut others. Which explains that sense of deleted scenes.hermes200 said:I get your point and I agree with you (although I think R&C is slightly better in that regard), but that was not my point.
My point is, the game feels like a lot of the content was left on the editing floor... I had the feeling that entire maps (with their introductory cutscenes) were cut clean and lots of things were left unanswered (or even worst, untouched). I get that many times developers have to cut stuff to make to deadlines, but for the sake of storytelling some things should be left uncut (or, at least, moved somewhere else). One moment we are running for our dear life and the next we are at the heart of the Chimeran invasion, with nothing in between. Maybe some of the things Yatzhee mentions in the article,were to be expanded on the lost levels, but we may never know... If anything, we have to take the character at face value.like a proper character growth for Capelli and a motivation to give a damn about Malikov's death, other than the initial nag from his wife. Or the fact that she is Hale's sister (I guess suitable men and women are not so common in this distopian world, but to marry your brother's killer? That would have been an uncomfortable first date)
By R*, I assume you mean shorthand for Rockstar?GonzoGamer said:They should've stuck with their original idea of having a laugh-track like on a sitcom.hansari said:How have so many people failed to realize that Gears of War is a comedy???
I've been playing games too long to expect a good story out of a game. Back in the day, games didn't have a story; at least not one that required more than a paragraph at the beginning of the manual. In fact (besides the old RPGs) the fact that most games actually have a story is still pretty novel to me.
That said, most game stories (even the ones that people rave about like Heavy Rain & Mass Effect) are really pedestrian as if they're plagiarizing fan-fiction. Like R*, every time I get the feeling that they want me to get weepy over a plot point, it usually just makes me laugh.
What I'm saying is, of all the things to put resources into for a game, the story doesn't really need much of a priority. Besides, when it is given the priority, it doesn't ever seem to be worth it.
In fact I'm surprised the devs haven't made it a contest or something: get the fans to write in their ideas for the story. It can't turn out much worse. Besides, it's a less important than beta testing which is given away as a prize now.
No! That was just to throw you off. Some sleight of hand, like with the Assassin Creed trailers, prior to the gameplay leaks, where the game was looking to be about some Arab Assassin in times of the Crusades. But it was really about some grand conspiracy and the quest for the megaweapon led by the whiny pitiful descendant of the awesome assassin!!OutrageousEmu said:That argument stopped being valid the minute they made that pretentious "Mad World" trailer.hansari said:How have so many people failed to realize that Gears of War is a comedy???
Are you sure Bulletstorm isn't a greek tragedy?Akalabeth said:No, Bulletstorm is a comedy.hansari said:How have so many people failed to realize that Gears of War is a comedy???
Gears of War is trying to be serious.
Action without justification is a waste of time.Mr Ink 5000 said:to be honest, unless a game can pull off a good story, i'd rather it was left out completly than a b-movie plot stuck in for the sake of it.
in that respect its a lot like pr0n with a plot; i'd rather just cut to the action
why is it? alot of people i know skip passed the plot in pron and skip the cut scenes in games and still have as much fun as i doNormandyfoxtrot said:Action without justification is a waste of time.Mr Ink 5000 said:to be honest, unless a game can pull off a good story, i'd rather it was left out completly than a b-movie plot stuck in for the sake of it.
in that respect its a lot like pr0n with a plot; i'd rather just cut to the action
You assumed correct sir.hansari said:By R*, I assume you mean shorthand for Rockstar?
In which case, I agree. The best game Rockstar has ever produced in fact has to be San Andreas. Rather then go for a serious tone, they went for something so inane and over the top...its the reason it is so brilliant!