it seems we both missed a joke...damn thee internet! on a serious note, sowwy! (with "W"s to make it sound all cutesy and twee...)CardinalPiggles said:
Extra Punctuation: Too Many Options in Skyrim
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
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On the point of it being surprisingly easy to commit yourself to a cause, I agree. Now that i think about it, I've accidentally joined every faction in the game, with the exception of the Imperials, because I accidentally joined the Stormcloaks.
I actually wanted to join the Companions, but thanks to the main quest I've got mages bothering me to talk to someone or other, and I made the mistake of trying to figure out what these strange gems clogging my inventory that I couldn't drop were, so everyone in Riften's acting all chummy now. It's a bit ridiculous.
I actually wanted to join the Companions, but thanks to the main quest I've got mages bothering me to talk to someone or other, and I made the mistake of trying to figure out what these strange gems clogging my inventory that I couldn't drop were, so everyone in Riften's acting all chummy now. It's a bit ridiculous.
I honestly have to say I thought Skyrim did it just right in the character customization thing. It was hard to make a horrific looking character, but allowed a great deal of customization. It was fun to play around with, I thoroughly enjoyed myself doing it. Hell, I can say my Steamlist is full of people who were constantly sending me screenshots of "how hot" their char was, and "their new equipment" playing with camera angles and outfits just to send pics to their friends. Allot of these guys were people I'd not talked to in literally years, even.
Honestly I think there are too few options in Skyrim, it feels like we get less and less options every game.
I like the idea of the facial sliders, but my problem is that it's very hard to tell what something is going to look like when it's actually displayed in game. My major fem-shep character in Mass Effect has mutant cheekbones I can't fix (but I guess give her character) despite looking good when I first worked the sliders.
That said, I think the complaints here are kind of ridiculous overall... other than how they should perhaps put combat and non-combat skills into differant catagories.
As far as being leveling themselves into a corner... well I could argue that a game that has no chance of really losing is kind of boring, I'd consider getting stuck this way a "defeated" condition for the game.... especially seeing as part of the fun is that you have so many options that you should be able to find a way to make any kind of character work to an extent.
Case in point, if your weapon and shield character is stuck, perhaps you should do a differant character or go back to a pre-dungeon save, and work on adapting your character. Elemental resistances on equipment help, as do summoning your own monsters. Not to mention bringing a follower along... especially one that can ALSO summon monsters can be a big help. Also having the right weapons making a big deal, not only in termsof making them youself, but getting your hands on some of those Daedric artifacts helps a lot. Spellbreaker in paticular is a HUGE help if your a weapon and shield character. The Sanguine Rose is arguably an "I win" button for most fights because with a few charged soul gems to recharge it if you need to you can just hide and summon Dremoras one at a time to wear down the enemies.
Also for the record if you were paying attention that "mangy dog" was not just a dog, it was part of the divine powers of a Daedra Lord... so you know... being invincible sort of makes sense.
All NPCs that join you are also invincible, or supposed to be. If they are defeated by an NPC they are supposed to be knocked down and will get back up after a few (even re-entering a fight). The thing is that your supposed to have the option to kill your followers (and it's something you do for a few paticularly evil quests), so you can deathblow them. If you find your followers dying in combat it's either due to a glitch or you accidently taking them down with splash damage or missing an attack.
At any rate if your having trouble I recommend grabbing an NPC, gearing them as well as posisble and giving them some nasty staffs for spells like fireball, blizzard, summon storm atronach (you can manufacture this with the Forge beneath Winterhold), and other things. You wind up being immune to their splash damage. Then start tough fights by summoning your own minion (a storm atronach or a dremora from The Sanguine Rose.. SA book can also be made at the same forge). You can wind up with a party of a dog (buy Vigilance if need be), a minion (I like Eola, the cannibal high-priestess of Namira), and two summoned monsters all going at the same time. If you hit 100 in conjuring you can have three summoned monsters going at the same time and well... yeah... big mess. I don't have 100 conjuring right now though.
The point is that there is some strategy and tactics involved, and that's what can make things hard or easy.
I like the idea of the facial sliders, but my problem is that it's very hard to tell what something is going to look like when it's actually displayed in game. My major fem-shep character in Mass Effect has mutant cheekbones I can't fix (but I guess give her character) despite looking good when I first worked the sliders.
That said, I think the complaints here are kind of ridiculous overall... other than how they should perhaps put combat and non-combat skills into differant catagories.
As far as being leveling themselves into a corner... well I could argue that a game that has no chance of really losing is kind of boring, I'd consider getting stuck this way a "defeated" condition for the game.... especially seeing as part of the fun is that you have so many options that you should be able to find a way to make any kind of character work to an extent.
Case in point, if your weapon and shield character is stuck, perhaps you should do a differant character or go back to a pre-dungeon save, and work on adapting your character. Elemental resistances on equipment help, as do summoning your own monsters. Not to mention bringing a follower along... especially one that can ALSO summon monsters can be a big help. Also having the right weapons making a big deal, not only in termsof making them youself, but getting your hands on some of those Daedric artifacts helps a lot. Spellbreaker in paticular is a HUGE help if your a weapon and shield character. The Sanguine Rose is arguably an "I win" button for most fights because with a few charged soul gems to recharge it if you need to you can just hide and summon Dremoras one at a time to wear down the enemies.
Also for the record if you were paying attention that "mangy dog" was not just a dog, it was part of the divine powers of a Daedra Lord... so you know... being invincible sort of makes sense.
All NPCs that join you are also invincible, or supposed to be. If they are defeated by an NPC they are supposed to be knocked down and will get back up after a few (even re-entering a fight). The thing is that your supposed to have the option to kill your followers (and it's something you do for a few paticularly evil quests), so you can deathblow them. If you find your followers dying in combat it's either due to a glitch or you accidently taking them down with splash damage or missing an attack.
At any rate if your having trouble I recommend grabbing an NPC, gearing them as well as posisble and giving them some nasty staffs for spells like fireball, blizzard, summon storm atronach (you can manufacture this with the Forge beneath Winterhold), and other things. You wind up being immune to their splash damage. Then start tough fights by summoning your own minion (a storm atronach or a dremora from The Sanguine Rose.. SA book can also be made at the same forge). You can wind up with a party of a dog (buy Vigilance if need be), a minion (I like Eola, the cannibal high-priestess of Namira), and two summoned monsters all going at the same time. If you hit 100 in conjuring you can have three summoned monsters going at the same time and well... yeah... big mess. I don't have 100 conjuring right now though.
The point is that there is some strategy and tactics involved, and that's what can make things hard or easy.
I dunno, I think most of us have reached that point in RPGs where you have to grind out a couple levels to get past a certain encounter, and there have been a couple where mid-way in I realize I've been playing the whole game wrong and had to start over with a different spec. And there ARE preselected character appearances if that is what floats your boat.
I have yet to receive Skyrim. I ordered it a few weeks ago and it was posted last week so I should receive it in a few days. After playing it enough to be able to contribute a sound opinion, I'll post again. Maybe I'll agree with Ben on that, who knows.
Edit: After reading a bit about the codes of conduct I decided to edit my post and write more content so that it's not a futile waste of time. I really enjoyed Oblivion but the levelling of monsters was getting ridiculous on higher levels. It grinds my gears that my very able character can die by the attack of one goblin which at that point is a formidable foe. That is absurd, the system should favour the playing experience so that easiest monsters would be just a few sword swings away from being dead but also give challenge in forms of stronger creatures. Skyrim has this same system implemented, I presume? It's bound to be heavily modded again but I'm quite confident that overall the game will be good
Edit: After reading a bit about the codes of conduct I decided to edit my post and write more content so that it's not a futile waste of time. I really enjoyed Oblivion but the levelling of monsters was getting ridiculous on higher levels. It grinds my gears that my very able character can die by the attack of one goblin which at that point is a formidable foe. That is absurd, the system should favour the playing experience so that easiest monsters would be just a few sword swings away from being dead but also give challenge in forms of stronger creatures. Skyrim has this same system implemented, I presume? It's bound to be heavily modded again but I'm quite confident that overall the game will be good
Skyrim's level-scaling system is not the same as Oblivion's. Yes, the hostile NPCs do grow more powerful as you level up, so if you spend an awful lot of time grinding up your enchanting and smithing skills prior to venturing out to clear barrows and shout at dragons, you may very well find yourself significantly outclassed by a lot of your opponents, but I feel that's no something you can criticize too heavily. If you choose to spend large amounts of time buffing up non-combat skills and then, in essence, take your blacksmith out to smite monsters you should expect to be in trouble. Just because you can make a sword doesn't mean you're any good at fighting with one.Istronen said:
Certainly, on my playthrough as a heavy armour, one handed and shield specialist I never experienced the situation Yahtzee outlines. Though the set up; painful undead melee attacker combined with Frost Atronach summoning friend, is familiar and did lead to me breaking out the bow and arrows so I could lure A to follow me up the corridor so I could chib him without his daedra-summoning friend to help.
The first paragraph of this article has stuck in my mind so I wanted to chime in. I think you are both right.
Definitely, having at least one other follower along is part of the game and if you don't have that you are doing it wrong. Add to that a horse, a dog, a zombie, and an elemental and you are good to go. Not doing that is like having two hands in a game, but only equipping one of them, and then complaining the game is too hard. Or not wearing a helmet because you like your hair. Or something. Your henchmen are really beneficial and enhance tactics and strategy.
But I find a lot of difficulty mismatching in Skyrim. While you level up and your power is highly dependent on levels, on sight it is hard to tell how hard your enemy is going to be, or how hard a dungeon is, and there is plenty of times I find myself in over my head making generous use of quicksaves, and other times I go for an hour or more never losing more than a quarter of my health.
There is no way to tell how hard something is going into it, whether it is at your level or not. Something like a skull and cross bones over the head of a high level boss or ring leader, or a feather for low levels ones, or color coding the quests, something like that, would be a big help.
Definitely, having at least one other follower along is part of the game and if you don't have that you are doing it wrong. Add to that a horse, a dog, a zombie, and an elemental and you are good to go. Not doing that is like having two hands in a game, but only equipping one of them, and then complaining the game is too hard. Or not wearing a helmet because you like your hair. Or something. Your henchmen are really beneficial and enhance tactics and strategy.
But I find a lot of difficulty mismatching in Skyrim. While you level up and your power is highly dependent on levels, on sight it is hard to tell how hard your enemy is going to be, or how hard a dungeon is, and there is plenty of times I find myself in over my head making generous use of quicksaves, and other times I go for an hour or more never losing more than a quarter of my health.
There is no way to tell how hard something is going into it, whether it is at your level or not. Something like a skull and cross bones over the head of a high level boss or ring leader, or a feather for low levels ones, or color coding the quests, something like that, would be a big help.
Linear storylines can get boring. The role of the interactivity in gaming comes to question in such games. Without choices don't they just become pissing matches? Don't they all become that silly little flash game that's supposed to be the most impossible where you just have to press the right buttons at the right time and you win?
That's kind of ridiculous. I think there needs to be options. There needs to be a shitload of options. In fact, to fully adhere to the intended immersion, I think there shouldn't even be template options. It should be entirely freeform. However, there should be a linear plot. This would be the ideal RPG because the game is to roleplay properly. You can't be a citizen-saving, Blades-champion dragonborn out to save the people from any instance of discomfort (here, let me get that foot stool for you, Random Stranger!) for 90% of the time and randomly a psychopathic child-murdering kleptomaniac for the other 10%.
That's kind of ridiculous. I think there needs to be options. There needs to be a shitload of options. In fact, to fully adhere to the intended immersion, I think there shouldn't even be template options. It should be entirely freeform. However, there should be a linear plot. This would be the ideal RPG because the game is to roleplay properly. You can't be a citizen-saving, Blades-champion dragonborn out to save the people from any instance of discomfort (here, let me get that foot stool for you, Random Stranger!) for 90% of the time and randomly a psychopathic child-murdering kleptomaniac for the other 10%.
I have to agree that at a certain point, the character customization just starts to feel a bit overwhelming in RPGs. When I was younger I used to think it was all sorts of fun to spend hours in a character creator, just seeing what sort of interesting individuals I could come up with. Nowadays, I'm afraid I just don't have the patience for it anymore. I don't have as much time as I used to think I had for gaming, so I prefer to get into the action/storytelling as soon as possible.
I still enjoy character customization, mind you, just on a more limited level. Presets of facial features with a variety of colors to choose from works fine for me. I don't think they should take away the sliders, though, I just don't want that to be my only option.
I still enjoy character customization, mind you, just on a more limited level. Presets of facial features with a variety of colors to choose from works fine for me. I don't think they should take away the sliders, though, I just don't want that to be my only option.
