Fable Rant, Defending Fable 2

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Amnestic

High Priest of Haruhi
Aug 22, 2008
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AnOriginalConcept said:
Fable 2 is terrible.

Any game which has an area of effect spell stuns all enemies in its radius is broken.

By the time I was half way through, I was earning millions whenever I turned on the console. I only leveled up two things- my stamina and my lightning spell. I was rolling in useless money and experience even after I bought up all the property and health potions in the area.

Fable 2 has nothing "good" from RPGs. Broken combat, no good loot, no good characters, no good story. I can't see why others can stand it.
Level up your Army of the Dead spell to level 2. You can destroy any of those huge ass trolls in 10-12 seconds without taking a single hit.

Army of the Dead Lvl 2.
->Run up next to troll thing
->Lightning Lvl 5.
->Win.

Game=Broken.
 

Rylot

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I can understand the complaints about the game play being too easy (as in you cannot die, you just wind up looking like you got in a fight with a paper shredder, and lost). The storyline was kinda generic and bland and anticlimactic. I've also never seen a dev that is as self-destructive as Peter (okay, Daikatana does come to mind).
However this game did do certain things absolutely amazingly well. First off the character customization is one of my favorites from any game. You have no power over what your character looks like at the start but your actions do directly affect how you look very early on in the game and can change depending on how you act. There have been other games where you can affect how your character looks, but none with the implementation or variety of Fable 2.
Another thing that I enjoyed was how you can have an impact on how the world around you turns out. While it does fall into the whole "have to choose between extreme good and extreme evil" there is a lot of choices the player makes that are reflected in the game.
Lastly I really enjoyed how the world around the player reacts to your actions. Are you a murderous psychopath? NPCs will freak out and run away from you. Not famous yet? Townsfolk will ignore you until you gain "renown" in that area. The player's actions also affect the town's economy.
While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, for Fable 2, what you want from a game really colors how well you liked it.
 

LogicNProportion

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Internet Kraken said:
See, I get what you're saying, but I feel a lot of games that people praise infinitely on here such as Bioshock, aren't quite as what I think 'AWESOME!' should be.

I thought Bioshock was average. A little above the norm, but I got more fun from playing, let's say, Halo 3. And again, I understand that everyone has their quirks in which certain things appeal to them, or appall them, but I am told I am very, very good a nit-picking, and analyzing facts about events, objects, and situations, and I can't help but feel that something was wrong when Bioshock got a 'Game of the Year' award from multiple sites, channels, magazines, etc.

I'll break it down a bit. When people say what is the 'life' and 'shock' of Bioshock (see what I did there? xD), they talk to me about graphics, of course, for it's time. And I did get Bioshock on the day it came out. While not being a graphics whore, I don't really care much for this, but I'm not to deny it's pretty. It's very pretty! Even put up against games of the now, it's pretty. However, graphics should only really be noted when a game is good or not, when the graphics collide with the actual gameplay, and hamper how you play it, like when textures are off so you can't see something, or even though something is there, you can shoot through it, etc.

Second, they talk to me about the story. Now, while the story was enjoyable, I was probably less than actually phased. You see, I read A LOT. As another fact about me, I have read every book in my high-school's rather large library. I retain the info, too. That being said, Ayn Rand is a favorite author of mine, and I have read everything she's put out. And while I do get Bioshock's wonderful wink to the very talented and admired Miss Rand and her ideals, it was nothing I hadn't seen before. Yet, just like graphics, I can not dismiss a story just because I do not care for it. For a game, the story was, indeed, good, but only a few parts in it actually had that engrossing effect, I feel (Andrew Ryan's end, Atlas' betrayal, etc.). In a story, every part of it is supposed to be telling you something. Wandering around in a freezer does nothing for me.

Third, people talk about the environment and fiction of Rapture, itself. The retro-style and semi-steampunk elements were refreshing, but the game often felt itself split on what it wanted to be like. Retro, futuristic, fantasy, or realistic, and this burned me something awful. If Bioshock was one of these, I think I would have liked it a lot more. The customization element was nothing new, nor was the magic you could use, even though they gave it a slight twist on how it worked in the game's world. However, this, literally, did nothing more than if your character already had said powers to cast magic.

And don't get me started on the moral-choices. You have to admit, they were kind of bland. The whole point was if you wanted to sacrifice little girls for your own gain, or not, to represent how addicted you were. This doesn't work, I think, based on the knowledge that there are two sub-groups in gamers.

The first, are the people who really like to dive into the universe in the game (like me), and treat everything you do as part of the story your putting your heart into. We are supposed to feel bad about killing this little girl or not, but everything about the little girl being a little girl, is gone. Now, while you could then further think on the aspect of 'outer corruption blocking an inner purity' ,etc, it doesn't help the fact that a perfectly normal, scared, little girl with golden hair and teary, blue eyes, would have been much more chilling to dispose of.

The second, are the power-gamers; people like my best friend. They will do whatever they can in any sort of game or competition, to make themselves as best as they can be, even if it means killing the enjoyment of people you're playing with. (He IS the spawn-camper.) People like this would have no qualms killing the girl, no matter what she looked like.

Before I start to ramble, (Yes, I know, more humor.) I will end this on a brief, summarizing note. If you take apart everything, you might see that the good things are just as average or bad. Those that we take apart, and still find brilliant, are the true treasures.

So, even if I compare Fable 2 to a game such as Bioshock, I find them to be both a little above the norm when it comes down to it.
 

Miumaru

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I lost interest when you labelled Two Worlds and KUF as contenders for worse game on 360.
Though I agree with the hate for Fable 2 being well, a lie. If Fable is so hated, why has it done so well? But what gamers say and what they think are never the same. If what gamers said was true, then Sonic would be more popular, and Modern Warfare would not.
 

Necromancer1991

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Miumaru said:
I lost interest when you labelled Two Worlds and KUF as contenders for worse game on 360.
Though I agree with the hate for Fable 2 being well, a lie. If Fable is so hated, why has it done so well? But what gamers say and what they think are never the same. If what gamers said was true, then Sonic would be more popular, and Modern Warfare would not.
two worlds on the Xbox.......IT WAS HORRIBLE, the PC version was passable but the Xbox port handled like a drunken cow.
 

Miumaru

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Necromancer1991 said:
Miumaru said:
I lost interest when you labelled Two Worlds and KUF as contenders for worse game on 360.
Though I agree with the hate for Fable 2 being well, a lie. If Fable is so hated, why has it done so well? But what gamers say and what they think are never the same. If what gamers said was true, then Sonic would be more popular, and Modern Warfare would not.
two worlds on the Xbox.......IT WAS HORRIBLE, the PC version was passable but the Xbox port handled like a drunken cow.
Two Worlds was like an all you can eat buffet. Was not as bad as people act, though i think people are just spoiled. It definatly though deserves the sequal and am sure it will make up for 1. Either way I enjoyed it. Hell I even got all the achievements in it. (Yes, even the all locations one)
 

LogicNProportion

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Miumaru said:
I lost interest when you labelled Two Worlds and KUF as contenders for worse game on 360.
Though I agree with the hate for Fable 2 being well, a lie. If Fable is so hated, why has it done so well? But what gamers say and what they think are never the same. If what gamers said was true, then Sonic would be more popular, and Modern Warfare would not.
To think like a cynic for a second, here, I'd like to point out what you just asked is why a lot of people dislike, or even downright despise Molyneux. He hyped it up, being got caught up in the hype, lots of people bought it.

I can bet that at least some of the money for Fable 3 came from Fable 2's profits. And most people bought Fable 2 based off of hype, or based o nthe fact that they liked the original Fable. A new product sometimes has nothing to do with the quality of it's predecessors.

Over-simplified Example: Disney's The Princess and the Frog. -.-

People loved the Lion King. Saw Disney had not been making big animated movies for awhile. Went to see this abortion. Raged, but they can't do anything about it. The theaters, and Disney, now have that money to fund whatever they deem they should make next.
 

Dango

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Benmonkey7 said:
Well I enjoyed Fable 2, but I didn't pay any attention to the hype or anything so I wasn't disappointed in the least bit.
Yeah, same, I didn't pay attention to any of the hype for Fable 1 and 2, and as a result I just got a thoroughly enjoyable game.
 

Miumaru

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LogicNProportion said:
Miumaru said:
I lost interest when you labelled Two Worlds and KUF as contenders for worse game on 360.
Though I agree with the hate for Fable 2 being well, a lie. If Fable is so hated, why has it done so well? But what gamers say and what they think are never the same. If what gamers said was true, then Sonic would be more popular, and Modern Warfare would not.
To think like a cynic for a second, here, I'd like to point out what you just asked is why a lot of people dislike, or even downright despise Molyneux. He hyped it up, being got caught up in the hype, lots of people bought it.

I can bet that at least some of the money for Fable 3 came from Fable 2's profits. And most people bought Fable 2 based off of hype, or based o nthe fact that they liked the original Fable. A new product sometimes has nothing to do with the quality of it's predecessors.

Over-simplified Example: Disney's The Princess and the Frog. -.-

People loved the Lion King. Saw Disney had not been making big animated movies for awhile. Went to see this abortion. Raged, but they can't do anything about it. The theaters, and Disney, now have that money to fund whatever they deem they should make next.
Oh Im well aware of the why. But its like some place saying they have the best hamburger ever made. Not the best but still great. But would you shun it and go down to McDonalds instead?
I do agree though Molyneux gets carried away, but its part why I like him. I feel confident everything he says is in the games he tries to implement, but cant, and just needs to make it real before he says its real.
 

Kortney

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They're alright. Not good, not bad.

I never really know what to believe from Molyneux so I have started to ignore any talk about Fable III.
 

AMMO Kid

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I absolutely LOVED Fable 2. Those people who hate it should just be quiet and stop ruining it for the rest of us.
 

LogicNProportion

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Miumaru said:
LogicNProportion said:
Miumaru said:
I lost interest when you labelled Two Worlds and KUF as contenders for worse game on 360.
Though I agree with the hate for Fable 2 being well, a lie. If Fable is so hated, why has it done so well? But what gamers say and what they think are never the same. If what gamers said was true, then Sonic would be more popular, and Modern Warfare would not.
To think like a cynic for a second, here, I'd like to point out what you just asked is why a lot of people dislike, or even downright despise Molyneux. He hyped it up, being got caught up in the hype, lots of people bought it.

I can bet that at least some of the money for Fable 3 came from Fable 2's profits. And most people bought Fable 2 based off of hype, or based o nthe fact that they liked the original Fable. A new product sometimes has nothing to do with the quality of it's predecessors.

Over-simplified Example: Disney's The Princess and the Frog. -.-

People loved the Lion King. Saw Disney had not been making big animated movies for awhile. Went to see this abortion. Raged, but they can't do anything about it. The theaters, and Disney, now have that money to fund whatever they deem they should make next.
Oh Im well aware of the why. But its like some place saying they have the best hamburger ever made. Not the best but still great. But would you shun it and go down to McDonalds instead?
I do agree though Molyneux gets carried away, but its part why I like him. I feel confident everything he says is in the games he tries to implement, but cant, and just needs to make it real before he says its real.
That is a good point, and a good question.

The logical thing to do then, would enjoy what you've already payed for, but go for McDonalds (if this is the better of the two) next time. Still, if people say they're in that particular area, tell them to go for the 'not the best but still great' burger-joint. ^^

And yes, Molyenux does need to start making sure he can at least implement the stuff before he goes around telling us what is going to be in his next project. I also agree that this is kind of why I like Molyneux, though. He's actually excited about the games he's making. He might be a bit obnoxious about it, but it's nice to see someone in the biz isn't doing this completely for the money.

I mean, of course, the thought of the money is probably somewhere in the Mind of the Molyneux, but at the very least, he doesn't come across that way, and that's good enough compared to a few people who make games...
 

Archemetis

Is Probably Awesome.
Aug 13, 2008
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I honestly love the Fable series, despite it's flaws which I am always one of the first to acknowledge, I wrote a three part review of it on my blog, which I won't link, because I know no one will read it.

I also owned both Fable classic and Fable TLC and was eagerly awaiting Fable 2 before release, I even went ahead and pre-ordered the collector's edition and bought everything I could to do with it, I got the strategy guide which comes with an art-book with a limited edition cover And my Xbox avatar can dress as a highwayman... But he doesn't...

Yeah, I'm a Fable nut, but I can't ignore just how rushed and sloppy Fable 2 really is.

There's a glaring issue with the character model wherein they can't stand up straight half the time, they're always appearing boss-eyed and more often then not, you'll end up with your legs stuck in the floor if the dog hasn't already beat you to it...

The economy is shoddy at best and easily exploited for ridiculous financial gain, the jobs that were implemented are among some of the most boring things I've ever paid to be able to do... (Second only to WoW dailies)

The game was far more linear then I personally was expecting, granted Molyneux told us 'you can go anywhere' what he failed to tell us is that he must have been joking, because it's exactly the same as Fable classic, you can go to a small selection of places provided you've done the quest necessary to reach those areas.

The story is completely pointless and none of it really makes any sort of realistic sense, for instance, The Fortune teller (That's right I forgot how to spell her name) Outright points you in the direction of the final boss who can be killed with a single gun-shot (which is pretty good for a blind woman to be honest, pointing out vague misty objects on the horizon, I mean).

And then immediately points you in the direction of a gather x amount of y to do z quests which in the end only serve to get your 'friends' captured and you shot in the face... Again.

Whereas had Lionhead handled it the way they keep telling us they will, you could have chartered a boat sailed to the spire (which I might point out, you can ALWAYS see on the horizon) and shoot Lucien in the face from about 50 yards away, final 'boss' done, land saved, let's now save the world from the GENUINE threats that are lurking about, like say the trolls or bandits... Or REAVER.

And that's my main gripe with the game, they made a friendly plot-based NPC more of a villain then the actual Villain. I mean sure, Lucien was threatening the entire world, but only if he knew who the three heroes were, which if Blindy McStupidquestgiver hadn't told you who they were, he would have never figured it out.
Shit, he had Garth in his tower the night he figured out you were a hero, and he wasn't at all suspicious about the glowing marks all over him?


Where was I? Oh yeah! Reaver... Basically Reaver, has been an existing threat in Albion for about 500 years, approximately. Much longer than Lucien, who has only been kidnapping completely willing people and starving them so that they can be better motivated to build his gigantic tower which was presumably built up from the bottom of the ocean somehow.

Reaver has been a pirate for 500 years, doing pirate things as well as sacrificing people to keep himself alive, not to mention cursing his old home town so that not only does it get engulfed into a swamp full of hollow-men, it also gets its very essence sucked into a snow-globe...

Oh, then he tries to rob you of your youth right before shooting Barnum (A guy you've known since you were a kid) right in the face, because his pictures don't develop fast enough...

And despite all that, you're not allowed to kill him at the end of the game...
(In fact if you let Lucien monologue for long enough Reaver even punks the final kill from you... What a twat)

Where's the choice there, Molyneux?

I'm going to stop now, because I get the feeling I'll be writing for the rest of the night if I carry this on. And it's typically bad form when a comment-rant is longer than the OP-rant...

But yeah, despite that, I liked Fable 2 and I've got my girlfriend playing it now and she's into, she's not been tainted by Molyenux's promises yet...
I'm still looking forward to Fable 3 and intend on buying it and playing the ever loving shit out of it.

But in summary, Fable 2 all right but not as good as it's predecessor seriously needing polish
which seemingly Fable 3 has provided.
 

Miumaru

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LogicNProportion said:
Miumaru said:
LogicNProportion said:
Miumaru said:
I lost interest when you labelled Two Worlds and KUF as contenders for worse game on 360.
Though I agree with the hate for Fable 2 being well, a lie. If Fable is so hated, why has it done so well? But what gamers say and what they think are never the same. If what gamers said was true, then Sonic would be more popular, and Modern Warfare would not.
To think like a cynic for a second, here, I'd like to point out what you just asked is why a lot of people dislike, or even downright despise Molyneux. He hyped it up, being got caught up in the hype, lots of people bought it.

I can bet that at least some of the money for Fable 3 came from Fable 2's profits. And most people bought Fable 2 based off of hype, or based o nthe fact that they liked the original Fable. A new product sometimes has nothing to do with the quality of it's predecessors.

Over-simplified Example: Disney's The Princess and the Frog. -.-

People loved the Lion King. Saw Disney had not been making big animated movies for awhile. Went to see this abortion. Raged, but they can't do anything about it. The theaters, and Disney, now have that money to fund whatever they deem they should make next.
Oh Im well aware of the why. But its like some place saying they have the best hamburger ever made. Not the best but still great. But would you shun it and go down to McDonalds instead?
I do agree though Molyneux gets carried away, but its part why I like him. I feel confident everything he says is in the games he tries to implement, but cant, and just needs to make it real before he says its real.
That is a good point, and a good question.

The logical thing to do then, would enjoy what you've already payed for, but go for McDonalds (if this is the better of the two) next time. Still, if people say they're in that particular area, tell them to go for the 'not the best but still great' burger-joint. ^^

And yes, Molyenux does need to start making sure he can at least implement the stuff before he goes around telling us what is going to be in his next project. I also agree that this is kind of why I like Molyneux, though. He's actually excited about the games he's making. He might be a bit obnoxious about it, but it's nice to see someone in the biz isn't doing this completely for the money.

I mean, of course, the thought of the money is probably somewhere in the Mind of the Molyneux, but at the very least, he doesn't come across that way, and that's good enough compared to a few people who make games...
I just want to say though, I think if Molyneux could magically make a game appear exactly as he wants it, it would be one of the best games ever. Ever.
 

Shoggoth2588

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I loved the background jokes. Megafowl, a band book about an evil chicken. The descriptions of the different weapons and armors. The background humor kept everything light so, I didn't mind as much about the fact that I had maxed my ranged weapon skill before I was a fifth of the way through the story.

My biggest WTF thing about Fable 2 is how every woman in Albion only seems to have one egg. Seriously, I wanted more than one child but I didn't want to have to marry one woman-per-child.

slightly-off-topic but does anybody have all 6 hero dolls? If you do please send me a message so I can get that achievement off of you.
 

Internet Kraken

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Mar 18, 2009
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LogicNProportion said:
Bioshock may indeed be overrated, but even if it is it still doesn't change that fact that most people would consider it be leagues ahead of Fable 2's story. Say what you will about Bioshock's story, but it does seem to be relatively free of plot holes, at least without intense examination of the story. There were definitely parts that confused me (Ryan apparently trying to kill you by killing Arcadia. That forest somehow provides oxygen for all of Rapture, so by doing that he is also killing himself. Unless he has some backup supply of oxygen. But even if he did, he'd still be ruining huge portions of the city he's trying to rebuild and I don't know how he intended to fix the trees.), but usually these parts were clearly just used to extend gameplay and had no actual impact on the overall plot. You could say that is a flaw in the story, and I myself would agree, but the point is that it doesn't tarnish the general perception of the plot.

Whatever flaws Bioshock's plot has pale in comparison to that of Fable 2's. The main story of Fable 2 is littered with plot holes. The whole thing drags you through a series of idiotic events that make your character and the antagonist look like fools. The potentially good characters don't have much depth to them so you can't really like them. The bad characters are even more shallow or are completely unlikable pricks. In the end, the story fizzles out in an anti-climax that has garnered infamy among gamers. So even if Bioshock's story isn't as great as it is made out to be, in comparison to Fable 2 it is a work of genius.

And for some reason it took me over 20 minutes to type this response because I kept deleting and rewriting parts of it. And in the end I probably didn't even explain the point I was trying to make properly. So yeah, I'm an idiot. You might as well disregard what I say because of that.
 

LogicNProportion

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Miumaru said:
I just want to say though, I think if Molyneux could magically make a game appear exactly as he wants it, it would be one of the best games ever. Ever.
And just like that, I have made a friend. ;]
 

Eagle Est1986

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Most of the hate is due to hype backlash. Peter Molyneux is a lying liar and when you finally get a game that you've been following the development for years, then it turns out a bunch of the cool stuff was just blatant lies, it's hard not to hate the game and the man.
Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad game by any means, it's just not the epic instant classic it could have so easily been.
Heck, Molyneux himself said several times that it was going to be the best RPG ever made. It was far from that, hell it was only just an RPG.
Microsoft marketing is always huge for their exclusive games, they will hype the balls off anything to sell it (look at the build up to Halo 3) and that mixed with Molyneux's rose tinted view of the game he was making, well it was just never gonna live up was it. Not even a little bit.

Edit: And oh yeah, I didn't even start on what was actually wrong with the game! My biggest greivance is that you have no free will to do anything. The choices, when they were there, were simply black and white, with no real reward or punishment either way. The only reason to be bad was for roleplay reasons.
You're made to blindy follow Theresa when it's clear she's got an agenda from the very beginning, there's simply no way around it.
Not to mention Reaver, who killed the only character in the game I liked and is a general all round douche but there's not a damnned thing you can do about it, it's stupid, where's the choice on things players actually care about? What with his seal, I can have it or this random NPC that I'll never see again can have it? Well that's a no brainer to start with, but on top of that I'm sure most players would have gone for the third option of destroying the thing or giving it back to Reaver, the player has no reason to want him to keep his youth.

Secondly, the no dying aspect. This was a terribly executed idea, what on Earth were they thinking? As soon as you get knocked out once or twice, you soon realise that it just doesn't matter, why even waste your money on potions? So you just stop caring about even trying in fights.

There are more but this would quickly end in a massive wall of text, so I'll leave it there for now.
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Mar 16, 2009
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Fable 2 was ok, but I think it's the only game I've ever played where co-op made the game worse, simply because of how poorly they handled it. I could nitpick about a lot of things, because it was by no means good, but that was the main problem I had with it. I'll probably pick up fable 3 though, since they're fixing it.
 

LogicNProportion

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Internet Kraken said:
LogicNProportion said:
Bioshock may indeed be overrated, but even if it is it still doesn't change that fact that most people would consider it be leagues ahead of Fable 2's story. Say what you will about Bioshock's story, but it does seem to be relatively free of plot holes, at least without intense examination of the story. There were definitely parts that confused me (Ryan apparently trying to kill you by killing Arcadia. That forest somehow provides oxygen for all of Rapture, so by doing that he is also killing himself. Unless he has some backup supply of oxygen. But even if he did, he'd still be ruining huge portions of the city he's trying to rebuild and I don't know how he intended to fix the trees.), but usually these parts were clearly just used to extend gameplay and had no actual impact on the overall plot. You could say that is a flaw in the story, and I myself would agree, but the point is that it doesn't tarnish the general perception of the plot.

Whatever flaws Bioshock's plot has pale in comparison to that of Fable 2's. The main story of Fable 2 is littered with plot holes. The whole thing drags you through a series of idiotic events that make your character and the antagonist look like fools. The potentially good characters don't have much depth to them so you can't really like them. The bad characters are even more shallow or are completely unlikable pricks. In the end, the story fizzles out in an anti-climax that has garnered infamy among gamers. So even if Bioshock's story isn't as great as it is made out to be, in comparison to Fable 2 it is a work of genius.

And for some reason it took me over 20 minutes to type this response because I kept deleting and rewriting parts of it. And in the end I probably didn't even explain the point I was trying to make properly. So yeah, I'm an idiot. You might as well disregard what I say because of that.
Aha, but this is where I'd like to point out a very important element on how the two games are made.

Bioshock was made to be...well...I really don't know what the developers exactly sought out to capture with Bioshock. Not because I'm a prick and acting snarky, it's because I literally don't know, and I'll admit that as I haven't done that portion of research. Regardless, despite borrowing themes from Ayn Rand and her novels, I doubt it supposed to be some sort of message about society. I think it was meant to (without looking anything up) be a sort of survival horror game that had a clever writer attached to it.

Fable, on the other hand...well...look at the title. Molyneux, points it out almost every review, that Fable is supposed to capture the elements of old-time stories about heroes, and dragons, and tyrants, etc. People in fables are typically one-dimensional, if you simply read them. It's all about 'our protagonist stops the bad guy'. Close the curtain. Sunrise, sunset.

Does this help my argument that fable 2 is not as bad as people make it out to be? Certainly not. Even if they perfectly crafted this idea, it still wouldn't be AMAZING. In that, it's more akin to someone saying "Well, that's what I meant to do." when someone says something about their drawing that's supposed to be derogatory. It just sounds petulant and immature.

So, of course, Bioshock has potential to be a masterpiece compared to Fable 2, even if Fable did itself up exactly how it wanted to do it. Point is, is that I think the guys behind Bioshock didn't quite make it...

Oh, and I don't mind at all. I like discussing no matter what, and I'm glad you READ this thing, nonetheless have been posting. You are not an idiot. And I shall not disregard what you say, for chances are...I have also failed to say what I meant to say on various posts on this topic! xD