Face/Off

[Squilookle]

Also, why was this movie loved and not Mission Impossible 2 derided and not this one. They were just as stupid

Because Mission Impossible 2 felt like a James Bond movie and not a MI movie.

There wasn't a single thing about MI:2 that was like James Bond. There was basically nothing in it that was like Mission Impossible either, which was the real problem with it. Face/Off had the advantage of coming out of nowhere without any preconceived expectations.

Yes, it felt like a low grade James Bond movie and I stand by that. MI2 lacked the team dynamic all of the other Mission Impossibles; even III, which was just a generic thriller by comparison. The lover interest is a generic girl-of-the-week who might as well not even exist in the later movies. The villain, Sean Ambrose, has more than a few similarities to Golden Eye's main baddie, Alec Trevelyan. Both are a rogue agent, evil version to the main hero (though Trevelyan is a former friend of Bonds while Ambrose and Hunt always disliked each other). Not to mention you had this weird dove symbolism for Ethan that does not work for character like him. I know doves is a Woo staple, but in a Mission Impossible movie that does not want to be one, but that is fucking nonsensical. MI2 is the Devil May Cry 2 of the MI movies in terms of being bizzaro entry and not lining up well with the rest of the series. Though MI2 can have entertaining moments, DMC2 is boring as hell. Say what you will about the other MI films (mainly 4-6), but at least they're closer to the TV series in spirit with the team dynamic and not completely turning in to the Ethan show.

All your points about MI:2 being the bizarro entry that isn't anything like the other M:Is is true, but it still isn't anything like Bond- the former colleage turned enemy is a well trodden path in movies, not just Goldeneye. I don't remember anyone saying the Expendables was a Bond knockoff, even though it did the same thing.

the low grade James Bond are the ones with the America stereotype being an obnoxious idiot from the Connery era (that they ripped off at the start of Despicable Me .)

The most frequent American we saw in Connery's time (and subsequent eras) was Felix Leiter, who's not only a competent agent in his own right, but Bond's best friend. Sure during the 60s films Americans in general are portrayed as overly paranoid about the Cold War, but in fairness... so were the real Americans.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Also, why was this movie loved and not Mission Impossible 2 derided and not this one. They were just as stupid

Because Mission Impossible 2 felt like a James Bond movie and not a MI movie.

There wasn't a single thing about MI:2 that was like James Bond. There was basically nothing in it that was like Mission Impossible either, which was the real problem with it. Face/Off had the advantage of coming out of nowhere without any preconceived expectations.

Yes, it felt like a low grade James Bond movie and I stand by that. MI2 lacked the team dynamic all of the other Mission Impossibles; even III, which was just a generic thriller by comparison. The lover interest is a generic girl-of-the-week who might as well not even exist in the later movies. The villain, Sean Ambrose, has more than a few similarities to Golden Eye's main baddie, Alec Trevelyan. Both are a rogue agent, evil version to the main hero (though Trevelyan is a former friend of Bonds while Ambrose and Hunt always disliked each other). Not to mention you had this weird dove symbolism for Ethan that does not work for character like him. I know doves is a Woo staple, but in a Mission Impossible movie that does not want to be one, but that is fucking nonsensical. MI2 is the Devil May Cry 2 of the MI movies in terms of being bizzaro entry and not lining up well with the rest of the series. Though MI2 can have entertaining moments, DMC2 is boring as hell. Say what you will about the other MI films (mainly 4-6), but at least they're closer to the TV series in spirit with the team dynamic and not completely turning in to the Ethan show.

All your points about MI:2 being the bizarro entry that isn't anything like the other M:Is is true, but it still isn't anything like Bond- the former colleage turned enemy is a well trodden path in movies, not just Goldeneye. I don't remember anyone saying the Expendables was a Bond knockoff, even though it did the same thing.

the low grade James Bond are the ones with the America stereotype being an obnoxious idiot from the Connery era (that they ripped off at the start of Despicable Me .)

The most frequent American we saw in Connery's time (and subsequent eras) was Felix Leiter, who's not only a competent agent in his own right, but Bond's best friend. Sure during the 60s films Americans in general are portrayed as overly paranoid about the Cold War, but in fairness... so were the real Americans.

I have a feeling they?re referring to Sheriff W.J. Pepper who made cringe inducing appearances in Live and Let Die and Man with the Golden Gun. His presence in the former was understandable since Bond was on his turf but running into Bond while on holiday in Thailand? Oof.

 

[Trunkage]

Also, why was this movie loved and not Mission Impossible 2 derided and not this one. They were just as stupid

Because Mission Impossible 2 felt like a James Bond movie and not a MI movie.

There wasn't a single thing about MI:2 that was like James Bond. There was basically nothing in it that was like Mission Impossible either, which was the real problem with it. Face/Off had the advantage of coming out of nowhere without any preconceived expectations.

Yes, it felt like a low grade James Bond movie and I stand by that. MI2 lacked the team dynamic all of the other Mission Impossibles; even III, which was just a generic thriller by comparison. The lover interest is a generic girl-of-the-week who might as well not even exist in the later movies. The villain, Sean Ambrose, has more than a few similarities to Golden Eye's main baddie, Alec Trevelyan. Both are a rogue agent, evil version to the main hero (though Trevelyan is a former friend of Bonds while Ambrose and Hunt always disliked each other). Not to mention you had this weird dove symbolism for Ethan that does not work for character like him. I know doves is a Woo staple, but in a Mission Impossible movie that does not want to be one, but that is fucking nonsensical. MI2 is the Devil May Cry 2 of the MI movies in terms of being bizzaro entry and not lining up well with the rest of the series. Though MI2 can have entertaining moments, DMC2 is boring as hell. Say what you will about the other MI films (mainly 4-6), but at least they're closer to the TV series in spirit with the team dynamic and not completely turning in to the Ethan show.

All your points about MI:2 being the bizarro entry that isn't anything like the other M:Is is true, but it still isn't anything like Bond- the former colleage turned enemy is a well trodden path in movies, not just Goldeneye. I don't remember anyone saying the Expendables was a Bond knockoff, even though it did the same thing.

the low grade James Bond are the ones with the America stereotype being an obnoxious idiot from the Connery era (that they ripped off at the start of Despicable Me .)

The most frequent American we saw in Connery's time (and subsequent eras) was Felix Leiter, who's not only a competent agent in his own right, but Bond's best friend. Sure during the 60s films Americans in general are portrayed as overly paranoid about the Cold War, but in fairness... so were the real Americans.

I have a feeling they?re referring to Sheriff W.J. Pepper who made cringe inducing appearances in Live and Let Die and Man with the Golden Gun. His presence in the former was understandable since Bond was on his turf but running into Bond while on holiday in Thailand? Oof.

That's the guy. Man with the Golden Gun is my worst Bond movie. An American idiot walking around permanently with a cock in his mouth doesn't help.

Those two movies seemed to have their budget halved compared to earlier movies. They look terrible

 

[BrawlMan]

All your points about MI:2 being the bizarro entry that isn't anything like the other M:Is is true, but it still isn't anything like Bond- the former colleage turned enemy is a well trodden path in movies, not just Goldeneye. I don't remember anyone saying the Expendables was a Bond knockoff, even though it did the same thing.

It is for me and several others feels like a Bond knockoff. That's my opinion and I am not going to change. It may not be 100% 007, but there are a lot elements there which I just listened.

 

[Squilookle]

All your points about MI:2 being the bizarro entry that isn't anything like the other M:Is is true, but it still isn't anything like Bond- the former colleage turned enemy is a well trodden path in movies, not just Goldeneye. I don't remember anyone saying the Expendables was a Bond knockoff, even though it did the same thing.

It is for me and several others feels like a Bond knockoff. That's my opinion and I am not going to change. It may not be 100% 007, but there are a lot elements there which I just listened.

Relax, buddy, I'm not trying to convert you from your cherry picking.

Man with the Golden Gun is my worst Bond movie. An American idiot walking around permanently with a cock in his mouth doesn't help.

Yeah Golden Gun was... not great. There's this running theory that every time a new actor comes in, they work extra hard at his first outing, and then they always get super lazy for movie number 2. TMWTGG certainly suffers that fate.

 

[BrawlMan]

All your points about MI:2 being the bizarro entry that isn't anything like the other M:Is is true, but it still isn't anything like Bond- the former colleage turned enemy is a well trodden path in movies, not just Goldeneye. I don't remember anyone saying the Expendables was a Bond knockoff, even though it did the same thing.

It is for me and several others feels like a Bond knockoff. That's my opinion and I am not going to change. It may not be 100% 007, but there are a lot elements there which I just listened.

Relax, buddy, I'm not trying to convert you from your cherry picking.

Man with the Golden Gun is my worst Bond movie. An American idiot walking around permanently with a cock in his mouth doesn't help.

Yeah Golden Gun was... not great. There's this running theory that every time a new actor comes in, they work extra hard at his first outing, and then they always get super lazy for movie number 2. TMWTGG certainly suffers that fate.

I never said you were trying to convert me, know did I imply it. And it's not cherry picking.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

I would call it a product of the 80s becuase so many people had to be on so many drugs.

Also, why was this movie loved and not Mission Impossible 2 derided and not this one. They were just as stupid

People still did drugs in the 90s, perhaps even moreso as there were further options being made commonly available such as the everloving MDMA! I can't speak for the MI2 thing, it's not been an area of interest for many years. Would hesitate to guess there's way more baggage with a sequel to a well-known series as opposed to a standalone film that colours people's opinions and expectations going in. One has a fresh start on a lovely clean plate, the other has...well, expectations I suppose.

 

[McElroy]

Ian McKellen and Donald Sutherland
in
Face/Off Again: Old Face

 

[Xprimentyl]

Dwayne Johnson and Kevin Hart.

Lol, yes, please.

Michael Cera and Jesse Eisenberg.

How would you tell the difference?

Exactly.

Fun fact, I looked them up, and had no idea they were two different people.

 

[Trunkage]

Merly streep and Geena Davis (I like that old face idea and I'm stealing it)
Glenn Close (when she was in the Shield) and Gary Busey. Because she looked far too much like Gary Busey
Copying the orginal idea for Face Off, I'm picking too meat head 'actors'. John Vena and Dave Bautista
Bond reunion - Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan

Michael Cera and Jesse Eisenberg.

How would you tell the difference?

Exactly.

Fun fact, I looked them up, and had no idea they were two different people.

Lol

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Also, why was this movie loved and not Mission Impossible 2 derided and not this one. They were just as stupid

Because Mission Impossible 2 felt like a James Bond movie and not a MI movie.

There wasn't a single thing about MI:2 that was like James Bond. There was basically nothing in it that was like Mission Impossible either, which was the real problem with it. Face/Off had the advantage of coming out of nowhere without any preconceived expectations.

Yes, it felt like a low grade James Bond movie and I stand by that. MI2 lacked the team dynamic all of the other Mission Impossibles; even III, which was just a generic thriller by comparison. The lover interest is a generic girl-of-the-week who might as well not even exist in the later movies. The villain, Sean Ambrose, has more than a few similarities to Golden Eye's main baddie, Alec Trevelyan. Both are a rogue agent, evil version to the main hero (though Trevelyan is a former friend of Bonds while Ambrose and Hunt always disliked each other). Not to mention you had this weird dove symbolism for Ethan that does not work for character like him. I know doves is a Woo staple, but in a Mission Impossible movie that does not want to be one, but that is fucking nonsensical. MI2 is the Devil May Cry 2 of the MI movies in terms of being bizzaro entry and not lining up well with the rest of the series. Though MI2 can have entertaining moments, DMC2 is boring as hell. Say what you will about the other MI films (mainly 4-6), but at least they're closer to the TV series in spirit with the team dynamic and not completely turning in to the Ethan show.

All your points about MI:2 being the bizarro entry that isn't anything like the other M:Is is true, but it still isn't anything like Bond- the former colleage turned enemy is a well trodden path in movies, not just Goldeneye. I don't remember anyone saying the Expendables was a Bond knockoff, even though it did the same thing.

the low grade James Bond are the ones with the America stereotype being an obnoxious idiot from the Connery era (that they ripped off at the start of Despicable Me .)

The most frequent American we saw in Connery's time (and subsequent eras) was Felix Leiter, who's not only a competent agent in his own right, but Bond's best friend. Sure during the 60s films Americans in general are portrayed as overly paranoid about the Cold War, but in fairness... so were the real Americans.

I have a feeling they?re referring to Sheriff W.J. Pepper who made cringe inducing appearances in Live and Let Die and Man with the Golden Gun. His presence in the former was understandable since Bond was on his turf but running into Bond while on holiday in Thailand? Oof.

That's the guy. Man with the Golden Gun is my worst Bond movie. An American idiot walking around permanently with a cock in his mouth doesn't help.

Those two movies seemed to have their budget halved compared to earlier movies. They look terrible

Man with The Golden Gun should have been on of the easiest six runs a Bond movie has ever bat. You had one of the arguable real life inspirations for the character playing the villain, who was also an actor of unparalleled skill. You had a good gimmick. Some great locations and one of the best ever stunts put to celluloid. Making it as not good as they did - that fucking slide whistle! - is almost an achievement unto itself. I still like it but thats because I?m fond of Roger Moore, Christopher Lee is magnetic as all fuck, and Lulu put her heart and soul into that opening number.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

Bond reunion - Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan

Only if they get Timothy Dalton to basically reprise his Hot Fuzz character. I could watch sneering pantomime Timothy Dalton all day

 

[Kwak]

Zac Galifinakis and Nick Frost

 

[jademunky]

The thing about Face-Off is that is was a bonkers premise acted with utter madness by the two leads but played completely straight other than that. I vaguely recall there was this "gritty" subplot about a super-high-tech-prison where everyone has these bulky magnetic bootie-things. OTOH that might've been another Nic Cage film.

Anyway, you could do that in the 90's and not be self-aware, at the time, that you were making a very silly product (or that you were walking into one).

 

[Squilookle]

Bond reunion - Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan

Only if they get Timothy Dalton to basically reprise his Hot Fuzz character. I could watch sneering pantomime Timothy Dalton all day

If that's the case, Brosnan would have to reprise his role from The World's End. Simon Pegg can come too- and play the wife.