"Fair" gaming

[nicholaxxx]

'Honor' has been dead for a while, so why people complain about something being unfair is beyond me, if you have such a problem with it being unfair, then use it and stop bitching about it in war, if given the choice between a heat seeking missle and one you have to lead your shot for manually, would you use the latter because the former is 'cheap' or 'unfair'? hell no! you would do what it takes to stay alive.


IMO anyway, because I'm apparently just one fo those freaks who can win in a n00b tube to ASSAULT RIFLE match up.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

i hate juggernaut dammit. Its a fair perk but infinity ward have my hate for making it. A sniper shot to the freakin chest should kill someone! Thye could have made it "body armor" with a running speed decrease that would be fine. I hate pumping tonnes of death into someone to find they are fine cus they are a jugganoob. On shipment i always have it in for players that use juggernoob and martyrdom. Thats a cheap trick. Its generally recognised now in Cod4 that using juggernaut is kinda unfair.

 

[StigmataDiaboli]

I don't find it fair when people 'camp' in corners for a long period of time and then pick people off as they just come round the corner. I mean I will stay in a certain spot for only a few seconds, and that's only to ambush an enemy or recover health. Sniping is different because that's how you're supposed to play it...sneaky and patiently.

Oh yeah and respawn killers. Good in games of Halo 3 on Griffball...bad in Call of Duty 4 team deathmatches.

 

[Sketchy]

Spawn camping is the only thing that really shits me. Anything else is pretty much fair.

 

[Mana Fiend]

Well, te only major multiplayer experience I've had is on Soul Calibur IV (not a huge FPS shooter fan), and I must say the most annoying thing that I would consider 'unfair' is when the same move is used repeatedly, especially if it knocks you down.

I don't mind being beaten by someone who's using a variety of combos, as it's fun to watch. However, someone who spams a move that knocks you down, then blasts you into the air onto your back, then repeats it so you're blasted into the air before you can recover, is you not being sportsmanly, in my view.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

People complain about overused weapons. I use to look over the Bungie.net forums and would see dozens of threads calling Rockets,Energy Swords, and Shotguns nooby. And 7/12 times the creator of the thread would have one of said weapons in his top 5 tools of destruction.

Why would you go so far as to bash a weapon that you have used to gain kills?

 

[Akai Shizuku]

I consider cheating and spawnkilling unfair. That is all.

 

[happysock]

All I could ever want to say is in this: read it. Please.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

This will probably make me a "scrub", but I found this article very...ignorant. Maybe I'm not just a serious gamer. But like, shure you may win with unbreakable combo's, or throwing the guy every time he gets within arms length, but where is the fun in that? Is his self esteem so low that he has to resort to win every game to feel good about himself? I think my example is Hero rushing in Halo Wars. Shure you will win every game, and shure the experts have their counters to this tactic, but is it realy worth it? Is a 5 minute win realy more fun than an hour and a half epic duel, involving clever tactics and plans, that you lost? Honnestly?

EDIT: Winning isn't everything I find.

I found this article pretty arrogant too, it seems the guy is one of those people who wants everyon to play as he does and can't accept it when others play different

 

[Nutcase]

That is a misunderstanding. Playing to win means playing as hard as you can and seeking to improve your game. The fun is not contingent on winning. You can have fun playing to win against a superior opponent while losing every time.

And nowhere does Sirlin claim PTW is the only way to have fun with a game. Just that it's one way.

He does claim that people who shun certain tactics because they find them less entertaining are "scrubs", does he not?

No. Not playing to win, having no skill, goofing off - none of these things makes a scrub*. Scrubs place artificial limitations on themselves and/or their opponents while believing to still be playing to win. They call things "cheap", "unfair" and "no skill" without making a serious effort at understanding, using and countering that thing, never mind checking how better players deal with it.

In other words, they're some 'lower' form of gamers and I'm not sure how to interpret that otherwise.

Scrubdom is a combination of ignorance, laziness, illogicality and/or hubris. Naturally those things lower a person.

* in the sense the article uses the word. Another, but separate, usage for the word means simply bad player.

 

[Chipperz]

That is a misunderstanding. Playing to win means playing as hard as you can and seeking to improve your game. The fun is not contingent on winning. You can have fun playing to win against a superior opponent while losing every time.

And nowhere does Sirlin claim PTW is the only way to have fun with a game. Just that it's one way.

He does claim that people who shun certain tactics because they find them less entertaining are "scrubs", does he not?

No. Not playing to win, having no skill, goofing off - none of these things makes a scrub*. Scrubs place artificial limitations on themselves and/or their opponents while believing to still be playing to win. They call things "cheap", "unfair" and "no skill" without making a serious effort at understanding, using and countering that thing, never mind checking how better players deal with it.

In other words, they're some 'lower' form of gamers and I'm not sure how to interpret that otherwise.

Scrubdom is a combination of ignorance, laziness, illogicality and/or hubris. Naturally those things lower a person.

* in the sense the article uses the word. Another, but separate, usage for the word means simply bad player.

I once played to win using only punches with Chun Li. Am I a scrub?

By the way... I won. Eight times in a row.

 

[brainless906]

something being "cheap" is irrelevant.
if it IS PART OF THE GAME, then grow a pair and learn how to overcome it.
Calling somebody "noob,nublet,nub-muffin" or any other variant of the word is simply the most "nooby" thing you can do, if you really consider yourself good in any sense of the word then you should have no problem getting rid of somebody so "nooby" regardless of what weapon they are using or weather or not they are sitting in the same corner every time.

What about spawn camping? I recall playing Day of Defeat, and sometimes a guy would be out of the sight of the spawn protect, but would be able to see people that spawned, and killed people as they came out. It took him some skill to get to his spot, as the spawn protect normally kills anyone that gets close. Do you think because that is part of the game, then it should be allowed?

If there spawn camping then kill them, no offence so anyone but if your spawning in the same spot and there are more then one of you and at least one of you have the slightest bit of skill you should have no problem killing him.i realize in DoD with the machine gun it is possible to spawn kill an entire team uber easily. However he does in fact have to reload at some point in time. its still part of the game. If he got there then YOU being the opposing team allowed him to get into this point of advantage, his skill was great enough to get there in the first place and stay there.

 

[Shy_Guy]

I even consider glitching fair. It is in the game. The developers either chose to not test their game properly or considered it not important enough. If glitches ruin the game, then that means the game is bad because to win you need to do stupid glitches as per the game rules.

Are you stupid? That makes no sense. Calling something a glitch implies that it's not meant to be in the game in the first place.

Simply saying that the developers were lazy and didn't test their game well enough is also pretty ignorant. Certain glitches are only known after hundreds of thousands of hours of play by hundreds of thousands of people. Not all glitches are found before game launch, or even in the month or two after. And sometimes, if the glitch is found after release it is too time-consuming and potentially game-breaking to try and fix. It's not that the developers don't want to, it's that it's not a viable option.

 

[oppp7]

Some weapons are cheap or overpowered. Example: rockets in Halo 3 or the artillery in Battlefield Bad Company.
Some styles of play are cheap. Example: spawn camping and taking builds from PvX wiki on Guild Wars.

 

[BonsaiK]

"Fair" is when I win. "Unfair" is when I don't win.

If my enemy used good, intelligent tactics to beat me that just makes it even more unfair. If they used cheats, hacks, glitches, cheap tactics, etc - that's not so bad, I can take solace in the fact that they had to resort to those things to beat me.

 

[DoctorWhat]

Weapons are not unfair. only tactics can be unfair. Spawn-killing? unfair. Glitching? unfair. Marty? fine. Rocket launcher? fine...

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I stopped giving a shit about being called cheap a long time ago.

I think it was when some guy called me a nOOb for using my G36C.

I think the nOOb tube is perfectly acceptable addition to your gun.

I really don't see how it is any more cheap than a team of four tenth prestige snipers hiding in the grassy knoll or the high buildings on crossfire, bringing the game to a paranoid standstill.

 

[soulasylum85]

i think if its in the game then sny player that is actually good should be able to find a way around it. but on the other hand i hate noob tubes and juggernauts in cod. also juggernauts with second chance suck, how bad do you have to be to need all that health?

 

[dark-amon]

What do you consider to be unfair conduct in gaming? Examples?

In the new Wolfenstein. If you're new and as the innocent player you are you enter one of the online-maps. Then you are killed by someone who has played the game longer than you even how experienced you are because he has leveled and has all kinds of boost that would make him able to kill you with his bare hands agains a shotgun... (maybe a little exaggeration but you get the drift.)

 

[TheGreatCoolEnergy]

Hmmm look my deffintion in who is a "noob" realy depends on how the rack in there kills. Lets use halo 3 for an example. Lets say Jimmy scores 6 points, all with rockets and lets say James scored 6 kills: 2 with sticky grenades and 4 with BR. Even though they both came up with the same score I would call Jimmy a noob because all his kills where with a one hit kill weapon. While BR's and Stickys takes alot of practise to become good with, any idoit can grab a rocket launcher and get an easy four kills. It is no coincidence that all new/inexpierenced players favourite weapons are either Sword, Rockets, or Shotgun.

I think you should learn to work around this. If he is constantly going for the rockets, camp the rockets. Rockets from long range are useless. I used to hate Pyro's (still do) in TF2 as a Scout. I learned to back away and weapon heckle them. While I do agree that some tactics are considered unfair, I won't harp on it. I believe a player's skill is based on their adaptability.

Yes and I do adapt. But it takes no skill to kill a man with a rocket launcher from 10 paces away while he is sniping. Maybe thats why rockets are always used first: No is skill involved in 75% of the kills made with it.

All I could ever want to say is in this: read it. Please.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

This will probably make me a "scrub", but I found this article very...ignorant. Maybe I'm not just a serious gamer. But like, shure you may win with unbreakable combo's, or throwing the guy every time he gets within arms length, but where is the fun in that? Is his self esteem so low that he has to resort to win every game to feel good about himself? I think my example is Hero rushing in Halo Wars. Shure you will win every game, and shure the experts have their counters to this tactic, but is it realy worth it? Is a 5 minute win realy more fun than an hour and a half epic duel, involving clever tactics and plans, that you lost? Honnestly?

EDIT: Winning isn't everything I find.

I found this article pretty arrogant too, it seems the guy is one of those people who wants everyon to play as he does and can't accept it when others play different

Not only that, but he seemed to be one of those people who would win at any cost. If that means camping, gliching, unbeatable/uncounterable attacks/combos, he would probably do it. Like just another over competitive person who forgot that there is a reason its called a video GAME.

 

[Auron555]

There's a difference between 'fair' and, for lack of a better word, 'cool'.
'Fair' is anything that's not hacked. 'Fair' is using any- and everything that the devs put in the game.
'Cool' is different. I'm using 'cool' as the antonym of lame here, btw. Rocket launchers at close range is cheap and lame. Sniping the same guy over and over, also camping, is fair, but lame. Being a Flak Monkey is fair, but to the aiming elite, it's lame.
An analogy would be bootlegging RB2 drum FCs: In Rock Band 2, to activate Overdrive (Star Power), the game cuts out a few measures every so often for you to perform a drum fill and activate. If you do activate, the fills disappear until you get more Star Power. If you don't, they stay. The first 100% of the hardest on-disc song, Visions, was bootlegged, meaning the person who did it never activated Overdrive, and thusly didn't play certain hard drum fills where other 100% runs had choked. This was fair, yes, but not cool at all and caused quite a stir in the expert drums community.