Fall of the U.S.?

Caligulove

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By the end of 2010? Damn. Short time table for shit to suddenly get real.

I doubt it would happen. I think most people who think that their state should secede are just being the rebellious kids to the 'totally lame parents' that they see as the US Govt.

But the Union has held together for just about 150 years. In that amount of time, I think we've had worse problems and actual crisis's that the country still made through. Sure some jackass in the South will talk about seceding or some kind of nostalgia for the Confederacy every few years- but I think the country can hold together. If the country ever topples, I imagine the entirety of it will.
 

Therumancer

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There have been plenty of nations who have predicted the fall of the US, and pretty much every other world power for that matter. It's sort of like end of the world propehecies, if it ever happens, chances are it will be on a date that someone predicted.

The problem with this prediction in paticular is that it's simply too soon, states the wrong reasons, and makes the assumption that certain world powers would be a factor in absorbing US territory that never could be, and even if they tried, would probably themselves end the US's breakup since an external threat is the fastest way to re-galavanize a people, especially if this is happening so quickly.

I point a finger at things like him claiming that Japan or China would take over Hawaii. More likely China would wind up invading Japan since the two nations hate each other, relations are only somewhat cordial because the US uses Japan as one of it's major naval bases and our foothold/tripwire in the Eastern World. That's one of the reasons why you don't see more anti-Americanism than you do from Japan, they realize that if we weren't there no "SSDF" or military they could rapidly put together after our departure would stop the payback parade. China, Korea, pretty much everyone in that region would want a piece.

Mexico is just going to come into Texas and take it over, just like that? Umm yeah, okay. I really see that one happening. Maybe they could take it eventually, but it would be a fight.

What's more it seems to be based on power fantasys/cultural self-validation. When someone starts talking about "moral collapse" as a motivation for a nation falling apart it generally means that someone is talking out of their rear. Also our economy and standard of living is still one of the most powerful/highest in the world, like anything that could change, but not instantly.

Now, one point that can be made about the US that is more valid is that by all rights we have the perfect formula for a civil war. In fact any other nation would have already had one, which is what I think bugs a lot of theorists and why a lot of people hate the US, we routinely do things that should be considered impossible. Simply put the US is contineuing to function with a society that is polarized pretty much 50-50, and for a long time now we've been seeing our leaders be elected with disturbingly small percentages of support. For example when Obama came into office with 57$% of the vote, that mean that 43% was against him, and that's a staggeringly small number for something like this. What's more the two major schools of thought in this country hate each other, and are in constant battle about almost everything.

In pretty much any other goverment a transition of power from Clinton to Bush and then from Bush to Obama would not have happened peacefully with the numbers being what they are. We've more or less made something work that no other nation has been able to, and that pretty much blows peoples minds.

The thing is that for all the arguements about gay rights, national policy, etc.. Americans have a pretty strong identity, and agree with enough things on a fundemental level where there aren't any disagreements stong enough that are leading to the average joe picking up a gun and going after the other side en masse.... and we're better armed (on a per-citizen basis) than most nations. Other nations just don't get it, especially seeing as they couldn't keep going in situations like this. Laziness isn't there, it's just that our society was designed to always be in conflict with itself to some extent, and for nothing to get done easily, and for the most part there is no real issue that has angered anything but a fringe to the point where they are willing to head out with machine guns and pipe bombs to try and kill the other side.... partially because we specifically built our goverment with enough checks and balances that even if you killed The President, or took out most of Congress, things would still keep going. The amount of damage you'd need to do to force a regime change (effectively) would be staggering and by that time there wouldn't be much of a nation left, and even most of the potential whack jobs realize that.

Ahh well, enough rambling. I suspect we'll be here through 2010 just fine. :p


On the other hand the US will eventually fall. It will likely happen two ways: One, due to not acting quickly or pre-emptively we're destroyed by a rising foreign power after a war, China is the current potential culprit for this given their build up and the issues involved. Two, we disband the US ourselves as part of acheiving a global unity, when other nations dissolve into a world goverment, so do we.
 

seryoga

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we will fall apart someday, probably someday soon, but not this year
however when we do fracture i will be willing to take up arms for the new california republic
 

MatsVS

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Nov 9, 2009
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I predict that America will implode under its own weight as your commercialism, consumerism, arrogance, ignorance, decadence, hypocrisy and racism merges into a giant ball of anti-culture and seeps into your very foundations and festers and crumbles and rots. It'll be grand.

Until then, though, I hope you'll churn out some amusing video games which I can use to occupy some of my spare time.
 

Miumaru

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VanityGirl said:
Sure, let the US fall. Hope everyone else in the world's economy doesn't go in a downward spiral.. oh wait.

No, the US won't fall. People think we all hate each other, but I'm not sure where they get that idea. I love my fellow American regardless of race, age or background.
No amount of economic strain would cause me to just hate someone based on skin color (and I'm Southern!).

Miumaru said:
As for Texas supposedly seceding, good. That means they wont have any say in voting, and one less red state is a good thing if it means equal rights will be a real thing.
Wow... Because no one outside of Texas would ever sterotype. Sorry if I was offense, but I fail to see the logic there.
So Republicans=Racist/Elitist and Democrats=Equal Rights? :| That's kind of what I took from your post.
No, conservatives = Racist/Elitists. But conservatives dont = Republicans since republicans care about politics, and conservatives care about judginh everyone with the law and ignoring seperation of church and state. I am aware not all Texans are bad, considering that most of my xbox live friends are actually texans and cept for one, are anything but hateful bigots.
Texas is always a red state though, and most republicans going for offices are actually conservatives who give republicans a horrible name. O'Reily, Beck, Bush, Cheney, McCain, Palin. These people are big conservative players (yes 2 are just "news people" but still important enough) and are all just bad people.

Not all democrats are good, however it seems equal rights IS a dem thing. Not saying it should be though, since equal rights should not even BE a political stance and just be something we have.
 

Ekibiogami

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not_the_dm said:
Ekibiogami said:
direkiller said:
The Random One said:
The only way the US could fall is if it lost some sort of huge war in a huge way and its territory was conquered/balkanized. Can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

The parts of the US that are the angriest about such things are the same ones who consider themselves to be the core part of the country. Seceding would not help them prove any point.

Although if there was any chance of the US falling, say hello to the republics of Texas and California. (Pretty sure the US Constitution still allows a state to secede at any time. Come to think of it, if the US was balkanized by an outside force all of the states could secede to reorganize themselves in a way that hurt them less - keeping the farm belt together, etc.)
The articles of confederation(what govern our country for the first 10 years or so and floped honorably) did let states to succeed the Constitution dose not hence our civil war and Whiskey Rebellion


when i looked at the map all i saw was this

I'm willing to put Money on the Blue south not going to Mexico... Heck I'm fairly sure we alone could Whoop them again. :p
What's the betting that Mexico would be conquered by the Texan Republic?
I'd say Odds are High that we would Whip them hard. ;p
Were talking about The old south here. If its just Texas Id be a little more Worried that we would just have to stop at being a Republic again. But with all of the South, AND Mexico being a S.... *Blank Blank* right now. Yeah Id put Money on Us. :)
 

masakoz

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Mar 12, 2009
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Pimppeter2 said:
Eh, according to him I'm going to be Canadian in a couple weeks.

Quick, what do I do?!?!

I don't even know how to make an Igloo!
oh.my.god
 

ZephrC

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Commissar Sae said:
And then your economy collapses into third world levels when no one else will lend you money...

Edit: Apparently I clicked to reply to the wrong person. Ah well. Alright so 13 Trillion is still plenty though. I think cut backs would do wonders to pay down that debt. I'd start with reducing the military, since the dick waving contest with Russia is over and the need for so much new hardware is pretty much gone.
Oh, our economy may not be the global juggernaut it used to be, but it's actually in fairly decent shape still. It had a loooong way to fall from where it was twenty years ago after all. We still have plenty of time to fix it, but we won't because our education is failing. That's the real source of our problem, and I'm afraid it'll result in a decent into isolationism and fascism before it leads to economic collapse. (Not to imply that either of our political parties are fascist. They aren't. They're both slowly trending that way though, and very few people seem to mind.)
 

masakoz

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i would imagine my republic of cali leader to be like the cole train.oh god that would be soooooooooo bad ass
 

Dancingman

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vento 231 said:
The Random One said:
The only way the US could fall is if it lost some sort of huge war in a huge way and its territory was conquered/balkanized. Can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

The parts of the US that are the angriest about such things are the same ones who consider themselves to be the core part of the country. Seceding would not help them prove any point.

Although if there was any chance of the US falling, say hello to the republics of Texas and California. (Pretty sure the US Constitution still allows a state to secede at any time. Come to think of it, if the US was balkanized by an outside force all of the states could secede to reorganize themselves in a way that hurt them less - keeping the farm belt together, etc.)
California would fall rather quickly, so I don't think it'll be a good move.
Uh... no it wouldn't? We have a huge amount of military installations (which we would probably would retain in the event of a breakup of the Union) and even if they did get knocked over we'd have the economy to build up one of, if not the strongest in the North American continent (not counting Canada and assuming the rest of the US broke apart along with us).
 

Yureina

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Dancingman said:
vento 231 said:
The Random One said:
The only way the US could fall is if it lost some sort of huge war in a huge way and its territory was conquered/balkanized. Can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

The parts of the US that are the angriest about such things are the same ones who consider themselves to be the core part of the country. Seceding would not help them prove any point.

Although if there was any chance of the US falling, say hello to the republics of Texas and California. (Pretty sure the US Constitution still allows a state to secede at any time. Come to think of it, if the US was balkanized by an outside force all of the states could secede to reorganize themselves in a way that hurt them less - keeping the farm belt together, etc.)
California would fall rather quickly, so I don't think it'll be a good move.
Uh... no it wouldn't? We have a huge amount of military installations (which we would probably would retain in the event of a breakup of the Union) and even if they did get knocked over we'd have the economy to build up one of, if not the strongest in the North American continent (not counting Canada and assuming the rest of the US broke apart along with us).
You also forgot that California is, last I checked, the world's 5th biggest economy and ~1/10th of the USA's population. If the USA split, California would probably do pretty freaking well by itself.
 

Dancingman

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Yureina said:
Dancingman said:
vento 231 said:
The Random One said:
The only way the US could fall is if it lost some sort of huge war in a huge way and its territory was conquered/balkanized. Can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

The parts of the US that are the angriest about such things are the same ones who consider themselves to be the core part of the country. Seceding would not help them prove any point.

Although if there was any chance of the US falling, say hello to the republics of Texas and California. (Pretty sure the US Constitution still allows a state to secede at any time. Come to think of it, if the US was balkanized by an outside force all of the states could secede to reorganize themselves in a way that hurt them less - keeping the farm belt together, etc.)
California would fall rather quickly, so I don't think it'll be a good move.
Uh... no it wouldn't? We have a huge amount of military installations (which we would probably would retain in the event of a breakup of the Union) and even if they did get knocked over we'd have the economy to build up one of, if not the strongest in the North American continent (not counting Canada and assuming the rest of the US broke apart along with us).
You also forgot that California is, last I checked, the world's 5th biggest economy and ~1/10th of the USA's population. If the USA split, California would probably do pretty freaking well by itself.
Are you talking to me or the dude I quoted? I said roughly the same thing though I didn't have statistics, that said, yeah we'd still be a force to be reckoned with, Mexico can try and take us back, please Mexico do try, we need a Casus Belli and more territory, you can give us the former with an invasion, the latter after we send their armies running to Guatemala.
 

Yureina

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Dancingman said:
Yureina said:
Dancingman said:
vento 231 said:
The Random One said:
The only way the US could fall is if it lost some sort of huge war in a huge way and its territory was conquered/balkanized. Can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

The parts of the US that are the angriest about such things are the same ones who consider themselves to be the core part of the country. Seceding would not help them prove any point.

Although if there was any chance of the US falling, say hello to the republics of Texas and California. (Pretty sure the US Constitution still allows a state to secede at any time. Come to think of it, if the US was balkanized by an outside force all of the states could secede to reorganize themselves in a way that hurt them less - keeping the farm belt together, etc.)
California would fall rather quickly, so I don't think it'll be a good move.
Uh... no it wouldn't? We have a huge amount of military installations (which we would probably would retain in the event of a breakup of the Union) and even if they did get knocked over we'd have the economy to build up one of, if not the strongest in the North American continent (not counting Canada and assuming the rest of the US broke apart along with us).
You also forgot that California is, last I checked, the world's 5th biggest economy and ~1/10th of the USA's population. If the USA split, California would probably do pretty freaking well by itself.
Are you talking to me or the dude I quoted? I said roughly the same thing though I didn't have statistics, that said, yeah we'd still be a force to be reckoned with, Mexico can try and take us back, please Mexico do try, we need a Casus Belli and more territory, you can give us the former with an invasion, the latter after we send their armies running to Guatemala.
Just adding to what you said. :)
 

Cain_Zeros

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Pimppeter2 said:
Eh, according to him I'm going to be Canadian in a couple weeks.

Quick, what do I do?!?!

I don't even know how to make an Igloo!
Don't worry, we're all polite 'n such. I'm sure someone'll be happy to instruct you in proper Igloo-building technique.
 

AyaReiko

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Actually, I'll theorize there are two ways the US could crumble. Both of them highly improbable, but plausible.

1) Economic collapse-- With Financial "Reform" passing last week, the stage is set for another implosion like the one of Sept. '08. Except it could be even bigger. This is due to the "reform" and other "reforms" doing nothing to curtail any of the problems that led to the need for reform in the first place.

2) Political collapse-- A fraudulant election (that gets exposed) should do the trick. Mass protests would ensue. Government cracks down. Secessions eventually follow. Possible martial law. More rebellions follow. Continue downward spiral.

Though neither I'd expect this year. 2012, otoh....
 

Kiju

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blalien said:
Well the governor of Texas did threaten to secede. So there's that.
Yeah. I still am sort of laughing at that...sure, they have oil and whatnot, but oh well? That's one state against the entirety of the US. We'd just take it back, and the moron who seceded the state would be the only one to blame for the death that ensued.

I'm not entirely sure the US will break apart or 'fall' any-time soon. Russia hasn't exactly been our staunch allies ever since the Cold War broke out. Even after we kissed and made up, they still weren't our BFF or anything, so of course they'd be talking about that...just like Republicans thinking tax cuts are the best thing to do when the country has no money. The fact there's a black President is making a lot of Southern states nervous/enraged, possibly not enough to break down into the second Civil War, but it's certainly driving a larger wedge.
 

Commissar Sae

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ZephrC said:
Commissar Sae said:
And then your economy collapses into third world levels when no one else will lend you money...

Edit: Apparently I clicked to reply to the wrong person. Ah well. Alright so 13 Trillion is still plenty though. I think cut backs would do wonders to pay down that debt. I'd start with reducing the military, since the dick waving contest with Russia is over and the need for so much new hardware is pretty much gone.
Oh, our economy may not be the global juggernaut it used to be, but it's actually in fairly decent shape still. It had a loooong way to fall from where it was twenty years ago after all. We still have plenty of time to fix it, but we won't because our education is failing. That's the real source of our problem, and I'm afraid it'll result in a decent into isolationism and fascism before it leads to economic collapse. (Not to imply that either of our political parties are fascist. They aren't. They're both slowly trending that way though, and very few people seem to mind.)
Yeah the economic collapse line was for the guy who declared the US should basically just steal the money.
It would actually be pretty easy to create a neo-fascist state in most of the world when you look at it. All you really need is a charismatic leader who promotes extreme nationalism and absolutism over other states. Considering the general political climate in the US, an ambitious politician could push the country in that direction disturbingly easily IMO.
 

Circleseer

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awsome117 said:
So while browsing another forum, I came across this [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html] basically predicts the United States would break apart by the end of 2010.

Personally, I do not believe this for two reasons:

Less serious 1: We're too lazy to break apart. Would be too much effort for us.

More serious 2: Yes, we have internal problems, but not enough to "break apart".

It should also be noted this was predicted by a Russian. So yah. Take it as you will.



That he's Russian just means that the has experience with countries breaking down.
 

Nickolai77

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Pilkingtube said:
Nickolai77 said:
Pilkingtube said:
Nickolai77 said:
Pilkingtube said:
I.. nobody seems to have pointed out that, the EU wouldn't want the US.. it's the EUROPEAN Union, Japan has as much of a chance as joining as a piece of the US does =/

I.. I want Japan to join the EU now, gief better trading relations plz :(
Heh, screw a European Union, we want a world union!!
..You mean the UN?
The EU and the UN are quite different things, both are instutions of political co-operation, only that the EU takes it to a deeper level. You'd need a "world union" if you want economic intergration with Japan.
Or.. we could just like, move Japan to near-ish Iceland and all is well, plus I can go to England when I want to then lol xD
Sounds like we have a plan, we'll tow Japan around the tip of south America, drag it up the north Atlantic and put it near Iceland. We should do the same New Zealand, beutiful little island sat in the middle of no-where. We'll have to leave Australia though, we could never fit it round South America or South Africa.
 

Danny Ocean

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Jun 28, 2008
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Feriluce said:
Danny Ocean said:
I'm thinking EU+US+Can+Greenland+Israel+India+Australia+JapanVSChina, Russia, India, Indochina.
India can be divided.
There's a huge amount of possibilities for this IP, you should pitch it.
Greenland is still a part of Denmark which is part of the EU. Also how can india be on both sides?
So what? The sides still work.

Because there's often more than one kind of person in a country? It's not hard to imagine the poor vs.Middle Class and Rich. It's what's happening in Thailand, it's just that in India there's be far more poor people.

Gotta wonder why you're picking holes in some childish fantasy.