Fallout Fan Takes On Bethesda's Lawyers

[TheDrunkNinja]

When they did this shit with Mojang, everybody overlooked the simple fact that the laws regarding trademarks required Bethesda to take legal action else they lose the Elder Scrolls trademark rights in any future case.

Incorrect (unless you live in Germany, and maybe not even there now)

The Berne Convention makes that whole 'you didn't go after them, why go after me?' argument moot. Creators can choose to either enforce their right or not, at their discretion on a case-by-case basis. Further, some rights to a work can never be ceded away from the creator.

The problem here is that Bethesda's works in question are highly derivative themselves, and this means that they *might* not have any grounds to sue at all, depending on how strictly the judge chooses to interpret the term 'original artist'.

I'm paraphrasing and not up on legal terms. Essentially, this is what I'm referring to:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113531-Bethesda-Doesnt-Enjoy-Being-Forced-into-Mojang-Lawsuit

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

ITS NOT THE SAME FUCKING NAME

One is called "scrolls" the other is called "the elder scrolls"

that is like saying that Star Wars should have sued Star Trek, or Star Chaser, or any title that shared one word with it.

Yeah, it's stupid and illogical, but it's just the way it is. What do you expect from something as fucked as the copyright system of law? ZeniMax didn't lie when they said they had no choice but to sue. If you don't like it, blame it on the system for being a piece of shit like I do.

 

[Sandytimeman]

ITS NOT THE SAME FUCKING NAME

One is called "scrolls" the other is called "the elder scrolls"

that is like saying that Star Wars should have sued Star Trek, or Star Chaser, or any title that shared one word with it.

Yeah, it's stupid and illogical, but it's just the way it is. What do you expect from something as fucked as the copyright system of law? ZeniMax didn't lie when they said they had no choice but to sue. If you don't like it, blame it on the system for being a piece of shit like I do.

Just because there is a law doesn't mean you have to follow it. Espically if its not a fair or just law.

I didn't see Blizzard lining up to sue Majong over mineCRAFT because they didn't want it to be confused with StarCRAFT or warCRAFT. And yet I'm pretty sure Blizzard/Activision still owns the rights to both those IP.

Because Bethesda is putting itself in a position where it is forced to fight with smaller companies over small common words in titles, because if they don't they will loose their entire franchise. Yet some of the biggest franchise in the world don't behave in this manner to protect their copyrights.

Obviously Bethesda is doing something retarded. As such this company wont see a dime of my money to fund their legal battles against small fan sites and indie devs.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Just because there is a law doesn't mean you have to follow it. Espically if its not a fair or just law.

I didn't see Blizzard lining up to sue Majong over mineCRAFT because they didn't want it to be confused with StarCRAFT or warCRAFT. And yet I'm pretty sure Blizzard/Activision still owns the rights to both those IP.

Because Bethesda is putting itself in a position where it is forced to fight with smaller companies over small common words in titles, because if they don't they will loose their entire franchise. Yet some of the biggest franchise in the world don't behave in this manner to protect their copyrights.

Obviously Bethesda is doing something retarded. As such this company wont see a dime of my money to fund their legal battles against small fan sites and indie devs.

You make it sound so much simpler than it is.

Too bad it isn't.

 

[Lucem712]

This is odd to say the least. There are entire sites dedicated to their IPs. Nukapedia, The Vault, No Mutants Allowed and not to mention all the TES fansites; Hell, someone is starting a whole fan series.

There must be something else, otherwise Bethesda would be attack all sorts of sites.

 

[Sandytimeman]

Just because there is a law doesn't mean you have to follow it. Espically if its not a fair or just law.

I didn't see Blizzard lining up to sue Majong over mineCRAFT because they didn't want it to be confused with StarCRAFT or warCRAFT. And yet I'm pretty sure Blizzard/Activision still owns the rights to both those IP.

Because Bethesda is putting itself in a position where it is forced to fight with smaller companies over small common words in titles, because if they don't they will loose their entire franchise. Yet some of the biggest franchise in the world don't behave in this manner to protect their copyrights.

Obviously Bethesda is doing something retarded. As such this company wont see a dime of my money to fund their legal battles against small fan sites and indie devs.

You make it sound so much simpler than it is.

Too bad it isn't.

It is that simple, for instance: Shadowrun has never sued a fan site for posting homebrewed art and materials. Yet Bethesda hunts those kinds of people down. The basics of it is that Bethesda has alot of passionate and awesome people working for them. But their legal department wants to make sure that no one ever becomes inspired or god forbid shares that inspiration of their IPs.

I can imagine a cosplayer getting tackled by bouncers at the next convention who strip the person of the costume and give them a Bestheda stamped lawsuit.

Edit: Shit, I still feel guilty of my purchase of Morrowind because that probably contributed funds to the unjust interplay lawsuit.

 

[DiamanteGeeza]

They have an automated system which scans these sites and send these letters to possible copyright infringers, this is more of an accident than anything.

LOL. This is the funniest comment I've read all day.

Yep, that's absolutely how C&D orders are sent out - via spambot. Absolutely no consultation with the legal council in case they're sending it to the wrong people (The Police wrote a song called Fall Out decades ago... will Sting be receiving these robotic C&D orders?).

And let me guess... this amazing piece of scanning software compares every image on every site and it can judge if an image is almost like a Fallout image....? Wow, that's pretty clever stuff! They should hire the guy that wrote the AI for their magical site scanner and put him to work on their in-game AI! ;-)

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/BrandProtect-Automates-Brand-Cease-and-Desist-Enforcement-and-Workflow-1305737.htm

Also google scans the internet for similar pictures when you reverse image search, I don't see why their program couldn't.

I think they would list the sites that aren't infringing on an exception list, and since this site is most likely fairly new it got snatched up.

Note the use of actual humans in the blurb you linked to. This C&D wasn't some automated thing sent out by a lawyer-bot, a human decided to issue it.

There is no such thing as an automatic scan-and-send-C&D system... can you imagine how much trouble a company would get into if it left issuing legal complaints to a computer?! There is always a human behind it.

 

[razer17]

Yeah, I don't know whether to cheer for Anderson or not...but what I don't understand is is he making money off the fallout posters? Cause if he is then, yeah, Bethesda has every right to sue.

If he's not and it's just like a gallery of art then I think Bethesda is taking it too far.

He had no adverts on his site and he paid for the web hosting and domain name himself, he wasn't making money. Edit - Just realised this is the 4th page, so I hope I'm not the twentieth person to quote this.

This is good, I always like to see David take on Goliath's lawyers when they are being ridiculous.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

It is that simple...

Pff, actually put some effort into understanding and studying the case and the copyright law it follows before basing your entire argument on assumptions.

I'm going to be honest with you. I don't understand all the copyright legal shit myself. What I do understand is that it's complicated. It's not something to rationalize. It's not simple. It's never going to be simple. That's why I wash my hands of it and go out of my way not to make erroneous and uninformed claims about a system I have no knowledge of. I suggest you do the same.

... for instance: Shadowrun has never sued a fan site for posting homebrewed art and materials. Yet Bethesda hunts those kinds of people down. The basics of it is that Bethesda has alot of passionate and awesome people working for them.

You've made more assumptions on legal issues than any actual basis this entire discussion. You've so far put all of your argument's backing into assuming that all cases for copyright and trademark issues that involve similar names are the same with no regard for differing situations, the specific trademark rights that each company holds, or the subsequent consequences that each company will pay for if they do or don't dispute the issues.

It's very easy to rationalize that these cases should be simple. They. Aren't.

People are far too willing to take an issue that is in the gray and make it a black and white case with a villain and an underdog trying to overcome the villain. Really, people just sucker themselves into believing in the "evil corporate lawyer" stereotype because they don't understand or try to understand the underlying legal issues.

It's easier to just vilify them, right? That way everything's simple, right?

Fucking hell.

But their legal department wants to make sure that no one ever becomes inspired or god forbid shares that inspiration of their IPs.

What did I just say about that vilifying shit?

I can imagine a cosplayer getting tackled by bouncers at the next convention who strip the person of the costume and give them a Bestheda stamped lawsuit.

What did I just say?!

Edit: Shit, I still feel guilty of my purchase of Morrowind because that probably contributed funds to the unjust interplay lawsuit.

Fuck it. I'm done. You can believe what you want.

 

[Sandytimeman]

snip

I'm not saying I understand the complexity of laws made to be unintelligible by non-legal scholars. I am however saying they had a choice to launch the legal works or not. Somewhere someone in the company is giving the go ahead. Maybe even multiple people.

They are making the decision that as a company this is how they will treat these situations. I am not happy with said resolutions of Bethesda and so I will not be buying any more of their products. It is exactly that simple for me.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

I'm not saying I understand the complexity of laws made to be unintelligible by non-legal scholars. I am however saying they had a choice to launch the legal works or not. Somewhere someone in the company is giving the go ahead. Maybe even multiple people.

They are making the decision that as a company this is how they will treat these situations. I am not happy with said resolutions of Bethesda and so I will not be buying any more of their products. It is exactly that simple for me.

And that's why it isn't for me. You've condemned them for the action, but you won't even spare a thought to the reason for it.

There are no villains, only those that see them as such.

 

[Dogstile]

I'm not saying I understand the complexity of laws made to be unintelligible by non-legal scholars. I am however saying they had a choice to launch the legal works or not. Somewhere someone in the company is giving the go ahead. Maybe even multiple people.

They are making the decision that as a company this is how they will treat these situations. I am not happy with said resolutions of Bethesda and so I will not be buying any more of their products. It is exactly that simple for me.

There are no villains, only those that see them as such.

Oh god I hate that phrase. That phrase can be applied to almost anything to make it seem less bad. *shudders*

OT: Not gonna take sides yet, we've read one report and we know almost nothing about it.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Oh god I hate that phrase. That phrase can be applied to almost anything to make it seem less bad. *shudders*

OT: Not gonna take sides yet, we've read one report and we know almost nothing about it.

The way I used that phrase was to convey the very ideal of not taking anyone's side.

I.E., there are no villains in this situation, therefore I'm not taking sides.

 

[locke]

Bethesda must hate its fans

 

[Stealthfighterx]

They have an automated system which scans these sites and send these letters to possible copyright infringers, this is more of an accident than anything.

LOL. This is the funniest comment I've read all day.

Yep, that's absolutely how C&D orders are sent out - via spambot. Absolutely no consultation with the legal council in case they're sending it to the wrong people (The Police wrote a song called Fall Out decades ago... will Sting be receiving these robotic C&D orders?).

And let me guess... this amazing piece of scanning software compares every image on every site and it can judge if an image is almost like a Fallout image....? Wow, that's pretty clever stuff! They should hire the guy that wrote the AI for their magical site scanner and put him to work on their in-game AI! ;-)

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/BrandProtect-Automates-Brand-Cease-and-Desist-Enforcement-and-Workflow-1305737.htm

Also google scans the internet for similar pictures when you reverse image search, I don't see why their program couldn't.

I think they would list the sites that aren't infringing on an exception list, and since this site is most likely fairly new it got snatched up.

Note the use of actual humans in the blurb you linked to. This C&D wasn't some automated thing sent out by a lawyer-bot, a human decided to issue it.

There is no such thing as an automatic scan-and-send-C&D system... can you imagine how much trouble a company would get into if it left issuing legal complaints to a computer?! There is always a human behind it.

Yeah sure, but humans can still make mistakes too, my point was that it's most likely that it's a mistake, pissing of fans would be bad PR and they obviously don't want that.

 

[Necrofudge]

More than anything, I'm just sad that I didn't hear about this website until corporate whoring ruined it.

Won't stop me from buying their games though...

 

[That_Sneaky_Camper]

I'm surprised they didn't go after DeviantArt what with all the fan art they have. Going after non-profit fan art is utterly ridiculous.

 

[PinkiePyro]

Bethesda should go take some pointers from Nintendo and Hasbro on how to handle copyright stuff
seriously the guy was just offering free posters to download



But hay at least they arnt as bad as EA lol

 

[The Youth Counselor]

They have an automated system which scans these sites and send these letters to possible copyright infringers, this is more of an accident than anything.

Then more then this site would be recieving news coverage if that is the case. Theres a lawsuit floating about which a robot wouldn't be allowed to do due to mistakes made if this is one.

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Same thing I said above, Bethesda's lawyers are very bad at their jobs, and don't understand any law except copyright ones.[/quote]

I don't mean to speak for Stealthfighter's original intent, but I thought he was joking.

Then I thought about it more, and it's the only explanation I can think of for the illogical bullying way Bethesda conducts tort.

 

[Krion_Vark]

Yeah, I don't know whether to cheer for Anderson or not...but what I don't understand is is he making money off the fallout posters? Cause if he is then, yeah, Bethesda has every right to sue.

If he's not and it's just like a gallery of art then I think Bethesda is taking it too far.

They're 100% free, he's not making a profit.

I wonder what the fallout of this case will be. I want him to win just for the lolz.

Be careful there, you might get sued. You don't have the amount of money that Notch has to fight back.

And he has also taken some pictures STRAIGHT FROM THE GAME ITSELF.
I have seen 2 out of those three posters in the article in the game itself. Most of the pictures might be fan made or maybe he made all of them but he also made them look exactly like those that were in the game itself.