Fans Tear New Mass Effect Book to Shreds

[Vanitas likes Bubbles]

Thank god for us fanboys right. Anyway i dont even read the books, comics ect. I only play the games so i couldn't care less. Yes i am one of those TL;DR people dont judge me.

 

[Warachia]

-snip-

I don't know much about autism. So is it possible to be exactly the same as everyone else, with no symptoms at all?
In the second book Gillian is 12 and in Deception, she's 18 and no one in the book even mentions that she was autistic. Now it seems like she only had some anger issues, like a phase she went through as a kid, although in the second book she had been diagnosed with autism.
Like I said, I don't know much about autism, is this possible?

No. An autistic person, no matter how high functioning will have symptoms that would seperate them from everyone else no matter how hard they tried to hide it, best that would happen is imitating somebody else in terms of mannerisms, but even if that was the case, their thought processes would be different in how they think about things and how they view the world around them, that you cannot change.

Okay, two problems there, 1. that isn't growing out of autism, that's learning how to effectively live with it, and 2. the book doesn't even mention the character as having autism in the past, and from what we see of the character, they work just like everybody else, meaning the author barely glanced at the previous novel let alone read it.

It's possible for a child to lose the autism-diagnosis when they grow up.
But I haven't read the books, so I have no idea how high-functioning the character was, or how she 'recovered'.

Yes, it is possible to lose the diagnosis, but (as mentioned above) that person would still be different in how they think and view things, it wouldn't be as a normal person. Incidentally, if you are wondering how she "recovered" (a stupid phrase as it assumes that autism is a form of sickness) she doesn't. It's never mentioned in the book, aside from saying she had "anger issues". This book is just genuinely a terrible read, even taken on it's own merits.

 

[Lieju]

Yes, it is possible to lose the diagnosis, but (as mentioned above) that person would still be different in how they think and view things, it wouldn't be as a normal person. Incidentally, if you are wondering how she "recovered" (a stupid phrase as it assumes that autism is a form of sickness) she doesn't. It's never mentioned in the book, aside from saying she had "anger issues". This book is just genuinely a terrible read, even taken on it's own merits.

But what defines what is considered 'normal' anyway? Especially in a society that includes aliens and strange environments such as spaceships.
I am aware of how difficult a subject autism is, especially since there are a lot of quacks who take advantage of families with such issues and make BS promises about 'curing' autism.

But based on what I read from the Mass effect wiki, this character's condition might have been caused by biotic medical experimentation, so while she might have had behaviour similar to what would be classified as autism, the actual causes behind it might have been very different from non-scifi examples.

But based on what mistakes the writer made, not only in lore and technology, but characterization as well, its probably bad writing. And ignoring continuity.

BTW, was Gillian referred as 'autistic' in the previous books? As in, was she diagnosed as that by the doctors in the Mass Effect universe?

 

[Beryl77]

BTW, was Gillian referred as 'autistic' in the previous books? As in, was she diagnosed as that by the doctors in the Mass Effect universe?

In Ascension, she herself once said that she's autistic. It's once shortly mentioned that Cerberus doctors had diagnosed her mental condition when she was very young.

 

[Terminate421]

http://social.bioware.com/uploads_user/741000/740385/30367.gif<color= blue>
Ah yes "fact checking". The act of checking factual assertions in a text intended for publication to determine the veracity and correctness of statements made there in. The job requires general knowledge and the ability to conduct quick and accurate research.
We have discontinued this practice

I laughed so hard there is rootbeer on my keyboard....thanks.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

I read half of the Google Doc and WOW. Where was the editor during all this? And why didn't the author study the lore?

Let's ignore the fact that I already have severe issues with how EA currently handles things, and I already doubt the sincerity and integrity of Bioware.

The 'editor' has even less clue about anything, the writer was a hired gun who obviously was just tasked with throwing a new product on the market. He obviously was given free reign and did not even care enough to check the wiki for established rules. If there even was an editor, I wouldn't be surprised to see him/her being a student paid minimal wages, having absolutely no idea what all this science fiction nonsense is all about.

These things happen if the only interest is selling the product at the lowest possible cost, in the shortest possible amount of time. It's also the prime reason to dump original and established writers and thinkers. Some people instantly blame capitalism for this phenomenon, I'd like to blame cheapskates, idiots, flocks of lawyer sheep and schools of underwater marketing folk sharks drugged out of their minds.

 

[luckshot]

Yes, it is possible to lose the diagnosis, but (as mentioned above) that person would still be different in how they think and view things, it wouldn't be as a normal person. Incidentally, if you are wondering how she "recovered" (a stupid phrase as it assumes that autism is a form of sickness) she doesn't. It's never mentioned in the book, aside from saying she had "anger issues". This book is just genuinely a terrible read, even taken on it's own merits.

But what defines what is considered 'normal' anyway? Especially in a society that includes aliens and strange environments such as spaceships.
I am aware of how difficult a subject autism is, especially since there are a lot of quacks who take advantage of families with such issues and make BS promises about 'curing' autism.

But based on what I read from the Mass effect wiki, this character's condition might have been caused by biotic medical experimentation, so while she might have had behaviour similar to what would be classified as autism, the actual causes behind it might have been very different from non-scifi examples.

But based on what mistakes the writer made, not only in lore and technology, but characterization as well, its probably bad writing. And ignoring continuity.

BTW, was Gillian referred as 'autistic' in the previous books? As in, was she diagnosed as that by the doctors in the Mass Effect universe?

you would define normal behavior the same way we do now, compared to other humans.
we dont compare humans behavior to that of an elephant to diagnose mental problems so why would the future ppl compare one to an krogan or other species

and from what little i understand yes severe brain trauma can cause life long autism like symptoms...in other words the she probably would not have 'grown out' of a mental disability genetic or otherwise

 

[Lieju]

you would define normal behavior the same way we do now, compared to other humans.
we dont compare humans behavior to that of an elephant to diagnose mental problems so why would the future ppl compare one to an krogan or other species

Except that what is considered 'normal' changes from culture to culture. And if the people have a lot of contact with aliens who have very different behaviour from humans, it might give a different perspective. People who would be considered atypical in our society would be basically normal compared to some aliens, and so might not stand out.

What is considered a mental problem changes depending from your perspective and the demands the society puts on you. For example, let's say a person is very agoraphobic, and would have real issues living in a farm society. But if living in small enclosed spaceships is the norm, they'd not have any problem with it.
And in fact not being scared of wide open spaces would be considered odd behaviour.

and from what little i understand yes severe brain trauma can cause life long autism like symptoms...in other words the she probably would not have 'grown out' of a mental disability genetic or otherwise

I checked out the Bioware forums, and someone there wrote that she had been drugged, and gradually the effect of the drug had started to wear off, lessening her symptoms.

But I haven't read the books, and quite frankly it seems the writer just ignored continuity and that she ever had autism.

 

[Dr. Paine]

And the thing is, as someone who read a 55 page excerpt of the novel, the errors are glaring at times. Some on that list are nitpicky, but others are simple facts. Example:

- Two characters are now 18 when they were 12/13 at the end of ME1, which is said to have taken place two years prior
- One of those characters was also Autistic, now they aren't
- Biotics are now suddenly ranked by power level and can level up if they gain enough experience
- A character who was dead is now alive
- A character who is known as a racist and was introduced to us by talking about how much he hates the Asari now thinks Asari are hot
- Many others (Just look how long that list is!)

Believe me, the list also ignores the simply amateurish writing (Characters getting killed by a sharpened toothbrush, another character stealing cereal to prove how much of a badass he is). It takes actual effort to have this many errors. You have to intentionally ignore the source material when it's staring you in the face.

There's hitting the mark, missing the mark, and shooting yourself in the foot. This book picks the third option.

bwuh? Gillian is no longer autistic? But that was one of her major characteristics , they made a whole point about the fact that she got picked on because she ate her food in parts for goodness sake.

There's not doing the research and then there's just writing with your head in the sand.

According to Dietz you can just get over autism.

:|

I don't care if they fix the errors in this book.

That one handwave alone has killed it for me unless they get Drew writing again. I have a severely autistic brother, and Gillian Grayson was the only instance I've come across in fiction of an autistic character who actually fit the diagnosis.

To see that get reduced to a 'troubled phase' and/or an effect of the drugs she was given? I honestly feel sick. ... besides, the drugs worsening it doesn't make much sense, considering what Cerberus was trying to do. If anything, they probably included some kind of cocktail to make her better functioning. The last thing you'd want to do to any supersoldier is give them anything that would reduce their ability to function. At least, in Cerberus' case, they actually seem to do stuff properly.

 

[Warachia]

Yes, it is possible to lose the diagnosis, but (as mentioned above) that person would still be different in how they think and view things, it wouldn't be as a normal person. Incidentally, if you are wondering how she "recovered" (a stupid phrase as it assumes that autism is a form of sickness) she doesn't. It's never mentioned in the book, aside from saying she had "anger issues". This book is just genuinely a terrible read, even taken on it's own merits.

But what defines what is considered 'normal' anyway? Especially in a society that includes aliens and strange environments such as spaceships.
I am aware of how difficult a subject autism is, especially since there are a lot of quacks who take advantage of families with such issues and make BS promises about 'curing' autism.

But based on what I read from the Mass effect wiki, this character's condition might have been caused by biotic medical experimentation, so while she might have had behaviour similar to what would be classified as autism, the actual causes behind it might have been very different from non-scifi examples.

But based on what mistakes the writer made, not only in lore and technology, but characterization as well, its probably bad writing. And ignoring continuity.

BTW, was Gillian referred as 'autistic' in the previous books? As in, was she diagnosed as that by the doctors in the Mass Effect universe?

Yes, she is referred to as autistic, and reflects it in her character (high functioning autistic in case you are wondering). I don't know who diagnosed her, but I'd assume a doctor and I was pretty sure she was autistic before the biotic experimentations, even if those are what caused her to be like she is it's even less likely that she would be a normal person in deception as mental scarring is harder to overcome than simply learning how to act in society.

I admit a discussion on what is "normal" in that kind of universe is an interesting one, but would probably be wasted on this book where everyone is out of character.

 

[michael87cn]

Fans Tear New Mass Effect Book to Shreds

The novel Mass Effect: Deception is getting torn to shreds by fans who have found multiple errors and inconsistencies.

Book tie-ins to popular videogame franchises are hardly a new fad. In fact, I recall checking out S.D. Perry's Mass Effect: Deception [http://www.amazon.com/Umbrella-Conspiracy-Resident-Evil/dp/0671024396/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328027398&sr=8-1].

Fans of the series have gone through the novel very thoroughly and complied a massive fire [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBpMF3ONlI308D9IGG8KICBHfWKU0sXh0ntukv-_cmo/preview?pli=1&sle=true] out of frustration.

Here are a few (remarkably thorough) examples of mistakes found by fans:

[blockquote] 10. Batarian pirates slave-raid on the turian homeworld of Palaven - while not impossible, this is incredibly unlikely due to the militaristic nature of turian society, one consequence of which is possession of one of the largest military fleets in the galaxy. And even if there had been a raid on Palaven, the turians would have likely responded with overwhelming military force. [Error: Lore][/blockquote]
[blockquote] 27. Two volus are described as wearing masks that don't completely cover their faces - This would result in instant death for a volus, as they must wear completely sealed environmental suits that provide both the ammonia atmosphere and high pressure they require to survive, and keep them isolated from the oxygen-nitrogen mixture breathed by other species, which is poisonous to them. [Error: Lore][/blockquote]
[blockquote] 4. Hand Weapons that fire at "relativistic speeds" - for those who don't know it the term, relativistic speed means close or apprising the speed of light. The term is usually used when talking about speeds higher than 10% of C - considering that a sand corn fired of those speeds will have the impact of 90 kg TNT and also that a main gun on a Everest class dreadnought only fires at 1.3% of C I would say that relativistic speeds might be a bit high. [Error: Technology][/blockquote]

Unlike the previous novels, which were written by Mass Effect's Lead Writer Drew Karpyshyn, Deception is written by William C. Dietz. A veteran author of several original sci-fi novels and many others based off Halo, Starcraft, and Resistance: Fall of Man, Deception marks his first foray into the Mass Effect universe. Sadly though, it doesn't look like anyone at at EA or BioWare did much proof-reading of Dietz's novel, let alone provide him with a guidebook on how the ME universe works... Like the comprehensive codex [http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex] found right in the games.

Source: Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5880729/]


Permalink

Examples 10. and 4. are silly. Something may be unlikely but that doesn't mean its impossible or doesn't belong in the lore. Real history is littered with unlikely events. Also, its FICTION, real life science does not apply.

This is over-nerdy on a Star Trekkian scale. Actually, worse, because Mass Effect isn't even a television series with real people. Its just a game.

Boohoooo. . . . . >_>

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I checked out the Bioware forums, and someone there wrote that she had been drugged, and gradually the effect of the drug had started to wear off, lessening her symptoms.

But I haven't read the books, and quite frankly it seems the writer just ignored continuity and that she ever had autism.

Here's the thing - Gillian was autistic BEFORE Cerberus started drugging her. The drugs (which appear to be similar to anti-psychotics) caused her to regress further into herself - when she was removed from the drugs, her regression symptoms lessened. This did not cure her autism - it made her social issues slightly less severe.

In Ascension (novel 2), she was able to talk after being taken off the drugs, whereas she was nearly mute on the drugs. Again, this makes the drugs effects seem similar to what anti-schizophrenia drugs do when given to someone who doesn't have schizophrenia. When the drugs are removed, the subject will "clear up" but still have whatever underlying issue caused them to be misdiagnosed in the first place.

Also, Gillian didn't HAVE any anger issues in Ascension. She was completely calm - until she 'snapped' and her biotic powers went out of control. She wasn't angry, she was upset (it was a frustration tantrum in response to her disrupted routine, not anger at the teasing).

So when novel 4 mentions "anger issues" it simply repents the fact that the author had no clue what happened in the previous novels. I'm not even sure Dietz knew that autism featured in the previous book.

Which, for me, is the worse offense - he didn't READ the previous books that he was writing a direct sequel to.

 

[Lieju]

So when novel 4 mentions "anger issues" it simply repents the fact that the author had no clue what happened in the previous novels. I'm not even sure Dietz knew that autism featured in the previous book.

Which, for me, is the worse offense - he didn't READ the previous books that he was writing a direct sequel to.

Yes, it seems he didn't know much about the characters.
And it sounds like it was very rushed job, as there apparently are a LOT of names misspelled, and characters confused with each other.

Which makes it seem like there was no proofreading or editor.

I don't know how much I'm blaming the author, he's a hired pen, after all. It's more a fault of whoever handed the job to him, and possibly rushed it.

I would guess someone in the marketing or somewhere wanted to get it out the same time ME3 was, and that caused all these other issues.

Examples 10. and 4. are silly. Something may be unlikely but that doesn't mean its impossible or doesn't belong in the lore. Real history is littered with unlikely events. Also, its FICTION, real life science does not apply.

This is over-nerdy on a Star Trekkian scale. Actually, worse, because Mass Effect isn't even a television series with real people. Its just a game.

Boohoooo. . . . . >_>

Hate to break it to you, but those Star Trek aliens aren't actually real, either.

In any case, this book is bad. And that's coming from someone who thinks nerds over-react a lot.

It's so full of mistakes and oddities it feels like the person writing had no good grasp of the universe he was writing for, it doesn't follow the characterizations from the previous books, and it's just badly written (with a pointless plot) in general.

Maybe its not the most important of causes, but I think its good people protest against cheap cash-ins with no proper quality control.

 

[I Max95]

i knew about this already, Bioware even said that they will be re-releasing the Novel with the errors fixed. i'm not convinced however, because to do that they would have to make it so that a major character in deception suddenly reverts back to being autistic (Dietz forgot that issue) this would effectivly remove a character from the storyline, and make it so the story would have to be completely re written, as i understand she is very important to the story, hell she's on it's cover
...
or maybe not, i don't know, i never read the thing


on another note, why does Garrus and Ashley/Kaiden get cool new looks, when Tali and Liara just look exactly the same. up until i saw the screenshot on this thread i was convinced they'd change Tali's looks but no

 

[Nieroshai]

Fans Tear New Mass Effect Book to Shreds

The novel Mass Effect: Deception is getting torn to shreds by fans who have found multiple errors and inconsistencies.

Book tie-ins to popular videogame franchises are hardly a new fad. In fact, I recall checking out S.D. Perry's Mass Effect: Deception [http://www.amazon.com/Umbrella-Conspiracy-Resident-Evil/dp/0671024396/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328027398&sr=8-1].

Fans of the series have gone through the novel very thoroughly and complied a massive fire [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBpMF3ONlI308D9IGG8KICBHfWKU0sXh0ntukv-_cmo/preview?pli=1&sle=true] out of frustration.

Here are a few (remarkably thorough) examples of mistakes found by fans:

[blockquote] 10. Batarian pirates slave-raid on the turian homeworld of Palaven - while not impossible, this is incredibly unlikely due to the militaristic nature of turian society, one consequence of which is possession of one of the largest military fleets in the galaxy. And even if there had been a raid on Palaven, the turians would have likely responded with overwhelming military force. [Error: Lore][/blockquote]
[blockquote] 27. Two volus are described as wearing masks that don't completely cover their faces - This would result in instant death for a volus, as they must wear completely sealed environmental suits that provide both the ammonia atmosphere and high pressure they require to survive, and keep them isolated from the oxygen-nitrogen mixture breathed by other species, which is poisonous to them. [Error: Lore][/blockquote]
[blockquote] 4. Hand Weapons that fire at "relativistic speeds" - for those who don't know it the term, relativistic speed means close or apprising the speed of light. The term is usually used when talking about speeds higher than 10% of C - considering that a sand corn fired of those speeds will have the impact of 90 kg TNT and also that a main gun on a Everest class dreadnought only fires at 1.3% of C I would say that relativistic speeds might be a bit high. [Error: Technology][/blockquote]

Unlike the previous novels, which were written by Mass Effect's Lead Writer Drew Karpyshyn, Deception is written by William C. Dietz. A veteran author of several original sci-fi novels and many others based off Halo, Starcraft, and Resistance: Fall of Man, Deception marks his first foray into the Mass Effect universe. Sadly though, it doesn't look like anyone at at EA or BioWare did much proof-reading of Dietz's novel, let alone provide him with a guidebook on how the ME universe works... Like the comprehensive codex [http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex] found right in the games.

Source: Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5880729/]


Permalink

Examples 10. and 4. are silly. Something may be unlikely but that doesn't mean its impossible or doesn't belong in the lore. Real history is littered with unlikely events. Also, its FICTION, real life science does not apply.

This is over-nerdy on a Star Trekkian scale. Actually, worse, because Mass Effect isn't even a television series with real people. Its just a game.

Boohoooo. . . . . >_>

So in your opinion, a live-action space cowboy can be taken more seriously than a tactically-minded CG character voiced by a real human, portrayed with far more pressing concerns. Both read from scripts, only difference is visibility. Or is it just that video games are by default not as serious a medium as primetime television yet to possibly be relevant? I really must understand this train of thought, as to why trekkies nitpicking over minutiae are to be taken more seriously than general fans of a game trilogy being upset about blatant inconsistencies. Even so, you are complaining about fandom on a fandom site. You seriously are surprised about hearing an abnormal amount of fan criticism. Is The Escapist really the site for you? The reason this site stays going is because fans enjoy the minutiae of their favorite things. Especially with the comedy shows like Unforgotten Realms and Doraleous gone.

 

[Britisheagle]

A shame that their idea of quality control is releasing a book that doesn't match up with their own established lore and allowing the, now disappointed, fans have to pick up on the sometimes quite obvious errors.

 

[SillyBear]

Examples 10. and 4. are silly.

I don't think example 10 is silly.

It's the equivalent of someone trying to tell you that a group of pirates successfully raided the USA and took slaves.

No chance of that happening. They would be hunted down and crushed.

 

[SickBritKid]

Element Zero is just a name given to the star-plasma infused metal that makes Mass Effect possible. It doesn't necessarily mean that it has no protons/neutrons.

So way to fail.

Element Zero (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo'...

the atomic number (also known as the proton number) is the number of protons found in the nucleus of an atom

Way to fail at calling a fail.

Let's do a little test.
A 5.56mm NATO round has muzzle energy of about 1700 joules, so that's what we're trying to achieve. A grain of sand has the mass of 1 milligram. If we use the formula for kinetic energy, the velocity required for a 1 mg grain to impact with the energy of a rifle round is 58,310 m/s. The speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s, which means that the grain reaches 0.00019c.

If a grain of sand is launched at light-speed, as you said, it would have a kinetic energy of 44,937,758,936 joules, which the in-game weapons obviously don't. Guess the weapons aren't that relativistic after all!

*checks maths*

I made a mistake somewhere. You're right. There wouldn't be any noticeable relativistic effects at that sort of speed.

I'm only JUST starting Chemistry again for college, so way to be a dick.

From what I recalled, the number was the protons AND the neutrons in an atom, not just protons. Obviously, I was wrong.

But, in that case, how would that make Element Zero impossible considering that it could just have neutrons in the nucleus and no protons?

 

[Daverson]

Element Zero is just a name given to the star-plasma infused metal that makes Mass Effect possible. It doesn't necessarily mean that it has no protons/neutrons.

So way to fail.

Element Zero (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo'...

the atomic number (also known as the proton number) is the number of protons found in the nucleus of an atom

Way to fail at calling a fail.

I'm only JUST starting Chemistry again for college, so way to be a dick.

From what I recalled, the number was the protons AND the neutrons in an atom, not just protons. Obviously, I was wrong.

But, in that case, how would that make Element Zero impossible considering that it could just have neutrons in the nucleus and no protons?

I could explain why you can't just have neutrons in a nucleus, but honestly, I've got better things to do with my time. Read this: http://www.askamathematician.com/2010/09/q-why-cant-you-have-an-atom-made-entirely-out-of-neutrons/

 

[SickBritKid]

Element Zero is just a name given to the star-plasma infused metal that makes Mass Effect possible. It doesn't necessarily mean that it has no protons/neutrons.

So way to fail.

Element Zero (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo'...

the atomic number (also known as the proton number) is the number of protons found in the nucleus of an atom

Way to fail at calling a fail.

I'm only JUST starting Chemistry again for college, so way to be a dick.

From what I recalled, the number was the protons AND the neutrons in an atom, not just protons. Obviously, I was wrong.

But, in that case, how would that make Element Zero impossible considering that it could just have neutrons in the nucleus and no protons?

I could explain why you can't just have neutrons in a nucleus, but honestly, I've got better things to do with my time. Read this: http://www.askamathematician.com/2010/09/q-why-cant-you-have-an-atom-made-entirely-out-of-neutrons/

Okay, fine.

However, there's no real proof that Element Zero is actually composed of zero protons, other than it being listed with the number of 0 on the wiki. For all we know, Element Zero's not really on the Periodic Table and was simply given its name due to, as said before in this topic, the fact that it simply IS, much like Zeroth Laws used in other forms of science. They're not ACTUALLY 0, but they're called that due to their nature of fundamental contradiction/perversion of the numbered ones, much like V.I.K.I.'s whole invention of the Zeroth Law of AI in the I, Robot movie to justify the whole world conquest and suppression of the human race and stuff.

Same case with Element Zero. It's called that because it represents an impossibility that is actually quite possible(scientists are basically discovering Eezo in the LHC as we speak) and presents the possibility of space travel due to the energy given off by its God-particle-like properties.

The likes of Michio Kaku have praised Mass Effect's use of Einstein's Loophole(the fact that the Theory of Relativity only factors in positive matter in its calculations of travel close to or at the speed of light) in order to explain the space travel, after all...