Fascism

[Lyiat]

For the love of god would people stop labeling everything oppressive or evil as fascist.
That goes double for those of you have no understanding of what fascism is.

Seriously the level of ignorance some people on this forum regularly display irritates me no end. Fascism is the final stage in human social evolution, so don't attach to term to every right wing dictatorship, they are fascist in the same way every war torn African dictatorship who label themselves as democrats are democratic.

Does this annoy anyone else or am I the only one who likes to occasionally dream of Starfleet Command Ironfisted Fascist Utopian style rule?

I figure if commies can complain me as a Authoritarian can complain as well.

For the love of god would people stop labelling everything oppressive or evil as communist.
That goes double for those of you have no understanding of what communism is.

"Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.

Seriously the level of ignorance some people on this forum regularly display irritates me no end. Communism is the final stage in human social evoloution, so don't attach to term to every left wing dictatorship, they are communist in the same way every war torn African dictatorship who labell themselves as democrats are democratic.

Does this annoy anyone else or am I the only one who likes to occasionally dream of utopia?

For the love of god would people stop making the same exact bloody post as ones made a few hours before! Seriously the level of ignorance some people on this forum regularly display irritates me no end. Does this annoy anyone else or am I the only one who likes to read unique topics from time to time?

(And yes, I'm aware of what I did there.)

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Just in case anyone was wondering (hah, right) Fascism and Communism are essentially the same, they differ only in one tiny detail. Fascism is State control of the economy via giving orders to the people who "own" stuff (own in quotes there because if someone else is telling you what to do with it, you don't really "own" it). In Communism, the state just outright takes everything over and "owns" everything collectively and "democratically", which in practice means whoever can rustle up the biggest gang of mindless idiots calls the shots.

That person is generally called "Father"--Father Hitler, Father Stalin, Father Castro, take your pick. Although Mao was "Chairman", so the father thing appears not to be universal.

Incorrect on all counts. Fascism doesn't own the means of production in fact Mussolini thought the owning of the means of production by people not skilled in its proper application was ludicrious you have to remember Mussolini was a former Socialist. Fascism in actual application created Corporate Councils in which Corporations could discuss proper economic strategies that would support the State Apparatus so yes in a way you are right it does hinder free marketing but then again it wouldn't be Authoritarianism if Corporations were allowed to work for themselves. The idea of Fascism is the State is the supreme being that matters and that if the State fails so do the people thus it entwines itself with the people in order to try and make a cohesive whole.

 

[The Great Fa]

If this is a joke and you don't really care, then ha ha. But if it isn't, and you do, then I am behind you sir.

Of course I'm serious Fascism is the Political Ideology...with no real ideology behind it hence its great anything can be fascist really.

As Mussolini the Father of Fascism said and I am roughly paraphrasing, "If it works who cares about theory?"

Maybe I misread your initial post. I thought I saw someone standing up for police states and I quite lost my mind in excitement. I have re-read and re-evaluated said post. My bad.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

If this is a joke and you don't really care, then ha ha. But if it isn't, and you do, then I am behind you sir.

Of course I'm serious Fascism is the Political Ideology...with no real ideology behind it hence its great anything can be fascist really.

As Mussolini the Father of Fascism said and I am roughly paraphrasing, "If it works who cares about theory?"

Maybe I misread your initial post. I thought I saw someone standing up for police states and I quite lost my mind in excitement. I have re-read and re-evaluated said post. My bad.

No, I am quite serious but I am having a go with some communists who were recently complaining about communism getting a bad rap.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Incorrect on all counts. Fascism doesn't own the means of production in fact Mussolini thought the owning of the means of production by people not skilled in its proper application was ludicrious you have to remember Mussolini was a former Socialist.

Um, yes I know, dumbass, which is why I said that Fascism issues orders (in terms of quotas or whatever) as its version of the centrally-planned economy rather than taking things over outright. I was just pointing out how silly it is to say that you "own" something when you're taking orders on what and how much and when and how you can do anything with it.

The idea of Fascism is the State is the supreme being that matters and that if the State fails so do the people thus it entwines itself with the people in order to try and make a cohesive whole.

Yes, this is the ideal of ALL collectivist and statist philosophies, socialism, communism, whatever. They just rename the group, calling it "the State" or "Society" or "The Class". It's The Group as God--the same fundamental principle regardless of incidental details.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Incorrect on all counts. Fascism doesn't own the means of production in fact Mussolini thought the owning of the means of production by people not skilled in its proper application was ludicrious you have to remember Mussolini was a former Socialist.

Um, yes I know, dumbass, which is why I said that Fascism issues orders (in terms of quotas or whatever) as its version of the centrally-planned economy rather than taking things over outright. I was just pointing out how silly it is to say that you "own" something when you're taking orders on what and how much and when and how you can do anything with it.

The idea of Fascism is the State is the supreme being that matters and that if the State fails so do the people thus it entwines itself with the people in order to try and make a cohesive whole.

Yes, this is the ideal of ALL collectivist and statist philosophies, socialism, communism, whatever. They just rename the group, calling it "the State" or "Society" or "The Class". It's The Group as God--the same fundamental principle regardless of incidental details.

Completely incorrect because Fascism wishes to maintain the current Class Structure it has nothing in common with the Communists who wish to abolish, kill and liquidate classes they consider undesirable. Now don't go bringing the Nazis into this because they are not Fascist they took some lessons from it just like they did with Socialism just ask the Strausser brothers. So I don't really see any connection other then you are reaching to make one. Fascism makes the State supreme and touts Nationalism as healthy the same with how it promotes Militarism. Oh yes and nice ad-hom.

 

[JMeganSnow]

So I don't really see any connection other then you are reaching to make one. Fascism makes the State supreme and touts Nationalism as healthy the same with how it promotes Militarism. Oh yes and nice ad-hom.

You see no connection between three different flavors of centrally planned economy? You're going to downgrade from dumbass to nitwit at this rate. It's like saying you see no connection between three different flavors of Popsicle. Here's a news flash for you. They're all Popsicles.

Fundamentally, there are two and ONLY two flavors of government: statism and freedom, and as with all dysfunctional things there are a million flavors of screwed up and only one flavor of good. You could call it the Anna Karenina principle: All happy marriages are the same, but every unhappy one is unhappy in its own way.

Someone interested in cognitive clarity has enough sense to dump them all in the same bin, label them Trash, and move on.

 

[The Great Fa]

Alright I'm just gonna come out with it. I think police state authoritarian rule is the way to go. No, really. I think liberal societies are too soft and far too accommodating. The more I go on living and seeing what's going on around me, the more distressed I become. The vast majority of people seem to be concerned for little else besides their own convenience. So many people believe in nothing besides that, and the concept fills me with too many negative emotions to describe.

It seems like society caters to these people (I blame Hollywood and corporations, mostly). I like to think that if we lived in a place where there were no freedoms, no second chances, no good will from the state, if such a society could be successfully created (which it probably can't), we would be rid of this weak mentality that has overcome us. Just dreamin', just dreamin'...

 

[Rajin Cajun]

So I don't really see any connection other then you are reaching to make one. Fascism makes the State supreme and touts Nationalism as healthy the same with how it promotes Militarism. Oh yes and nice ad-hom.

You see no connection between three different flavors of centrally planned economy? You're going to downgrade from dumbass to nitwit at this rate. It's like saying you see no connection between three different flavors of Popsicle. Here's a news flash for you. They're all Popsicles.

Fundamentally, there are two and ONLY two flavors of government: statism and freedom, and as with all dysfunctional things there are a million flavors of screwed up and only one flavor of good. You could call it the Anna Karenina principle: All happy marriages are the same, but every unhappy one is unhappy in its own way.

Someone interested in cognitive clarity has enough sense to dump them all in the same bin, label them Trash, and move on.

LMAO This coming from a lover of Ayn Rand who can only spout her political line? It is alright keep spouting ad-homs and go play on the highway young child.

 

[geldonyetich]

Fascism.
Communism.
Socialism.
Democracy.

All broad labels with many interpretations and methods of execution.
All simple systems for whom a claim they are our ultimate destiny is selling short our capacity to invent something better some day.
All fundamentally useless in the face of dealing with the harm ignorance can bring.

I'll start throwing around words like "ultimate utopian future prospect" when humankind has grown up enough that politics isn't a game of herding cats.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Fascism.
Communism.
Socialism.
Democracy.

All broad labels with many interpretations and methods of execution.
All simple systems for whom a claim they are our ultimate destiny is selling short our capacity to invent something better some day.
All fundamentally useless in the face of dealing with the harm ignorance can bring.

I'll start throwing around words like "ultimate utopian future prospect" when humankind has grown up enough that politics isn't a game of herding cats.

Except humans are a worse species then cats. I mean you don't see cats going around raping and killing each other or just being general level fuckwits to see how much destruction they can cause. Human nature brings about the need for an Authoritarian State to keep order.

 

[Dys]

Just in case anyone was wondering (hah, right) Fascism and Communism are essentially the same, they differ only in one tiny detail. Fascism is State control of the economy via giving orders to the people who "own" stuff (own in quotes there because if someone else is telling you what to do with it, you don't really "own" it). In Communism, the state just outright takes everything over and "owns" everything collectively and "democratically", which in practice means whoever can rustle up the biggest gang of mindless idiots calls the shots.

That person is generally called "Father"--Father Hitler, Father Stalin, Father Castro, take your pick. Although Mao was "Chairman", so the father thing appears not to be universal.

I know this entire thread is a joke, mostly to bait me for being a dirty commie etc etc etc.
But I'm not sure I can actually let that slide, as it's just so wrong.

Democracy: Everyone has equal say over every policiy. This does not mean the general public elects a leader to make all decisions for them.
Communism: Is a form of democracy where the equal power thing is taken a step forward, and it becomes impossible for there to ever be a single or group of leaders, everyone is given equal access to (and only to) necissary supplies. You can still make your own money and have your own items (except no real estate)
Fascism: Everyone works together for the good of the state

Fascist governments typically seek to prepare a nation for armed conflict with other nations, to defend itself or to expand its state to allow for the growth of a nation. Fascists aim to create a single-party state in which the government is led by a dictator who directs a nation towards collective unity by limiting or rejecting individual self interests, rights and liberties and by requiring individuals to contribute to, obey and fight for the interests of the nation (as defined by the state).

Just to really let it sink in, Communism and Fascism are the opposite extremes of left (liberal) and right (conservative) governments respectively. They could not possibly be more different.

 

[geldonyetich]

Except humans are a worse species then cats. I mean you don't see cats going around raping and killing each other or just being general level fuckwits to see how much destruction they can cause. Human nature brings about the need for an Authoritarian State to keep order.

An excellent prospect.

Now all we need to do is find some perfect non-humans to, irrevocably and with absolute power, form the backbone of our Authoritarians.

God said he's sort of hoping we can learn to do without needing our hands held or he's sending us back to the slag pile. Guess we'll have to try something else.

 

[letsnoobtehpwns]

what is fascism ? and put it in small easy to under stand words, i'm american

 

[Fronken]

Except humans are a worse species then cats. I mean you don't see cats going around raping and killing each other or just being general level fuckwits to see how much destruction they can cause. Human nature brings about the need for an Authoritarian State to keep order.

An excellent prospect.

Now all we need to do is find some non-humans to form the backbone of our Authoritians.

Aliens perhaps?

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Except humans are a worse species then cats. I mean you don't see cats going around raping and killing each other or just being general level fuckwits to see how much destruction they can cause. Human nature brings about the need for an Authoritarian State to keep order.

An excellent prospect.

Now all we need to do is find some perfect non-humans to, irrevocably and with absolute power, form the backbone of our Authoritarians.

God said he's sort of hoping we can learn to do without needing our hands held or he's sending us back to the slag pile. Guess we'll have to try something else.

Dear Lord man you are brilliant! I for one welcome our new alien overlords!

what is fascism ? and put it in small easy to under stand words, i'm american

Fascism doesn't have any real definition other then its main belief is central authority otherwise it comes down to pragmatism that is what Mussolini always toted was great about fascism if it works then who cares about theory.

 

[Benny Blanco]

Hahaha....

The inevitable problem wish threads on fascism is that people with no idea of what fascism is, or indeed how to spell it feel that they should weigh in. If you write an impassioned post on "facism" no matter how eloquent and well structured, I will laugh my arse off, because the mental image of a form of government based on faces is inherently amusing.

A couple of Fun Facts about Fascism for the uninformed (although not the uniformed- they probably know already):

1. The word comes from the fasces, a bundle of sticks wrapped around an axe. These were used in ancient Rome to clear a way through the rabble so that dignitaries could pass. The observant will see them in (neo)classical architecture in Europe (the palace at Versailles has some on the walls)

2. Despite modern asociation of the two ideas, fascism has no inherent racial or anti-semitic agenda. Mussolini made many speeches praising the role of Jewish entrepreneurs in building the Italian state. His son-in-law and sometime minister of propaganda was also Jewish, and was commissioned by Mussolini to ridicule Hitler's ideas of racial superiority. A large number of Italian Jews joined the fascist party until they were later prevented from doing so.

Not that Mussolini was a lovely guy or anything, just that he isn't necessarily guilty of everything he gets blamed for.

 

[Altorin]

This is how hitler would have got started if he had a computer.

Human beings need an authoritative state to keep order? perhaps we need leadership, but we don't need a government official who himself is only human telling us how best to live our lives, and then taking our money to ensure that we spend it properly.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Hahaha....

The inevitable problem wish threads on fascism is that people with no idea of what fascism is, or indeed how to spell it feel that they should weigh in. If you write an impassioned post on "facism" no matter how eloquent and well structured, I will laugh my arse off, because the mental image of a form of government based on faces is inherently amusing.

A couple of Fun Facts about Fascism for the uninformed (although not the uniformed- they probably know already):

1. The word comes from the fasces, a bundle of sticks wrapped around an axe. These were used in ancient Rome to clear a way through the rabble so that dignitaries could pass. The observant will see them in (neo)classical architecture in Europe (the palace at Versailles has some on the walls)

2. Despite modern asociation of the two ideas, fascism has no inherent racial or anti-semitic agenda. Mussolini made many speeches praising the role of Jewish entrepreneurs in building the Italian state. His son-in-law and sometime minister of propaganda was also Jewish, and was commissioned by Mussolini to ridicule Hitler's ideas of racial superiority. A large number of Italian Jews joined the fascist party until they were later prevented from doing so.

Not that Mussolini was a lovely guy or anything, just that he isn't necessarily guilty of everything he gets blamed for.

Brilliant and bang on this is what aggravates me the most. Fascism does not equal Racialism (The belief that a certain race is superior which is unlike racism which just hates races because they are different.) The Austrian and Italian Fascist Programs are evidence in how a proper Fascist State can work. Also the National Socialist Party of the Netherlands was actually fascist but since they had more Socialist leanings they stayed away from the term Fascist but the NSB allowed Jews into the party until the Netherlands was conquered by the Nazis and the party was made into the defacto puppet ruler so they could no longer allow Jews into the party anymore.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

This is how hitler would have got started if he had a computer.

Human beings need an authoritative state to keep order? perhaps we need leadership, but we don't need a government official who himself is only human telling us how best to live our lives, and then taking our money to ensure that we spend it properly.

Except Hitler wasn't Fascist. He was a Racialist who adhere to an ideology of National Socialism which has nothing in common with Fascism. National Socialism wishes to destroy the class system and make race the only loyalty. While Fascism wants to maintain class and make nationality the only loyalty.