Fat Shaming.

[Ihateregistering1]

That's where you're wrong. It's actually quite the oppossite. The lifetime cost of health care is higher for healthy people than for obese people/smokers for the simple reason that obese people and smokers have a shorter lifespan. Healthy people have a higher chance of reaching an age where their bodies start to break down due to old age and they can't take care of themselves any longer. Providing health care for these people over a longer period of time is much more expensive as a result...

Anyway... First off, if an obese person is less likely to be employed, that's not a problem with obesity. That's a problem with discrimination.

Do you have a link for these numbers? Because at least in the US, they've found that even with shorter lifespans, the obese have much higher lifetime medical bills than the non-obese.
http://khn.org/morning-breakout/dr00052683/
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/05/15/New-Lifetime-Estimate-Obesity-Costs-92235-person

I think it's also worth noting that attempting to justify something with "well it's ok because they'll die sooner!" is pretty macabre logic.

Also, as for your second point...kind of. Again, in the US, since employers frequently provide health plans for their employees, hiring individuals who are more likely to suffer from the many diseases and issues that come along with obesity can raise the healthcare costs for the entire company (something companies spend a ton of $$$ on).
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140513152933.htm

Further, studies have shown that, statistically, obese employees take more sick days, are injured more often, and are more likely to file disability claims than non-obese employees
http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=412250
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2008.00521.x/abstract;jsessionid=0D508F791E9553771F7B3858E36FB383.f02t01?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+unavailable+on+Saturday+5th+December+from+10%3A00-14%3A00+GMT+%2F+05%3A00-09%3A00+EST+%2F+18%3A00-22%3A00+SGT+for+essential+maintenance.+Apologies+for+the+inconvenience.

 

[Saulkar]

I wonder what these people will say to someone with polycystic ovary syndrome, many of whom (but not all) suffer obesity because their body turns sugar immediately into fat without giving them any energy lest they take pills (like metformin I think), maintain an absurdly strict diet, and use what energy they have to workout. Depending on the severity of the disease they could swing anywhere from maintaining a healthy weight to just preventing obesity.

 

[Zen Bard]

(Note: this is intended to be an encouraging compliment. But I'm sure it'll offend someone because you know...it's The Escapist)

You...uh, crisco white male bastard...

Ha! Only two out of three of those are correct! (And it's not the first one!)

Ah rakes, my old foe. We meet again...and again.

And again...

 

[chikusho]

Do you have a link for these numbers?

Link was posted earlier in the thread by someone quoting me.

Because at least in the US, they've found that even with shorter lifespans, the obese have much higher lifetime medical bills than the non-obese.
http://khn.org/morning-breakout/dr00052683/
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/05/15/New-Lifetime-Estimate-Obesity-Costs-92235-person

Four things to consider here. First, the U.S. medical system is well and truly fucked.
Secondly, since U.S. residents to a horrifying degree have to pay for their own health care, not only does it lessen the problem (since if people are mostly paying for themselves, they are not really a burden) it might also mean that a lot of people (both obese and of healthy weight) might not either seek or receive the health care that they need, which ultimately might affect the statistics.
Thirdly, two bigger causes of reduced work productivity (and cost) are insomnia and depression (see my previous post).
Finally, in the thefiscaltimes.com article they are combining several figures that don't seem to be factoring in the cause of those costs. As stated, indirect costs like work productivity could have other causes (insomnia/depression for instance). And a failure in health education can't really be blamed on the people suffering from obesity.

I think it's also worth noting that attempting to justify something with "well it's ok because they'll die sooner!" is pretty macabre logic.

I'm not saying it's good to be obese because obese people die sooner. I'm saying that the economic argument is bullshit (as well as being cold-hearted, dehumanizing, counter-productive and cruel).

Further, studies have shown that, statistically, obese employees take more sick days, are injured more often, and are more likely to file disability claims than non-obese employees
http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=412250
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2008.00521.x/abstract;jsessionid=0D508F791E9553771F7B3858E36FB383.f02t01?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+unavailable+on+Saturday+5th+December+from+10%3A00-14%3A00+GMT+%2F+05%3A00-09%3A00+EST+%2F+18%3A00-22%3A00+SGT+for+essential+maintenance.+Apologies+for+the+inconvenience.

This seems legit. No argument here at this time.

 

[maninahat]

Its rude, but is it any ruder than to expect everyone else to pay for the medical costs from her lifestyle choices through the NHS. The NHS is spending at least ?5.1 billion a year on costs associated with weight. I'm a middle aged man and I don't claim to be a muscle bound adonis but I still have the same waist size that I did 20 years ago. It just takes a little self discipline, it's not food is heroin.

Firstly, the NHS is for everyone, regardless of how they choose to live their life. No one actually wants to get sick and become hospitalized, regardless of what they do. You might as well have a go at extreme sports enthusiasts for risking breaking their limbs, or Indian people for having a statistically higher chance of gaining diabetes during their lifetime?

Secondly Food, especially fast food, has actually been compared to heroin in terms of addiction. Considering alcohol is one of the biggest contributors to weight gain too, then yes, actual addictive drugs are in part to blame for wight gain.

Thirdly, "a little discipline" is a stretch. I've ate like a pig all my life, often going for months without any kind of physical activity, and yet I have never been fat (by any real stretch of the imagination, anyway). I can't then have a go at fat people for being lazy, when I've almost certainly been far lazier and simply had the fortune to not show any outward signs of it. Now I go to the gym, I do see plenty of fat people making a serious effort to lose weight, and for a lot of them it is going to be a huge uphill battle. Firstly because of the aforementioned addictive nature of food. Second because for some people, exercise can be seemingly ineffectual even after months of effort. Thirdly because any weight lost through dieting and exercise can very easily be put back on straight away from the moment the dieting and exercise lapse. Fourthly, because your outward appearance can be influenced by a whole bevy of things beyond your diet and activity, so you could easily be wasting your time.

 

[Lightknight]

It should be mentioned that the results are based on current healthcare costs in the Netherlands and that it does not account for things like productivity differences or money paid into the system.

Not sure of the relevance. Older people seldom pay more money into the system anyways. The logic that people who die young save everyone money is fairly sound. Do you have a reason to believe that obese people work less than healthy people when the vast majority of wealth is produced by white collar labor rather than blue collar work? Sounds like you're just leaning on a stereotype that fat people are inherently lazy when most likely they just aren't as physically active or just eat more than they burn off. Not hard to do in today's caloric filled world.

By most metrics, obese people die of relatively cheap problems. Heart disease, stroke, etc. These are frequently singular events with things like diabetes being the exception. Healthy people often face a variety of long-term ailments in old age that can often require a hefty bill be paid. From mental disorders to cancers to other forms of geriatric care that can last a very long time.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

It should be mentioned that the results are based on current healthcare costs in the Netherlands and that it does not account for things like productivity differences or money paid into the system.

Not sure of the relevance. Older people seldom pay more money into the system anyways. The logic that people who die young save everyone money is fairly sound. Do you have a reason to believe that obese people work less than healthy people when the vast majority of wealth is produced by white collar labor rather than blue collar work? Sounds like you're just leaning on a stereotype that fat people are inherently lazy when most likely they just aren't as physically active or just eat more than they burn off. Not hard to do in today's caloric filled world.

By most metrics, obese people die of relatively cheap problems. Heart disease, stroke, etc. These are frequently singular events with things like diabetes being the exception. Healthy people often face a variety of long-term ailments in old age that can often require a hefty bill be paid. From mental disorders to cancers to other forms of geriatric care that can last a very long time.

I'm just quoting the study linked.

In this case, the model does not take into account varying degrees of obesity, which are likely to affect lifetime health-care costs, nor indirect costs of obesity such as reduced productivity.

 

[Lightknight]

It should be mentioned that the results are based on current healthcare costs in the Netherlands and that it does not account for things like productivity differences or money paid into the system.

Not sure of the relevance. Older people seldom pay more money into the system anyways. The logic that people who die young save everyone money is fairly sound. Do you have a reason to believe that obese people work less than healthy people when the vast majority of wealth is produced by white collar labor rather than blue collar work? Sounds like you're just leaning on a stereotype that fat people are inherently lazy when most likely they just aren't as physically active or just eat more than they burn off. Not hard to do in today's caloric filled world.

By most metrics, obese people die of relatively cheap problems. Heart disease, stroke, etc. These are frequently singular events with things like diabetes being the exception. Healthy people often face a variety of long-term ailments in old age that can often require a hefty bill be paid. From mental disorders to cancers to other forms of geriatric care that can last a very long time.

I'm just quoting the study linked.

In this case, the model does not take into account varying degrees of obesity, which are likely to affect lifetime health-care costs, nor indirect costs of obesity such as reduced productivity.

Well, what do you think? Are older people more likely to be paying more into the healthcare system considering they are frequently unemployed/retired at the time?

Likewise, do you feel like obese people are actually less productive as the authors tried to indicate? Maybe the authors also want to point out that fat Mexican statistics may not count the loss of productivity due to them taking a siesta midday while the author is going on about statistics they've apparently derived from the cusp of his/her ass?

Fat people work in all sectors. They are blue and white collar workers and clearly work hard enough to remain employed. It is a bullshit stereotype the author is introducing like it's supposed to be an assumed fact. Maybe if the author got his thumb out of his/her ass they could also wonder about the loss of productivity due to being too old to work for a couple decades in the healthy individuals that live far longer?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

It should be mentioned that the results are based on current healthcare costs in the Netherlands and that it does not account for things like productivity differences or money paid into the system.

Not sure of the relevance. Older people seldom pay more money into the system anyways. The logic that people who die young save everyone money is fairly sound. Do you have a reason to believe that obese people work less than healthy people when the vast majority of wealth is produced by white collar labor rather than blue collar work? Sounds like you're just leaning on a stereotype that fat people are inherently lazy when most likely they just aren't as physically active or just eat more than they burn off. Not hard to do in today's caloric filled world.

By most metrics, obese people die of relatively cheap problems. Heart disease, stroke, etc. These are frequently singular events with things like diabetes being the exception. Healthy people often face a variety of long-term ailments in old age that can often require a hefty bill be paid. From mental disorders to cancers to other forms of geriatric care that can last a very long time.

I'm just quoting the study linked.

In this case, the model does not take into account varying degrees of obesity, which are likely to affect lifetime health-care costs, nor indirect costs of obesity such as reduced productivity.

Well, what do you think? Are older people more likely to be paying more into the healthcare system considering they are frequently unemployed/retired at the time?

Likewise, do you feel like obese people are actually less productive as the authors tried to indicate? Maybe the authors also want to point out that fat Mexican statistics may not count the loss of productivity due to them taking a siesta midday while the author is going on about statistics from the cusp of his/her ass?

Fat people work in all sectors. They are blue and white collar works and clearly work hard enough to remain employed. It is a bullshit stereotype the author is introducing like it's supposed to be an assumed fact. Maybe if the author got his thumb out of his/her ass they could also wonder about the loss of productivity due to being too old to work for a couple decades in the healthy individuals that live far longer?

Erm, it's the study you linked through the Forbes article. It's part of a disclaimer when giving their information. I'm not all that qualified to talk on productivity since it's not something I keep track of, but it was part of the article. I can say with more conviction that the study is true specifically for the Netherlands and their healthcare costs may not translate across borders.

 

[Lightknight]

It should be mentioned that the results are based on current healthcare costs in the Netherlands and that it does not account for things like productivity differences or money paid into the system.

Not sure of the relevance. Older people seldom pay more money into the system anyways. The logic that people who die young save everyone money is fairly sound. Do you have a reason to believe that obese people work less than healthy people when the vast majority of wealth is produced by white collar labor rather than blue collar work? Sounds like you're just leaning on a stereotype that fat people are inherently lazy when most likely they just aren't as physically active or just eat more than they burn off. Not hard to do in today's caloric filled world.

By most metrics, obese people die of relatively cheap problems. Heart disease, stroke, etc. These are frequently singular events with things like diabetes being the exception. Healthy people often face a variety of long-term ailments in old age that can often require a hefty bill be paid. From mental disorders to cancers to other forms of geriatric care that can last a very long time.

I'm just quoting the study linked.

In this case, the model does not take into account varying degrees of obesity, which are likely to affect lifetime health-care costs, nor indirect costs of obesity such as reduced productivity.

Well, what do you think? Are older people more likely to be paying more into the healthcare system considering they are frequently unemployed/retired at the time?

Likewise, do you feel like obese people are actually less productive as the authors tried to indicate? Maybe the authors also want to point out that fat Mexican statistics may not count the loss of productivity due to them taking a siesta midday while the author is going on about statistics from the cusp of his/her ass?

Fat people work in all sectors. They are blue and white collar works and clearly work hard enough to remain employed. It is a bullshit stereotype the author is introducing like it's supposed to be an assumed fact. Maybe if the author got his thumb out of his/her ass they could also wonder about the loss of productivity due to being too old to work for a couple decades in the healthy individuals that live far longer?

Erm, it's the study you linked through the Forbes article. It's part of a disclaimer when giving their information. I'm not all that qualified to talk on productivity since it's not something I keep track of, but it was part of the article. I can say with more conviction that the study is true specifically for the Netherlands and their healthcare costs may not translate across borders.

Right, just because someone conducts a valid study on the numbers does not mean that their opinions or conclusions are necessarily correct. All the author did was give possible explanations for why the numbers showed healthy people costing us much more but the author was in full hypothesis mode rather than basing the hypothesis off of anything real.

By the numbers, obese people die young and die from less complicated illnesses and healthy people die old and with more costly procedures. The why of it isn't necessarily relevant.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

It should be mentioned that the results are based on current healthcare costs in the Netherlands and that it does not account for things like productivity differences or money paid into the system.

Not sure of the relevance. Older people seldom pay more money into the system anyways. The logic that people who die young save everyone money is fairly sound. Do you have a reason to believe that obese people work less than healthy people when the vast majority of wealth is produced by white collar labor rather than blue collar work? Sounds like you're just leaning on a stereotype that fat people are inherently lazy when most likely they just aren't as physically active or just eat more than they burn off. Not hard to do in today's caloric filled world.

By most metrics, obese people die of relatively cheap problems. Heart disease, stroke, etc. These are frequently singular events with things like diabetes being the exception. Healthy people often face a variety of long-term ailments in old age that can often require a hefty bill be paid. From mental disorders to cancers to other forms of geriatric care that can last a very long time.

I'm just quoting the study linked.

In this case, the model does not take into account varying degrees of obesity, which are likely to affect lifetime health-care costs, nor indirect costs of obesity such as reduced productivity.

Well, what do you think? Are older people more likely to be paying more into the healthcare system considering they are frequently unemployed/retired at the time?

Likewise, do you feel like obese people are actually less productive as the authors tried to indicate? Maybe the authors also want to point out that fat Mexican statistics may not count the loss of productivity due to them taking a siesta midday while the author is going on about statistics from the cusp of his/her ass?

Fat people work in all sectors. They are blue and white collar works and clearly work hard enough to remain employed. It is a bullshit stereotype the author is introducing like it's supposed to be an assumed fact. Maybe if the author got his thumb out of his/her ass they could also wonder about the loss of productivity due to being too old to work for a couple decades in the healthy individuals that live far longer?

Erm, it's the study you linked through the Forbes article. It's part of a disclaimer when giving their information. I'm not all that qualified to talk on productivity since it's not something I keep track of, but it was part of the article. I can say with more conviction that the study is true specifically for the Netherlands and their healthcare costs may not translate across borders.

Right, just because someone conducts a valid study on the numbers does not mean that their opinions or conclusions are necessarily correct. All the author did was give possible explanations for why the numbers showed healthy people costing us much more but the author was in full hypothesis mode rather than basing the hypothesis off of anything real.

By the numbers, obese people die young and die from less complicated illnesses and healthy people die old and with more costly procedures. The why of it isn't necessarily relevant.

Well they thought it was worth mentioning so I thought it was worth mentioning. Maybe they know numbers neither of us do?

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

I would say that instead of shaming we need education. One thing we need to do is stop telling people to exercise. Exercise doesn't make you skinny, you lose weight by not eating too much. Telling people that exercise is part of losing weight makes the problem much worse in 2 ways.

1. Overweight people dont have to come to the realization that they eat too much because they can blame it on lack of exercise.

2. It's makes people think they they can eat too much and make up for it with exercise. E.G. "I spent 20 minutes on the treadmill, so now i can have some pie."

Stop telling people "calories in, calories out". It should be "calories in, period".

 

[crimson5pheonix]

It should be mentioned that the results are based on current healthcare costs in the Netherlands and that it does not account for things like productivity differences or money paid into the system.

Not sure of the relevance. Older people seldom pay more money into the system anyways. The logic that people who die young save everyone money is fairly sound. Do you have a reason to believe that obese people work less than healthy people when the vast majority of wealth is produced by white collar labor rather than blue collar work? Sounds like you're just leaning on a stereotype that fat people are inherently lazy when most likely they just aren't as physically active or just eat more than they burn off. Not hard to do in today's caloric filled world.

By most metrics, obese people die of relatively cheap problems. Heart disease, stroke, etc. These are frequently singular events with things like diabetes being the exception. Healthy people often face a variety of long-term ailments in old age that can often require a hefty bill be paid. From mental disorders to cancers to other forms of geriatric care that can last a very long time.

I'm just quoting the study linked.

In this case, the model does not take into account varying degrees of obesity, which are likely to affect lifetime health-care costs, nor indirect costs of obesity such as reduced productivity.

Well, what do you think? Are older people more likely to be paying more into the healthcare system considering they are frequently unemployed/retired at the time?

Likewise, do you feel like obese people are actually less productive as the authors tried to indicate? Maybe the authors also want to point out that fat Mexican statistics may not count the loss of productivity due to them taking a siesta midday while the author is going on about statistics from the cusp of his/her ass?

Fat people work in all sectors. They are blue and white collar works and clearly work hard enough to remain employed. It is a bullshit stereotype the author is introducing like it's supposed to be an assumed fact. Maybe if the author got his thumb out of his/her ass they could also wonder about the loss of productivity due to being too old to work for a couple decades in the healthy individuals that live far longer?

Erm, it's the study you linked through the Forbes article. It's part of a disclaimer when giving their information. I'm not all that qualified to talk on productivity since it's not something I keep track of, but it was part of the article. I can say with more conviction that the study is true specifically for the Netherlands and their healthcare costs may not translate across borders.

Right, just because someone conducts a valid study on the numbers does not mean that their opinions or conclusions are necessarily correct. All the author did was give possible explanations for why the numbers showed healthy people costing us much more but the author was in full hypothesis mode rather than basing the hypothesis off of anything real.

By the numbers, obese people die young and die from less complicated illnesses and healthy people die old and with more costly procedures. The why of it isn't necessarily relevant.

Well they thought it was worth mentioning so I thought it was worth mentioning. Maybe they know numbers neither of us do?

Why would you think that?

They appear to be the experts on the subject (having authored this study in the first place) and wrote that as part of their study.

 

[viscomica]

It's pretty horrible but it does make me wonder why these people got together and decided it was a good idea and just how much free time they must have to waste on such a stupid move.
(Edit: I quoted someone by mistake so I've edited this post. Sorry!)

 

[sniddy_v1legacy]

Honestly - partially as it's still slightly 'allowable' and socially acceptable...

Hear me out, used to be we'd wail on race or religion but society no longer allows this

Trolls will be trolls but this isn't....well it won't get them the attention of the police

 

[Proto Taco]

To me, this isn't a fat shaming issue. This is just people being rude, obnoxious trolls. The fact being fat is being mentioned is secondary to that.

I chuckled a little when I read that card, I'm not gonna lie. The cynicism is strong with me.

This all reminds me of when I was in high school; There was this one kid, in one class, and he himself was no looker, but he'd call me 'fat', 'fatso', 'tubby', every day, every chance he got. It made me feel like crap, sure, and I did think about rebutting that he was even fatter than I was, but I knew that he was ultimately right. So I cut the crap from my diet, exercised religiously and within less than a year he was picking on someone else and even the school athletes started to take to me.

Now that situation won't play out the same for everyone, but having had that experience it's hard for me to relate to people who complain about fat shaming. Is it morally right? No. But should we be telling fat people they're fine just the way they are? Of course not. Their life will be miserable with all that extra fat and telling them they're fine however much they weigh won't change that.

Victims will only stop being victimized when they start taking agency over their life back. If you keep expecting everyone else to be nice to you all the time then you'll never learn how to play the game, and playing the game is how you improve your life.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I eagerly await the news of someone getting caught handing out one of these and having the merry bejeezus beaten out of them by a "fatty".

 

[sumanoskae]

Yes, it does. it is literally impossible to be fat without eating. the body would simply have no way of creating fat without the food being introduced. Obesity is NOT a made up problem it in fact is one of the largest drains of healthcare budgets and in some countries like US there is a significant percentage of population that are obese.

You might want to reread my comment, because you missed my point entirely. I obviously have an understanding of basic human biology; what I said was that the same amount of food does not equal the same percentage of a healthy calorie intake for two people with radically different body types.

Being overweight doesn't just happen when anybody with any lifestyle or genetic background eats X amount of food. What constitutes a healthy weight is a relative term, based on factors such as your height and girth.

This is a problem, but it is not related to obesity. especially since majority of this thrown out food is actually vegetables and fruits. Also do come to Europe, adopt our policy, we donate that food to places like homeless shelters instead.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of criticizing fat people for wasting food when thin people evidently waste just as much.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

More than anything, this just strikes me as being a stupendous waste of good card stock. Each of these thingies could've been someone's business card or a component for some new homebrew tabletop game, or a kid's Arts and Crafts project.

But nope, hateful idiots went and bought all that card stock to sate their irrational hatred of something that's better addressed with support and understanding than with outright malice.

Say you're trying to get me to stop vaping. Punching me in the face and saying "That's because you vape, you disgusting freak!" wouldn't necessarily make me want me to stop. If anything, it would make me want to file a harassment case.

I'm sure the cops are going to nab one of the individuals responsible for this and dismantle the network pretty quickly.

 

[Zacharious-khan]

You know the nice thing about being obese, it's objectively negative and entirely your fault. I hope one of these cards turns someone's life around, They'll thank themselves for it one day.