Fat Shaming.

[sumanoskae]

The number of people for whom their bodies do this at the level significant enough are already classified as diseased from the things that causes this. and yes, some bodies burn calories faster than others but the difference is not big enough to cause obesity with same diets. and if that miniscule amount of people that actually have these disorders do nothing about it, it still is their fault for not getting one of the available treatments for the disorder.

Well i never told anyone to use a BMI to measure obesity, so not sure why you are even bringing that up to begin with. yes, thats correct, but irrelevant to the conversation.

It's big enough to do the opposite; some people find it much harder to put weight on than others. I have friends who eat like pigs but remain thin. Granted, they don't have awful diets and they do get some exorcise, but that's exactly the point.

Being fat does not automatically mean that you waste food. There are plenty of other factors about a person's life that can determine their weight besides the raw quantity of food they consume. One does not equal the other.

And before you say anything, I'm not arguing that lots of people are just fat by nature; I'm arguing that a multitude of factors work together to determine your weight, so blaming fat people for wasting food makes no sense.

So will quickly go over all the points I already outlined in my original post AGAIN.
If you don't exorcise at all, you will gain weight easier and quicker.
If the food you eat is unnaturally fattening, you will gain weight easier and quicker.
If your lifestyle is physically exhausting, you will need more calories to stay healthy.

Core point: A does not equal B.

not sure where anyone mentioned wasting food to being with. I know i dont waste food, i cannot control others yet, need more radioactive spiders for that ability im afraid.

Read the pamphlet.

As for controlling the minds of others, it's very simple. First you need to spec into the Sith Lord prestige class, and then- *Silenced by Illuminati*

 

[Strazdas]

The number of people for whom their bodies do this at the level significant enough are already classified as diseased from the things that causes this. and yes, some bodies burn calories faster than others but the difference is not big enough to cause obesity with same diets. and if that miniscule amount of people that actually have these disorders do nothing about it, it still is their fault for not getting one of the available treatments for the disorder.

Well i never told anyone to use a BMI to measure obesity, so not sure why you are even bringing that up to begin with. yes, thats correct, but irrelevant to the conversation.

It's big enough to do the opposite; some people find it much harder to put weight on than others. I have friends who eat like pigs but remain thin. Granted, they don't have awful diets and they do get some exorcise, but that's exactly the point.

Being fat does not automatically mean that you waste food. There are plenty of other factors about a person's life that can determine their weight besides the raw quantity of food they consume. One does not equal the other.

And before you say anything, I'm not arguing that lots of people are just fat by nature; I'm arguing that a multitude of factors work together to determine your weight, so blaming fat people for wasting food makes no sense.

So will quickly go over all the points I already outlined in my original post AGAIN.
If you don't exorcise at all, you will gain weight easier and quicker.
If the food you eat is unnaturally fattening, you will gain weight easier and quicker.
If your lifestyle is physically exhausting, you will need more calories to stay healthy.

Core point: A does not equal B.

not sure where anyone mentioned wasting food to being with. I know i dont waste food, i cannot control others yet, need more radioactive spiders for that ability im afraid.

Read the pamphlet.

As for controlling the minds of others, it's very simple. First you need to spec into the Sith Lord prestige class, and then- *Silenced by Illuminati*

people who do not eat a lot of calories and exercise remain thin? stop the presses! No, people who stay fat or thin because of medical factors are an extremely tiny minority and are in no way representative of general population weight problem.

so yes, being fat is directly a result to how much food you consume. exercise only burns so much btw. most people do not exercise nearly enough to have any significant impact on their fat levels. there is a reason any good dietologist will tell you eating right is 90% of the job to loose weight.

I do see the food waste in the pamphlet now, must have fogotten about that part. yeah, people elsewhere are starving for reasons other than people eating too much, that part is BS.

P.S. Ill get working on my Sith Lord skills then!

 

[Nickolai77]

I would argue that 'socialized medicine' would actually encourage less healthy behavior. If you're the one footing the bill for a health issue, there's a deincentive (is that what you call it?) to have that health issue. If it's coming out of taxpayer money, people will essentially treat it as free, since the direct consequence on them is ultimately minimal. In other words, people are less likely to be healthy if they know someone else is going to pay to fix it.

That seems like an odd claim considering that the US is notorious for having the most obese people on the planet. By your reasoning, Americans should be eating more healthily because paying for your own healthcare insurance would be an insensitive to eat healthier. In other measures, we in the UK drink more alcohol (per capita) than the US, but the Americans smoke more cigarettes per person. I think it's probably more nebulous factors like "culture" that have a far greater influence on national health than how health services are paid for.

 

[sumanoskae]

people who do not eat a lot of calories and exercise remain thin? stop the presses! No, people who stay fat or thin because of medical factors are an extremely tiny minority and are in no way representative of general population weight problem.

so yes, being fat is directly a result to how much food you consume. exercise only burns so much btw. most people do not exercise nearly enough to have any significant impact on their fat levels. there is a reason any good dietologist will tell you eating right is 90% of the job to loose weight.

I do see the food waste in the pamphlet now, must have fogotten about that part. yeah, people elsewhere are starving for reasons other than people eating too much, that part is BS.

P.S. Ill get working on my Sith Lord skills then!

Stop bringing up the medical aspect, in no way did I emphasized it's importance! I never said or implied that being fat or thin is out of your control, I said that the sheer quantity of food you eat is not the sole determining factor or even the most important one.

When dietitians and nutritionists talk about how important diet is, they don't tell you to just eat smaller portions of baked goods and junk food, they tell you to cut them from your diet and eat different, healthier food. It's about quality, not quantity.

 

[Strazdas]

people who do not eat a lot of calories and exercise remain thin? stop the presses! No, people who stay fat or thin because of medical factors are an extremely tiny minority and are in no way representative of general population weight problem.

so yes, being fat is directly a result to how much food you consume. exercise only burns so much btw. most people do not exercise nearly enough to have any significant impact on their fat levels. there is a reason any good dietologist will tell you eating right is 90% of the job to loose weight.

I do see the food waste in the pamphlet now, must have fogotten about that part. yeah, people elsewhere are starving for reasons other than people eating too much, that part is BS.

P.S. Ill get working on my Sith Lord skills then!

Stop bringing up the medical aspect, in no way did I emphasized it's importance! I never said or implied that being fat or thin is out of your control, I said that the sheer quantity of food you eat is not the sole determining factor or even the most important one.

When dietitians and nutritionists talk about how important diet is, they don't tell you to just eat smaller portions of baked goods and junk food, they tell you to cut them from your diet and eat different, healthier food. It's about quality, not quantity.

Then stop making statements that apply only to those people.

Yes, sheer quantity of calories you take in is the sole determinant on how fat you will become. Note that fat/thin does not equal healthy/unhealthy. dietitians operate regarding healthy/unhealthy. however you can loose weight eating unhealthy (its just harder because its harder to eat less than to change the products). for example This diet professor lost weight eating ONLY twinkies [http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/]. How much weight you gain is solely determined by how much calories you consume and how much calories you burn. your health is determined by what and how much you eat.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

Yes, we need to shame saturated fats, there is way too much of them in our food, clogging up the system

Artificial fats though, they are KOS

 

[Korolev]

No one should be ashamed of their weight. No one should shame anyone for their weight.

Being overweight is unhealthy (although how unhealthy it is depends on how overweight the individual in question is). But so is tanning, so is the over-use of joints, so is not eating enough vegetables and getting less than the required amount of sleep. Almost all of us do unhealthy things from time to time. I am not overweight, but I do not eat a balanced diet and I do not perform the minimum amount of exercise. Should I be shamed for under-execising, or subsisting on a diet that consists mostly of white-bread and diet-pepsi? (and believe me, I know how terrible that sounds).

It is true that a person's diet dictates their weight. Fat cannot be spontaneously generated. That would violate the laws of physics, chemistry and biology. Fat cannot just "appear" out of nowhere. Having said that, a person's diet is not always in their control. For many people who are overweight, their diet was set during childhood. Diet is also set by price, advertisements and culture. There are societal and parental influences on a person's diet. We need to acknowledge that. We also need to acknowledge that achieving long-lasting dietary change is incredibly difficult.

Also, being overweight is an issue for that person. It is not your issue. Yes, you could claim that overweight people make the country unhealthy and cause your insurance premiums to increase. But you know what? Eating a lot of red meat contributes to colon cancer. Should we shame people for eating hot-dogs or having a BBQ? Alcohol-related accidents drive insurance premiums up as well - should we hate on all those who have a drink after work? If let your insurance premiums dictate what you hate or tolerate, you need to reconsider your priorities in life.

For the most part, being overweight is an issue for that patient and that patient alone. It is their body, not yours. Medically, yes, being overweight is not ideal, but not even the doctors lead medically ideal lives. I would know. I am one.

Shaming people for being overweight is both unlikely to cause them to lose weight, and cruel. The primary method goal of shaming is not to make the overweight person lose weight, it is to make the shame-er feel good about themselves. Those who engage in this sort of activity need to think about that: "What kind of person uses the anguish of others to feel good about themselves? What person derives personal pride by putting down others?".

 

[sumanoskae]

Then stop making statements that apply only to those people.

Yes, sheer quantity of calories you take in is the sole determinant on how fat you will become. Note that fat/thin does not equal healthy/unhealthy. dietitians operate regarding healthy/unhealthy. however you can loose weight eating unhealthy (its just harder because its harder to eat less than to change the products). for example This diet professor lost weight eating ONLY twinkies [http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/]. How much weight you gain is solely determined by how much calories you consume and how much calories you burn. your health is determined by what and how much you eat.

Amount of calories food contains =/= Actual portion size of food
Amount of fat you consume =/= Amount of fat you retain factoring in metabolism and lifestyle

By your logic, if you're a professional athlete who burns an immense amount of fat in your daily training routine, but you also eat too much cake, you will be just as fat as an office worker who also eats cake, but goes through absolutely 0 physical strain on a daily basis.

The grievance these people took with fat people was that they waste food. Being fat does not automatically mean you waste food, therefore they are stupid elitist jackasses as opposed to just plain elitist jackasses. That was the sole message of my comment.

 

[Strazdas]

Then stop making statements that apply only to those people.

Yes, sheer quantity of calories you take in is the sole determinant on how fat you will become. Note that fat/thin does not equal healthy/unhealthy. dietitians operate regarding healthy/unhealthy. however you can loose weight eating unhealthy (its just harder because its harder to eat less than to change the products). for example This diet professor lost weight eating ONLY twinkies [http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/]. How much weight you gain is solely determined by how much calories you consume and how much calories you burn. your health is determined by what and how much you eat.

Amount of calories food contains =/= Actual portion size of food
Amount of fat you consume =/= Amount of fat you retain factoring in metabolism and lifestyle

By your logic, if you're a professional athlete who burns an immense amount of fat in your daily training routine, but you also eat too much cake, you will be just as fat as an office worker who also eats cake, but goes through absolutely 0 physical strain on a daily basis.

The grievance these people took with fat people was that they waste food. Being fat does not automatically mean you waste food, therefore they are stupid elitist jackasses as opposed to just plain elitist jackasses. That was the sole message of my comment.

and i never claimed these two equalities, so not sure why you are pointing it out. No, by my logic you will be fat if your calory intake is higher than the amount of calories you burn. obviously, the athlete burns more calories so they will be less fat.

Like i said in a previuos reply, i do not agree with their food waste arguments.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

snip

If weight gain/loss is down to genetics how do you explain that obesity is such a recent epidemic?

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

snip

If weight gain/loss is down to genetics how do you explain that obesity is such a recent epidemic?

Never before has food been available in such quantities at such low cost to so many who live life styles where obesity isn't instantly crippling. Never before have the circumstances been correct for the trait to express in large portions of the population.

Often hereditary traits require the right environment to express. For example, lactose intolerance only expresses in the presence of lactose. You would never know the difference otherwise. This is one of the most basic principles of genetics.

And it isn't all genetics or whatever, but that does have a far more significant role to play than people tend to think. In most cases the disadvantage can be overcome, but pretending the disadvantage does not exist or that it is minor for most people who struggle to maintain a healthy weight is ignorant.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

snip

If weight gain/loss is down to genetics how do you explain that obesity is such a recent epidemic?

Never before has food been available in such quantities at such low cost to so many who live life styles where obesity isn't instantly crippling. Never before have the circumstances been correct for the trait to express in large portions of the population.

Often hereditary traits require the right environment to express. For example, lactose intolerance only expresses in the presence of lactose. You would never know the difference otherwise. This is one of the most basic principles of genetics.

And it isn't all genetics or whatever, but that does have a far more significant role to play than people tend to think. In most cases the disadvantage can be overcome, but pretending the disadvantage does not exist or that it is minor for most people who struggle to maintain a healthy weight is ignorant.

and acting like it's the difference between healthy weight and an extra 20 kilos of fat is insulting. Time and again people who claim it's just their genetics are shown to just not understand how much they are eating/drinking. And the argument put forth by a lot of these people isn't "My genetics are bad so I gain weight more easily" it's "My genetics are bad so I weigh the same as a baby elephant.

 

[sumanoskae]

and i never claimed these two equalities, so not sure why you are pointing it out. No, by my logic you will be fat if your calory intake is higher than the amount of calories you burn. obviously, the athlete burns more calories so they will be less fat.

Like i said in a previuos reply, i do not agree with their food waste arguments.

So then what point of mine are you arguing against? That was the sole point of my comment. I don't recall making any other point besides the fact that fat people are not necessarily wasteful.

 

[WolfThomas]

I would argue that 'socialized medicine' would actually encourage less healthy behavior. If you're the one footing the bill for a health issue, there's a deincentive (is that what you call it?) to have that health issue. If it's coming out of taxpayer money, people will essentially treat it as free, since the direct consequence on them is ultimately minimal. In other words, people are less likely to be healthy if they know someone else is going to pay to fix it.

I disagree completely. "Socialized medicine" allows a person to visit a doctor cheaply or freely for preventive medicine. Things like getting their blood pressure checked, their cholesterol and blood sugar. Visits to Dietitians, Exercise Physiologists and other Allied health can be organised with partial or full subsidization of costs. Metabolic or endocrine causes of obesity can be excluded. Medications for assistance to quit smoking can be subsidized. If all else fails they an get onto a wait list for bariatric surgery they may never have been able to afford otherwise.

If you're paying out of pocket, things that don't actively make you feel sick or aren't going to immediately kill you aren't going to seem important. Blood pressure, cholesterol and impaired glucose tolerance are all mostly invisible until you have a stroke, heart attach or develop complications of diabetes.

Edit:

Also in socialized countries most people still don't want to be sick. They may be supported better financially, but it still impairs their ability to work (and earn money) and the overall quality of their life.

 

[Gengisgame]

TC is people shaming, calling people shitty like that, most people are decent, the crap they do or the crap people in general just seem to stand out.