It's a hypothetical situation. It's that way because I said it was, I created it. It doesn't have to conform to anything you accept or even hold up to iron clad logic. A dissection of the question is not the purpose of most hypothetical situations and serves no purpose here.Deathfish15 said:"what if" situations are the cause to blame for a lot of wars and very stupid decisions throughout humanity. How about we focus on the here-and-now within reality's setting, m'kay? Besides, I highly doubt that the phone would be the only possible way to finding the kids. First off a thorough investigation would track last locations of the bus sighted, and manhunts would ensue within that region. Now without unlocking the phone, they can also pinpoint the closest towers it connected to during such and such time to further help locate the missing kids. Then, good old fashioned police work. There is NO miracle hiding behind technology; especially a measly cell phone.BoogieManFL said:What if they had the cell phone of some crazy sick bastard who kidnapped a bus full of children and hid them somewhere only to get himself killed by authorities, and the only possible way to find them would be hacking his phone. Would they still say tough luck - our principals are worth more than lives?
This case is about the FBI wanting to hack the cell phone to try to further investigate OTHER people this already established terrorist was talking to and to find out if they're part of a terrorist cell. This isn't a bomb on a trigger. This is basically them wanting to circumvent system to try to track other people through this person's phone.
The worst part of this that is being downplayed is that the FBI gave advice to the supervisor of the owner of the phone to lock the dang thing in the first place. It is their own fault that they cannot get into it. That is the rub that is killing this case.
Except it isn't that simple. Encryption services, such as telegram or WhatsApp, are readily and freely available, with new ones popping up every day. There was one a while ago that was essentially a heavily encrypted version of snap chat, wherein the message would be deleted after an amount of time determined by the sender. So even if Apple were to lose this court case, it still would NOT ultimately help the issue you so sarcastically brought up. The issue here is regarding the legal precedent the case will set.Rastrelly said:Go team freedom! Fuck those potential terrorist victims who could be saved if contents of that phone would lead to other terrorists!
That's the thing. There's no evidence that these people are a part of an organized terrorist cell. Claiming that the evidence might be inside the phone is a bad argument. You can say that about anyone who committed any act of violence or civil disobedience. And we've already seen how the government labels people terrorist with ease. Who the fuck would in their right mind give the authorities such a power? It's insane. Setting such a strong precedent that gives the government overwhelming power based on an assumption that it might kind of sort of maybe be useful is a TERRIBLE idea.Rastrelly said:Go team freedom! Fuck those potential terrorist victims who could be saved if contents of that phone would lead to other terrorists!
It's not just about Apple. This would affect every other tech giant and not just in the US. And it wouldn't be a very good publicity stunt. Imagine all the people who could be buying an iPhone right now but they might be waiting to see what becomes of this. Apple is right to raise such a ruckus over this. A part of their defense is educating people on the importance of strong encryption.Arnoxthe1 said:...
I know Apple though. This feels like a massive publicity stunt. How do we know that Apple's no just putting on a show while secretly helping them with the backdoor in secret? I really wouldn't put it past them.
You're somewhat right. 2048 bit encryption only refers to asymmetric key cryptography, which is not what's being used here. I haven't had a chance to work with iPhone Decryption, but based on literature in the field it basically works as follows:iseko said:question: Im not entirely sure about this but... A password encryption is basically just a pasword being jumbled around by your key. You select a password (for example: puppy). The key encrypts it into: "w751|''dwER4$%". Someone explained it to me once that you can only run it through from front to back (puppy into w751|''dwER4$% and not w751|''dwER4$% into puppy).
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Problem is that with 2048 bit encryptions or higher the combinations become too much for any supercomputer to try and break in this life time
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My experience with IT and encryption in general is very limited so... correct, half wrong, totally wrong, shut up?
Yeah... a company like... pApple.Gorrath said:That is some great resolve by those engineers. I applaud them. "From our cold, dead hands," appears to be the motto. Luckily, I'm sure all of them can easily land a new position with another company should push come to "fuck you".
It erases the decryption key for your phone, which effectively erases everything. The difference is that it takes far less time.LetalisK said:I'm so confused about this subject. So if I get hammered because my wife left me and fat finger my passcode too many times in an attempt to drunk dial her, does my iPhone just lock me out permanently? Erase everything? If I take it to a Genius bar will they just tell me to eat shit and buy a new one?
Only if you have that turned on. It's under Settings>Touch ID & Passcode> Erase Data.LetalisK said:I'm so confused about this subject. So if I get hammered because my wife left me and fat finger my passcode too many times in an attempt to drunk dial her, does my iPhone just lock me out permanently? Erase everything? If I take it to a Genius bar will they just tell me to eat shit and buy a new one?
It's about setting a precedent. As soon as the courts say the F.B.I. is in the right, they'll use that example for all other cases (think they have 12 right now) to force compliance down the road. They're not trying to win this one fight, but all the others down the road. The F.B.I. is using this case in particular to argue because it sounds so good in the media. (Apple wont help us fight terrorists!!)BoogieManFL said:Someone help me understand something.. I get both sides. But..
If these people were terrorists can't they just unlock those phones and provide the data, then destroy the methods they used to unlock them assuming they don't already possess the ability to circumvent their own designs? Or do they want the ability to do so given to them on whoever they want? Is it specifically known? I assume they want a tool made for their personal use.. In which case I can see Apple's resistance. Maybe they should compromise and do it just for this one phone or incident..
What if they had the cell phone of some crazy sick bastard who kidnapped a bus full of children and hid them somewhere only to get himself killed by authorities, and the only possible way to find them would be hacking his phone. Would they still say tough luck - our principals are worth more than lives?
The argument I've heard is that they ARE able to work together to hack a cell phone but the technology they would have to use to do it would be in the hands of the CIA if it does exist, if it does exist it would be very much in the interests of the CIA to keep it secret. If they do in fact find the threads of another terrorist plot the FBI would have to reveal how it is they know what they know to a court in order to get warrants and such things and then the technology and the way it works would no longer be secret.Deathfish15 said:Federal Bureau of Investigation.
F.B.I.
Central Intelligence Agency.
C.I.A.
Are you seriously telling me that these two GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, who have the same objectives in this terrorist investigation, aren't able to work together to hack a cell phone? Really?!
Is our government that inept that all we have now working for us is bureaucratic windbags (or douchebags?) that serve no purpose other than to argue in hearings and courtrooms? I'm more than certain that not only are there some highly trained programmers within the Air Force (the test alone to get into the program is insane). There is also the option of contracting out private contractors to do the hack as well.
This is just pure political poppycock in order to try to make precedence in order to make new laws. It is ridiculous!
That blows my mind that it's even an option, but I'm also someone who liberally uses the "Forgot password?" on websites. It's clearly not meant for me.chimeracreator said:It erases the decryption key for your phone, which effectively erases everything. The difference is that it takes far less time.LetalisK said:I'm so confused about this subject. So if I get hammered because my wife left me and fat finger my passcode too many times in an attempt to drunk dial her, does my iPhone just lock me out permanently? Erase everything? If I take it to a Genius bar will they just tell me to eat shit and buy a new one?