Am I the only one who thinks those alter images are actually alright?
Granted I still kinda disagree with them. They're going about it the wrong way. I mean sure it doesn't take a supermodel body to be an archaeologist like Lara but it still require a healthy body to become one (I assuming they do travel alot on foot). I mean when have you seen a over weight archaeologist on tv?
I get what they were going for, but conforming everyone to average proportions doesn't really account for the extreme athleticism of these characters, who should just by their lifestyles and regular activities show signs of fitness, particularly in regards to arm and leg muscles. This also fails to take into consideration that women come in all sorts of different heights, and with different metabolisms. This one-size-fits-all thing is just as bad as the current standard in regards to assuming there's "one perfect figure". That the perfect figure is heavier isn't really an improvement.
All that being said, we should be sending messages about fitness and activity and healthy living and healthy eating, not appearance and figure. To tell people they look perfect just as they are is to miss the point every bit as much as to tell them they don't look good enough; beauty shouldn't be the goal at all, regardless of how you define it. But even if it were, basing an ideal on the average woman in a country with an obesity problem and a significantly-above-average rate of obesity-related health issues is stupid.
Well, TV doesn't particularly like putting overweight people on the air either (unless it's some kind of weight loss competition, which they LOVE). Archaeology isn't anything like what Indiana Jones or Tomb Raider would lead one to believe, though. It's much more sitting around, dusting things off slowly.
Well, that's kind of related to the concern that the group has, that the ever presence of this kind of body image represents an unattainable ideal for the average person, the pursuit of which could result in the development of the eating disorders they provide information about.
Good. Let dumb weak-willed people die from self-forced hunger. It will make humanity stronger.
OT: Maybe, just MAYBE you should start running your fat ass off instead of whining about how world is calling your fat ass fat (if YOU don't like your fat ass, that is)? Or maybe, just MAYBE you should finally understand with your little dumb head that it is a FICTIONAL character and no person EVER will achieve this level of artificial "perfection"?
You don't see my fat ass jigling in fear, hatred and sadness because I will never be as buff as Barret or as bish as Sephiroth.
Ok first of all, that's not how natural selection works. Second of all, what point are you trying to make by being insultingly dismissive of those with mental disorders?
Third, I'm not fat and I'm still disgusted by this because not only fat women are noticing a complete and utter lack of creativity when it comes to character design.
Fourth. CHILL! Jesus Christ, it's people criticizing a lack of creativity in video games.
But they aren't real people. They are fantasy depictions. And if someone is going to be affected by fantasy depictions of what someone looks like then they might just have more serious issues than eating disorders.
Fair enough I do somewhat see your point here. But those characters themselves are in careers or lifestyles that either encourage or necessitate the level of athletics their physique shows. Lara Croft was mentioned above but in just the ones they changes we have fighters, dancers and more in there, all very high exertion fields which would lead someone to being thinner than average. This means that if we are going to see more non-thin people in this kind of market then there have to be games that show them in suitable careers.
However, these are American average body types in real-life. Things like The Legend of Zelda, Halo and Final Fantasy don't have to have woman who look like this. Not to mention Lara Croft and fighting game characters, in which you have to be physically fit to do what they do. They gave bad examples to be honest.
And the key word there is average too. I kind of get what they're doing, but 'average' only really works in terms of broad statistical observations. Especially with human bodies, which are all so different from each other anyway. Height and general proportions are just as important to the overall physical build as the weight.
If they wanted to redesign each of these characters in a way that is more realistic for what they do in-game, that's one thing and that would be pretty cool. But, this just seems like a bit of a lazy way to go about making this particular point. I think it's a valid point, and that there *should* be more diverse body types for both male and female characters (although the female ones do tend to suffer the worst from it), but this just seems... silly. It's hard to take your point seriously when you've obviously put all of 5 minutes of effort into it.
On the topic of redesigning characters in a more realistic way, I'm actually quite fond of nebezial's depictions of Wonder Woman over on deviantart. She's still definitely feminine, but she also definitely *looks* like someone who punches people and throws cars for a living, and who likely spends hours, upon hours, training to do so. You can look at her physical design and glean things about who she is as a character, and I think that's something a lot of character designers forget. It isn't just about the clothes, or the gear, the base, physical build of your character is a vital part of the design. On a well-designed character, you should be able to remove all clothing, all their gadgets, gear and external trappings, and *still* be able to convey something about who they are purely by how they are physically built and how they carry themselves.
I like how he depicts Supergirl too (generally a tiny, petite little thing), which really does juxtapose her physical appearance with her superhuman abilities in an amusing way.
It's a diagnosed thing. Just because you think it's poppycock doesn't make it so. A surprisingly similar attitude to how some people are dismissive towards depression I might add.
I'm gonna take a wild stab and guess that you never even knew that it was widespread around horse jockeys.
*Points at Christie from Teken 5* That woman? She isn't healthy. She is dangerously underweight. In fact, a lot of these women look dangerously underweight. Some people say that that they look that way because they leave healthy lifestyles. If that were the case, they would have muscles instead of being built like toothpicks with a pair of grapes.
Am I the only one who thinks those alter images are actually alright?
Granted I still kinda disagree with them. They're going about it the wrong way. I mean sure it doesn't take a supermodel body to be an archaeologist like Lara but it still require a healthy body to become one (I assuming they do travel alot on foot). I mean when have you seen a over weight archaeologist on tv?
Alot of times honestly, but that's more because they're old(er) and are more like just being the on-site historian and "is this valuable or is this a coke cap?" guy.
Lara's just Indiana Jones, and to be fair, he wasn't in the best shape either, but he also was a teacher the majority of his life and his problems were more mental than physical most of the time. I mean, he punched the Germans a couple times, ran around, had a few gun tricks, bit of climbing in ToD, and some jumping around in TLC. That's about it. Which is basically just Lara's tutorial in most of her games. Heck, she regularly makes impossible jumps if we used the real world's physics systems.
I can agree that she needs more muscle, especially in her arms considering how much you climb in the new one, but that shop just gives her fat...and that doesn't make her look "more realistic", it makes her look heavy-set, and not in the good way.
And doesn't Cortana choose to present herself the way she is like most AI in the Halo universe?
And then there's the rest of the characters, which are pretty much, like, all stylized anime-lite in their games, anyone that thinks they're being presented as anything but a fantasy-type thing is delusional in the very least. They really could've gotten some better examples, don'cha think?
rcs619 said:
Aerosteam said:
I like how he depicts Supergirl too (generally a tiny, petite little thing), which really does juxtapose her physical appearance with her superhuman abilities in an amusing way.
God I still love that design of her, even if I'd prefer more definition in her arms. But it is just a sketch. Been hoping for that to translate to the real world for years.
This is why I loathe the "Fat Acceptance Movement" so much. The only reason those updated models are more "realistic" is because America is getting so damn fat. Instead of admitting to their problems and trying to lose weight, they're trying to redefine health and beauty so that obesity is no longer unhealthy or unattractive.
You most certainly didn't mean it, but you kinda pointed out the problem when you refereed to a character getting realistic proportions as "getting fatter". One of the stars of the Sopranos suffered from anorexia, and while the show was still running, she beat the problem and started eating properly and gained weight to the point where she was average for her size. People called her fat.
American views of the female body are kinda messed up right now. People think super unhealthy thin is the default for women and there's a lot of pressure to meet that unreasonable standard, the media playing a big hand in pushing it, and me and quite a few other people are starting to notice it and are being really creeped by it. I saw a mannequin in a store 6-12 months ago, then looked at my average height Mom who has been on a major exercise and healthy eating trip for awhile now. It was disturbing how much smaller it was. Reminds me of this.
Add to it, that Christie character from Teken 5 actually looks like she's anorexic, I can see her freaking rib cage!
Chaosian said:
In my mind, this more of a testament to how absolutely morbidly obese the average American is, more than anything.
If it's a statement about how women are portrayed in video games, that's fair enough, but I'd rather not everyone be Bob from Tekken in my fiction, thanks.
Dude, really? From what I see they are all very normal to begin with, while the edit doesnt make them obese it does make them chubby and even fat for some. Rikku and the GTA 5 girl look fat, and from all of those only Cortana looks average (in a motherly sort of way).
I dont understand how doing exercise and being fit means being unhealthy. You dont have to starve to have a thin body, I dont starve, and in fact I should even eat more and work out to gain some muscle mass (something that is very different then fat).
Also, the girl on your image isnt even as fat as the ones demonstrated, you can see that she has a very strong hourglass figure while the edits are basicly fridges.
Idealized forms are the stock and trade of all media.
Basically, request all you want, it's not going to happen because pretty people sell better than realistic people.
Some of these are sensible, but some are kind of stupid. Rikku is basically a mechanic/deep sea diver. She should be more muscular rather than softer and doughier, if you're thinking about this logically.
First, I live in the USA and many of those images are simply not representative of what you see. At least not in the rough age range of the women depicted here. This is not at all representative of the body shape and weight of women you would find on, say, the average university campus or at a bar for upper 20's\low 30's. I would like to know how they came to their average female body. I get the feeling that they used the mean where they should be using the median.
Well, that's kind of related to the concern that the group has, that the ever presence of this kind of body image represents an unattainable ideal for the average person, the pursuit of which could result in the development of the eating disorders they provide information about.
Good. Let dumb weak-willed people die from self-forced hunger. It will make humanity stronger.
OT: Maybe, just MAYBE you should start running your fat ass off instead of whining about how world is calling your fat ass fat (if YOU don't like your fat ass, that is)? Or maybe, just MAYBE you should finally understand with your little dumb head that it is a FICTIONAL character and no person EVER will achieve this level of artificial "perfection"?
You don't see my fat ass jigling in fear, hatred and sadness because I will never be as buff as Barret or as bish as Sephiroth.
Ok first of all, that's not how natural selection works. Second of all, what point are you trying to make by being insultingly dismissive of those with mental disorders?
Third, I'm not fat and I'm still disgusted by this because not only fat women are noticing a complete and utter lack of creativity when it comes to character design.
Fourth. CHILL! Jesus Christ, it's people criticizing a lack of creativity in video games.
Erttheking, I see your posts all the time and I have to say that you are one of the better posters here.
As for what you've asked:
I am not a genetics specialist, but as far as I know every physiological and psychological trait is inherited. Meaning, weak will is inherited too. Maybe I am wrong and am simply tired of people thinking that they are supposed to be loved no matter how they act and look just because they exist.
I am dismissive of such disorders because the are DUUUUUUUMB. Only in this particular coutry could people get manically depressed because they have a few kilograms more than they want. In every other country you either get in shape or stop caring about it as long as you are healthy. I highly doubt that many coutries have such problems.
I am all for having different kinds of character designs, but this "campaign" is not about it. It is about shaming game developers and people who play and love games for not having boners (and their female variation) for bodily structure that slowly but surly (and sadly) is becoming a norm.
You've posted a picture of a woman as a reply to other poster. This woman looks BEAUTIFUL. She is, um, feminine, well propotioned and looks healthy. Those photoshoped characters look like people who are should run laps.
erttheking said:
Mister K said:
Yeah, also:
Eating disorder. The "disease" that could only be born in first world
It's a diagnosed thing. Just because you think it's poppycock doesn't make it so. A surprisingly similar attitude to how some people are dismissive towards depression I might add.
I'm gonna take a wild stab and guess that you never even knew that it was widespread around horse jockeys.
Nope, did not know that, but they at least have an excuse: they must be as light as possible to not be a burden to the horse. Some, I assume, take it too far. Forcing yourself to think that you will look better by not eating or by throwing up is something I am yet to see in any other region of our planet.
That's the tragedy of it. They aren't normal. The average sized woman looks like the picture I posted. As much as people don't want to talk about it, media can affect our view on what is normal. And the American view on the normal size of the female body...depressing
Getting exercise and being fit? These women aren't fit. There's nothing to them. No muscle whatsoever. They're made out of toothpicks. Christie honestly looks like she's anorexic. A fit woman would have some muscles. Not look like they eat 1,000 calories a day.
Ok, I'll admit some of them are a little on the chubby side (Especially the GTA V one) and the edits weren't done that well (Though Christie I still stand by as being a massive slap in the face for me), but the point is that all of the women shown are ridiculously thin to an unrealistic and frankly unhealthy degree.
*Points at Christie from Teken 5* That woman? She isn't healthy. She is dangerously underweight. In fact, a lot of these women look dangerously underweight. Some people say that that they look that way because they leave healthy lifestyles. If that were the case, they would have muscles instead of being built like toothpicks with a pair of grapes.
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