Female Perspective - Friend Zone

[Rannonzero]

The "friend zone" exists. Of course it does. And it sucks to be in it, because it isn't a zone any guy WANTS to be in. It is not being friends with a woman whom you are not sexually attracted to, it is being in love with a woman but having no reciprocation.

I think that may be the biggest part of the confusion if there is any here. Friends zone does not equal friends. This is because friends and sexual partners are two different distinctions. And this is because sexual relationships are very intense (well the good ones are) both emotionally and mentally. So if you want to have a friend AND have sex with them, you are talking about a serious relationship with all the bells and whistles.

Being in the friend zone is getting blue balls while pretending you don't have them. It is NOT being a good friend on either side.

This is not to say that you can't be friends with the opposite sex. I have a few women who are my FRIENDS. One of them I consider to be a very good friend. She helped me out with a lot of mental issues (I recommended that she go back to school and take up psychology because of the help she gave) and I think she is awesome. However, I have ZERO sexual attraction for her. This allows me to be her friend and not be in the friend zone.

That being said, the woman doesn't put you in the friend zone, you put yourself there. You have to realize (it's a tough lesson, I know) that your emotions don't rule your actions. Feel angry, betrayed, thrilled, obsessed, manic, or what have you, but understand that those feelings don't force you to act on them. Just because you like a girl doesn't mean you have to talk to her. And just because you are afraid of talking to her doesn't mean you have to run away. Granted, you can't control what emotions you feel, but I know from my own experiences that you can control what you do with those feelings. Until you are able to separate the two, you are bound to be controlled by them.

When a woman you like says "I'd like to just be friends" and you are HONESTLY ok with never sleeping with that woman, THEN say yes.

Otherwise, nothing is stopping you from saying "I understand. However, and I don't mean this in any kind of angry or vindictive way, but I don't think that would be good for me right now. Maybe at some later date when I am with someone far better than you, and I don't have this social weight over my head of having to have a girlfriend as socially acceptable as you or better, maybe THEN I could supplement my social status with a "friend" like you, but until then I would just be shooting myself in the foot by putting any amount of energy or commitment into a relationship of any kind with you when all it will amount to is me lying to everyone, myself, and you whenever I am around you." Or simply "Ah... well, honestly it would probably be better for both of us if we just went back to being acquaintances then. Friends isn't going to work for me right now."

I'm not saying that women couldn't be a bit more forthcoming about what they expect to be in relation to you when you pour your heart out, but I am saying you shouldn't take it lying down. Unless you LIKE being the shoulder to cry on and you LIKE being a brother figure, why should you take it? Don't be vindictive or mean, just be honest and move on. It's better for both of you, and you have no one to blame but yourself if you know this and find yourself in this situation where you are parked in the friend zone.

 

[Austin Ashe]

Ok facts of life time. chics want Alpha males that are all so nice guys, but most Alpha males are assholes. so like most woman they want what they can't have

Now before you say "but Joker I'm not an Alpha male and i got a GF" well that's because she couldn't get the Alpha male and settled for just the nice guy. just like you couldn't get the super model and settled for her.

See, this kind of thing is why, while I acknowledge the casual dating scene and all of it's facets, including things like "the friend zone", I simply cannot take it seriously.

Honestly, I'd take a woman I was in love with over any super model (assuming said super model is not the woman I was in love with). No, this isn't a loyalty thing or a self-sacrifice thing. Truth is, the observation of beauty is subjective, and the theoretical woman I love is, subjectively, more attractive to me than the super model would ever be. And while I could be absolutely enraged at the woman I love, I'd still be in love with her. Meanwhile, the super model would get her ass kicked out the door at the first sign of defiance, because I'm not desperate enough to put up with BS from any woman no matter how hot she is.

But love isn't even mentioned in these kinds of discussions, so I ultimately can't even take it seriously. It's just "I wanna fuck her but she won't let me and I feel like I'm less than a man because of it" and I just want to roll my eyes at it.

However, I have noticed particular patterns in these discussions:

There's always a guy who says that other guys are jerks for being mad about a woman not wanting to screw them. I often have to wonder if this man has ever even experienced the sheer awkwardness of continuing to talk to a woman who, let's face it, wasn't that close of a friend to you to begin with, and isn't going to date you, and even though there's really nothing between you, romantic or otherwise, you are still keeping in touch with her because you want to be nice and you want to be on good terms but it's just so wierd and you really don't have anything to say to her and she has nothing to say to you so you just smile and say hi and pretend that you're happy to see each other while in your minds you both want to get out of that situation as fast as you possibly can and and and blah blah blah etc. and so on.

There's also a lot of misogyny. As if the woman is a ***** for not putting out like the whore that she really isn't but we all pretend she is because it makes us feel better about not being validated by her. And then the "Murdering, drug dealing D-bag" is brought up, despite the fact that a woman who chooses him as an acceptable mate, even out of desperation, is not worth dating or, for that matter, even discussing. Granted, a lot of the, "she chose the d-bag over me" probably comes more from jealousy than truth in at least SOME cases, but certainly not all.

And the women are always here to defend themselves because, let's face it! We're attacking them!

 

[Austin Ashe]

Every girl states that she wants a "sweet, nice guy that will treat them right", and yet

-snip-

This right here is your problem. No, not EVERY girl says this. Sure, every fictional girl in every romantic comedy might say this, but as for the REAL ACTUAL NON-MADE-UP-BY-HOLLYWOOD girls I've listened to...

Some say they want someone who is taller than them (because for some reason some girls feel like freaks for being tall, not sure why). This is her basically admiting that she wants someone with certain physical features.

Some say they want a guy who is assertive. Yes, this is the typical alpha male. Keep in mind that I said SOME, and not all.

However, I've never actually heard a woman say that she wants someone who is nice or sweet. How the woman is treated is never even brought up.

Truth is, women are individuals. No one woman can speak for all of them. Blaming every woman for the actions of one is silly at best and sexist at worst.


Edit: Eeep, didn't mean to double post. Sorry!

 

[shitoutonme]

Every girl states that she wants a "sweet, nice guy that will treat them right", and yet

-snip-

This right here is your problem. No, not EVERY girl says this. Sure, every fictional girl in every romantic comedy might say this, but as for the REAL ACTUAL NON-MADE-UP-BY-HOLLYWOOD girls I've listened to...

Some say they want someone who is taller than them (because for some reason some girls feel like freaks for being tall, not sure why). This is her basically admiting that she wants someone with certain physical features.

Some say they want a guy who is assertive. Yes, this is the typical alpha male. Keep in mind that I said SOME, and not all.

However, I've never actually heard a woman say that she wants someone who is nice or sweet. How the woman is treated is never even brought up.

Truth is, women are individuals. No one woman can speak for all of them. Blaming every woman for the actions of one is silly at best and sexist at worst.


Edit: Eeep, didn't mean to double post. Sorry!

Actually, this isn't my problem, assuming you're referring to the friend zone. Like I said, I've never been in it, and as for everything else you said, I'll tell you the same thing I told that other guy. Allow me to self-quote:

Look, I'm not gonna sit here and play the "you're wrong" game with you over something completely relative. You obviously have experience that is completely opposite of my own. The very fact that you claim "once you are past high school the majority of girls do not like douchebags" proves this. I'm not gonna say that that is a misconception, even though it goes against everything I see, hear, and experience personally, because this is the internet. I can't tell if you're some woman-worshiping sap, or if you're being genuine.

Plus, you have to consider the possible reasons why we have contrary experiences. A good one would be the environments we live in, and I have little doubt that that's probably the main reason. It might be entirely possible that, in your area, women get over that whole phase of dating douchebags after high school, but from where I'm from and the places I've been to, there's little difference in taste between a 35-year-old woman and a 16-year-old as far as I can see.

Hell, maybe my views are jaded, and maybe yours are too. Who's to tell? You'd have to be one arrogant little bastard to think that your own experience holds true 100% of the time for everyone else, but even so, one can only really live by what they see and hear with their own senses. That being said, acting accordingly by what I've experienced has done wonders for me, so why should I suddenly start doing different just because you claim I'm delusional? Apparently, my delusions extend to my reality and affect the people around me.

In the end, you can only go with what works for you...

 

[JMeganSnow]

I disagree that values and sexual attraction are necessarily related. Sexual attraction is based more on chemistry and timing rather than values. Sure you can grow to find someone attractive due to their values, but if you are excited and then get hit with someone you have extreme chemistry with values are the last thing to come to mind. It usually takes everything you have to resist your sexual attraction at that point =)

Chemistry = traits with strong emotional connotations. Emotions are based on values. Ergo, chemistry is ultimately values-based. Granted, some people's consciously held and subconsciously automated values do not add up, so they'll find themselves having "chemistry" with people they despise or even weirder situations.

It's really not all that complicated. What gets complicated is people's reactions to it.

 

[Elamdri]

To be honest, I wouldn't say the 'Friend Zone' exists, i've had more than one girlfriend whom I was long term friends with before we dated. (And remained friends with when the relationships ran their courses)

Funny thing is they lasted a hell of a lot longer than many relationships because we actually had a solid foundation to build on and common interests, only reason one of the relationships ended was because of distance sadly. I'd totally ask her out again if I ever moved closer to her or vice versa.

The Friend Zone doesn't mean that you can't date a girl that you are friends with. The Friend Zone is a condition where a guy is in love with a girl who does not reciprocate those feelings, but rather than cut him loose, she keeps him around as a friend. At that point, the guy has got to either get over his feelings and cut her loose (hard to do) or continue to be friends with someone who he desires a much deeper relationship (painful)

 

[Random Argument Man]

Friend zone applies to both sex by the way. Granted, you hear the term from guys who've been rejected since saying "I like her as a friend" seems to diminish your masculinity.

 

[Lionsfan]

Friend zone applies to both sex by the way. Granted, you hear the term from guys who've been rejected since saying "I like her as a friend" seems to diminish your masculinity.

Or you just get called a liar, and your Real Feeling's for her are down there, you don't want to admit it to yourself.

 

[Adam Galli]

One of my good friends is a girl and while at one point we could've dated, I decided not to ask her out because I thought we had a great friendship and I didn't want to ruin that if something terrible happened in a relationship.

 

[Judgement101]

If that is your stance then I shall make my own. It is made by girls who claim it was made by guys who claim it was made bu girls so they have an excuse to not go out with someone.

+1 confusion

It's not you, It's me. =)

what?

+10 confusion

I don't want to mess this up. Any girl would be insane not to want to throw you down and ...
I am just afraid I would let you down, and I never want to hurt you.

How many bonus points is that? }8)

At least 900. Serious, I am beyond confused now.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I disagree that values and sexual attraction are necessarily related. Sexual attraction is based more on chemistry and timing rather than values. Sure you can grow to find someone attractive due to their values, but if you are excited and then get hit with someone you have extreme chemistry with values are the last thing to come to mind. It usually takes everything you have to resist your sexual attraction at that point =)

Chemistry = traits with strong emotional connotations. Emotions are based on values. Ergo, chemistry is ultimately values-based. Granted, some people's consciously held and subconsciously automated values do not add up, so they'll find themselves having "chemistry" with people they despise or even weirder situations.

It's really not all that complicated. What gets complicated is people's reactions to it.

No, no I am talking about Physical chemistry. Pheromones, the scent that drives you to act on your primitive instincts. You may be completey not interested in someone and have your body craving sex with them like mad. I am talking about "primal urges and needs" . You may not even know a person and be sexually attracted to their "scent".

 

[JMeganSnow]

No, no I am talking about Physical chemistry. Pheromones, the scent that drives you to act on your primitive instincts. You may be completey not interested in someone and have your body craving sex with them like mad. I am talking about "primal urges and needs" . You may not even know a person and be sexually attracted to their "scent".

Bull pucky. There is no evidence whatsoever to back this up. Human pheremones don't produce sexual arousal. (They do produce a certain degree of relaxation and comfort feelings--up to a point.)

Physical attractiveness is a value like any other. So is smelling good. Failure to introspect and be aware of the sources of one's emotions does not change that fact.

 

[RiboNucleicAxe]

I know they won't run into a burning house to save me like my friends would (and I would for them).

Really? Because I'd do this for any of my male friends. It's why when I was growing up I was glad that Canada is one of the few countries in the world with conscription for both sexes - if we ever went to war my friends wouldn't be forced to go off without me like they would in, say, the US draft.

I've walked them home from bars, I've driven two hours out of my way at four in the morning to pick them up so they wouldn't have to drink and drive, I've helped pull them off of each other when they're fighting, I've let them sleep in my room when their fathers were drunk and hitting them, I've let them cry on my shoulder when they broke up with their girlfriends... because my bros are the best and they'd do the same for me.

You don't think I'm worthy of being your friend because I happen to have an extra X chromosome? Your loss, comrade. I'll stick to being friends with - and sleeping with - men who think more highly of me than that.

This is one of the few examples of proper friendship I've read on this thread. I hope they're as good to you as you are to them <3

 

[Cookie-darling]

Personally, it doesn't matter how long it takes for a guy to ask a girl out. If she is extremely interested in you, that won't change. She might move on if she thinks you aren't interested in her, but if you eventually show your interest she will probably reciprocate as long as she is not in a committed relationship. It is also very important for a guy and a girl to be good friends before they start dating. It's rather stupid to do it the other way around, because then all you have is the passion, none of the intimacy or commitment. It is very important to have all three components for a lasting relationship to work. Intimacy is translated as having trust between one another and being able to share all your deepest thoughts whenever you wish. If you begin dating someone, but you barely know them, or you have no intimacy with this person or desire for a true commitment, then you are simply having a sexual relationship. Which is totally cool if that's what you both want. Either way, though, if a girl likes a guy, she shouldn't wait forever for him to ask her out and then simply move on when he does not- if she really wants to be with him, she should drop a lot of big hints, or perhaps even ask him out herself. It's not taboo.

 

[Cookie-darling]

No, no I am talking about Physical chemistry. Pheromones, the scent that drives you to act on your primitive instincts. You may be completey not interested in someone and have your body craving sex with them like mad. I am talking about "primal urges and needs" . You may not even know a person and be sexually attracted to their "scent".

Bull pucky. There is no evidence whatsoever to back this up. Human pheremones don't produce sexual arousal. (They do produce a certain degree of relaxation and comfort feelings--up to a point.)

Physical attractiveness is a value like any other. So is smelling good. Failure to introspect and be aware of the sources of one's emotions does not change that fact.

Actually, we are all animals. Animals in the wild give off a chemical into the air that attracts the mate to them. Females give off a chemical attraction to males, and vice versa. It is actually quite scientific. Human pheromones is a controversial subject that we do not fully understand, but there is a natural animal craving for sex. Naturally, people are attracted to people who are symmetrical. http://www.livescience.com/7023-rules-attraction-game-love.html
Women often state they love the smell of men's shirts, armpits, and sweat. The sweat has their natural body chemicals in it. Most people do not find people attractive who are unhealthy and non symmetrical. This goes back to animal instincts of wanting to find the best mate possible. Women are more choosy because they have to find the ideal male to carry on the gene pool. Most women do desire to be with a fit, healthy and rich man. Not because they are shallow, but because he provides security and healthy genetics. Men are less picky because they only need to inseminate any female in the world and they will have a high chance of creating offspring. They are kinda choosy, but they simply want females who display fertile characteristics such as good hips, round breasts, and a very feminine form. A woman who looks like a man will be less attractive to the majority of men at first sight- it would be more about intellect there, and that is a whole other story. I have heard many men state they love the smell of the female genitalia, or even just the smell of female sweat. It's the same thing as a woman loving the scent of a man's sweat or clothing. And I am not referring to men who spray a bunch of cologne on.