'Feminazi' is sadly one of the most common examples of Godwin in our society.

[thom_cat_]

Ummmm... how?

It was popularised by Rush Limbaugh in the 90s, not used to discriminate between extremists (in part, because women wanting to wear pants and control their bodies are all extremists). Retroactively defining it, even as people are still using the original term more prevalently (including Rush, who still uses it pretty frequently), is ridiculous. You're justifying the term as it's used by the majority, as well as any rationalisation to your retcon meaning.

So, it's worse to call extreme feminists feminazis than calling all feminists feminazis because you're allowing the usage of the term?
I'm sorry, but that's fucking stupid.
I'm also pretty sure, that by the overwhelming amount of people disagreeing with how the OP defined it that the majority do not use the term to label all feminists. It has already been retroactively re-defined. It is in no way worse to re-define a totally negative term than to use the negative term in the first place.

 

[Phasmal]

Snip again

You can call yourself `Darkmalte the magic masculinist pixie` and I will not give a shit.

I used to know the name of a feminist website run by and for men, but I cant remember what it is. I'm pretty sure there's an ad being run at the moment focusing on mens vicimisation, (I think its called `real men get raped`). As for your other points, you were not making any `other` points to me, as far as I can see.

I think you and I should just agree that equal rights are important, and then agree to disagree on the way we want to phrase it. Seems the best way to keep things cheerful.

 

[Something Amyss]

That may be the origin but the way most people use it is similar to how people say "grammar-Nazi" as has been pointed out in this thread plenty.

And as I've pointed out time and again, that's a false assertion.

I wasn't complaining about you trying to change it btw, I was complaining about you using the wrongly applied examples of a term to show why it should be not used any more.

Oh, I see. You were knocking down a strawman. Excellent.

 

[Something Amyss]

'******' is insulting because it brings to bear the history of oppression of black people and has the implication that somebody is inferior simply by being black. There is no sliding scale of blackness.

I know many people who would disagree on degrees of blackness. After all, wasn't this a big issue with Barry O?

There is a sliding scale of extremism. The word feminazi is not an insult referring to ALL feminists, only those at the far end of that sliding scale.

Unless you use the definition used by the man who coined it and the majority users. Saying "But it's about extremism!" Is bullshit.

To recap:

"******" is bad because it carries a negative connotations. "Feminazi," a word coined specifically as a derogatory term for feminists and still used that way by a majority base and the originator of the word, is not offensive because it doesn't carry negative connotations.

Gotcha.

So your analogy makes no sense.

Only if you are playing make-believe.

You're still trying to rationalise a "there are black people and there are niggers" argument. Exactly what I already stated.

Okay, so they're wrong. A lot of people being wrong doesn't make them right. A lot of people should find it obvious otherwise a lot of people are stupid.

Yes, the majority is wrong in using a term as it was defined.

And even if that weren't inane, that doesn't change the whole "it's obvious" thing being completely wrong.

It's evidently not obvious.

Very good point, and I will make sure to never use that phraise again. For some -likely bizarre and nonsensical- reason, I never associated "Feminazi" with "Nazi".

This was a breath of fresh air, and I thank you. It's not often you see someone's eyes actually opened, especially on the interwebs.

 

[razer17]

Lets go to the man who popularized the word, Rush Limbaugh

"I prefer to call the most obnoxious feminists what they really are: feminazis. The term describes any female who is intolerant of any point of view that challenges militant feminism. I often use it to describe women who are obsessed with perpetuating a modern-day holocaust: abortion.

A feminazi is a woman to whom the most important thing in life is seeing to it that as many abortions as possible are performed. Their unspoken reasoning is quite simple. Abortion is the single greatest avenue for militant women to exercise their quest for power and advance their belief that men aren?t necessary. Nothing matter but me, says the feminazi; the is an unviable tissue mass. Feminazis have adopted abortion as a kind of sacrament for their religion/politics of alienation and bitterness."

So their it is in context, that is how it first got popular. They are feminazi's because women can have abortions and men can't, talk about a double standard.

Feminazi is a stupid term, and you sound unreasonable when you use it. There are plenty that use it that think anyone who is pro-choice just wants to wrack up the abortion high score.

That might be the original usage, but I'm sure most people who have used the term don't use it to mean that feminists love abortions. I think we can all agree that Rush Limbaugh is just a massive idiot, stuck somewhere in the 1700's attitude wise.

None of this really has an effect on the viability of using the term to describe militant feminists. Obviously extremist feminists aren't trying to get abortion high scores, us reasonable people know this, but they do still have "extremist" views. I don't use the term feminazi anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm defending it.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Ok then, how about we look at it like this.


I've never hear of anyone say feminazi in real life, I don't even think I've heard of it on TV, I've never said it myself either. I would say that, presuming that most people are like me, it is more likely that the term is perceived by the vast majority of the population to be just one more type of nazi for people to be, rather than a specific bad word aimed at all kinds of feminists.



If we take the above for granted, it should be easy to accept that this term does mean what grammar nazi means, when we replace grammar with feminists.



Even if you say otherwise, you really can't change the fact that many people really did and still do understand the term as I say and to those you're acting irrational here, which is not how you will garner their favor and support in creating a word with equality.

Yes, the majority is wrong in using a term as it was defined.

And even if that weren't inane, that doesn't change the whole "it's obvious" thing being completely wrong.

It's evidently not obvious.

What I said was obvious is that feminists aren't Nazis, which is obvious to everyone. You're a fucking idiot if you believe that the majority of people think feminists are Nazis.

I'm not entirely certain why you're still arguing with me though. The majority of people are wrong in the use of feminazi; feminists aren't Nazis (which is obvious); the term is a link of fanaticism and extremism not ideology; where have I been wrong in what I've said?

See, this man gets it, he's just a little irate because people are being a little dense here with defining a word in their own way and disregarding how 99% of the population perceives it when they decide to call it evil.

 

[drisky]

That might be the original usage, but I'm sure most people who have used the term don't use it to mean that feminists love abortions. I think we can all agree that Rush Limbaugh is just a massive idiot, stuck somewhere in the 1700's attitude wise.

None of this really has an effect on the viability of using the term to describe militant feminists. Obviously extremist feminists aren't trying to get abortion high scores, us reasonable people know this, but they do still have "extremist" views. I don't use the term feminazi anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm defending it.

He has a high number of fans that don't agree that he is a massive idiot. Fans of Urban dictionary share the word with Limbaugh fans. As I said in my first post, it is more effective to use words like extremist rather then a word that has no real meaning. Insisting on using slang devalues the arguments, because you can't just take their word for it in what they mean. Hell I think most people have met haven't met anyone deserving of the word, just people they heard about on the internet. The whole thing implies that those who use it fell that there is a significant portion of feminists that take it to far, enough to warrant there being a new word that has common use. It is that kind of assumption that a significant number of feminists hate men that makes even many women not want to call themselves feminists, even when they are.

Go to any youtube and look at videos about feminism, read the comments and then tell me that most understand that feminism is overall a good thing. The ones in this comment section doesn't even use feminazi, just feminism, I believe using feminazi has a good chance of making one lumped in with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8jPZOTFyHI&feature=related

 

[Something Amyss]

So, it's worse to call extreme feminists feminazis than calling all feminists feminazis because you're allowing the usage of the term?
I'm sorry, but that's fucking stupid.

I agree. Thankfully, that's not what I said. So you are criticising it why?

I'm also pretty sure, that by the overwhelming amount of people disagreeing with how the OP defined it that the majority do not use the term to label all feminists.

Oh, well, if YOU are PRETTY SURE....

It has already been retroactively re-defined.

Except it really hasn't. But hey, it's no more inaccurate than attributing that first bit to me, so....

 

[F4LL3N]

I somewhat believe what you are saying, and I can't help but think I am part of the reason you wrote this thread.

"Feminism is better described as an ideology that is based upon reverse engineering male supremacy in society"

I quite like this definition for some reason. Regardless, when I think someone as a feminazi, I think of someone who puts females before males, and to a lesser extent, everyone and everything else (the unborn.) But even more, a female who puts females first. Sure, stand up for your own "kind"... But male's have put males first for quite some time, so that doesn't work--clearly.

The Guardian is a great example of dumb fucks who do not know what the fuck they are talking about, to put it nicely--but this doesn't necessarily relate to my above definition; I hate these people for a completely different reason. Several people on here I would regard as Feminazi's... In fact, to a lesser extent, I would regard most people on here as Feminazi's (at least those who contribute to certain topics.)

I do care about equal rights, but I do not give a fuck about males (as a whole in society, in relation to women and equal rights.) Quite honestly, I do care about females more than males. I'm still of the belief, "women and children first"... well actually, "children, and then decent-non-**** women second... and then males if they're lucky; whether they are "innocent" or not..."

Basically, I'm equal rights; feminist; but I hate so called "feminazi's" because they seem to me to be counteractive; the "anti-christ' if you will, of actual progession. I hate the idea in particular because I somewhat see a new wave of oppression--by women. Over reactionary perhaps, but not unfounded (although it's never going to happen ....)

Godwin's law says something about the mentioning of Hitler... If it says, "you're a tool for mentioning Hitler," I'd be inclined to disagree. Some things are comparable to Hitler. E.g. If you believe unborn babies are human, that's ~50 million murders per year. Genocide? To put it nicely, yes. To put it un-nicely; well, I don't want to be banned.

 

[CrystalShadow]

snip

At the risk of pointing out something super obvious, you could've avoided that by simply not getting into protracted arguments with people you know to be irrational bigots.

Oh, I know. But I'm stupid like that. Oh, and sometimes it sneaks up on you too.

 

[CrystalShadow]

because this particular subset of feminists happen to be incredibly bigoted transphobes...

No group is filled with perfect people.

It's true that there are some feminists who could be more understanding towards transsexuals.

As a whole, though, I find the biggest contention between the two, is that transsexuals insist that they are mentally biologically female, and often subscribe to notions that female behavior is innate and that they were born with it. While most feminists see this as more of a stereotype they have subscribed to.

Of course, there are all sorts of takes on transgender or topics playing with gender among feminists. But I find that the mainstream opinion is making a big deal out of culture as the cause of most gender roles.

This leads feminists to often approaching essentialist claims about gender roles by some transsexuals to saying, "are you sure that's a female thing and not just something you've been led to believe by society", a notion that some, if not many, transsexuals who believe strongly they were born in the wrong body, don't appreciate.

Usually that's the extent of disagreement, though. Not to say there aren't feminists out there who are transphobes, homophobes, racists, sexists, or the like. But in my experience, the majority opinion among feminists is a highly skeptical position on gender roles completely.

Again, this sometimes leads to a bit of conflict of belief on the nature of gender between feminists and transsexuals. But nothing too extreme, usually.

Yes, that does seem to be at the heart of the problem. I was going to say something far more extensive, but after getting sucked in to re-reading some of the things that I was trying to process beforehand, I don't think I really want to go there anymore.

Suffice it to say that nearly everyone that I've had problems refers to themselves as 'radical feminists'. - While that doesn't mean even that all 'radical feminists' are like that. (I know for a fact that isn't the case either), it does perhaps explain what kind of attitude is involved.

I will however still leave this here, because I think it's directly relevant to the kind of things that probably inform what this thread is about:
http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/patriarchy-blaming-the-twisty-way/scum-manifesto/

It's quite difficult to interpret this in a positive way, and certainly anyone that sees it without any surrounding context... Well, I don't expect it will give them much of a positive view of feminism if they don't realise that it isn't representative of feminism as a whole.