Feminism: has it gone to far?

[WestMountain]

In Sweden it have gone way too far, if there's 2 people, 1 guy , 1 girl, who searches for a a well paid and prestigeful job the girl gets the job even if she is not as competent as the guy no matter what.

It's called inkvotation in swedish, I tried to find a translation on it to english but it's probably a so obscure concept that it only exists in extremely politically correct Sweden.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Why does feminism and masculism even exist? Shouldn't there be just one organization involving both genders that try to combat inequalities on both sides?

Anyways, nowadays I do believe women are more privileged than men:

- Women constitute 60% of college degrees, due to special grants, organizations, full scholarships, women only loans, all of which discriminate in favor of women and against men.
(National Center for Education Statistics: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_258.asp)

-Men are only 40% of college students, and yet no men's resource centers exist on college campuses to help them with their educations, nor are there any men's scholarships or grants, like there are for women.
(National Center for Education Statistics: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d08/ch_3.asp)


-Women are 70.7% of nonreciprocal domestic violence perpetrators; but, no shelters exist for battered men.
(American Psychiatric Association: http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/42/15/31.2.full)


-Women are 15% of the homeless, while men represent 85%; but, shelters refuse to take in men, if there is a woman, who needs that room.
(The United States Conference of Mayors:http://usmayors.org/HHSurvey2007/hhsurvey07.pdf)

-The federal government supports small businesses that are owned by women; but, it does not support small businesses that are owned by men.
(Department of Defense Office of Small Business Programs: http://www.acq.osd.mil/osbp/programs/wosb/index.htm)

-Women are near guaranteed alimony and child custody. As well as being given half, if not more, of the total posessions.

(I've heard it on the news and from other people whose parents were divorced. Custody was unanimously given to the mother with no specific reason cited at all whilst the father was forced to be a "weekend" dad. It happened to me as well, with the judge awarding custody to my mother citing absolutely no reason.)

-Men are more likely to die from every major cause of death, and yet no Office on Mens Health exists. Only a Office on Womens Health does.
(Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the National Center for Health Statistics: http://www.menshealthnetwork.org/library/TopCausesDeath2000.pdf)

-Males were purposely discluded in the Federal Prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation Act of 1995.
(http://ftp.resource.org/gpo.gov/bills/104/h941ih.txt.pdf)

-Men are 80% of homicide victims, and yet no Violence Against Men Act exists. Only a Violence Against Women Act does.
(The Federal Bureau of Justice Statistics:http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/gender.cfm)

Women still earn a large percentage less than men for similar work and employment...they make up substantially smaller proportions of high income earners, CEO's, managers, professors etc...

Look at the world of games design...I can't name a single woman connected to gaming...well Rebecca Mayes...but she doesn't make games.

Feminism will have gone far enough when women form a proportion of business, social and political leaders equivalent to their proportion of society. About 52%, there are more of them than there are of us. From social norms (men are "playas" women are "hos", men are "strong" women are "weak".) to the workplace, feminism needs to work harder.

Feminism has not gone too far. In fact it has not gone far enough.

I always hear the pay argument being thrown around whenever there's a discussion about feminism or female rights but I always wondered, where are the facts?

 

[spartandude]

i would actually say that feminism is dead

an actual feminist wants eaquality between both sexes (and speaking as a man) i think we should be eaqual and they are right to want that

however it seems that they arnt truely campaining for this anymore, most of it is purely sexists anti male propoganda, which tbh is hurting their cause more than anything else

and example is how women got the vote in Britain, originally the Suffragetts were doing more peaceful campaigns and were close to getting the vote, then they became violent and the government actually began to resent them, but during WW1 they were doing jobs which men were traditionally doing and this proved them to be eaqual and got them the vote

the morale of the story is that by acting eaqual they will seem eaqual, but being sexist is not only hypocritical but harming their own goals

 

[Fridge]

In Sweden it have gone way too far, if there's 2 people, 1 guy , 1 girl, who searches for a a well paid and prestigeful job the girl gets the job even if she is not as competent as the guy no matter what.

It's called inkvotation in swedish, I tried to find a translation on it to english but it's probably a so obscure concept that it only exists in extremely politically correct Sweden.

I think the term is positive discrimination, I could be wrong though.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

come to Australia, where men are second class citizens. I hear New Zealand has it worse though. And English women are all Hitler from what I can tell, though that's not a legal equality thing, that's just a land of screwed up personalities. I get the feeling that a lot of husband-beating goes on over there.

When you said 'English women are all Hitler' I nearly choked to death on a jaffa cake. That is fucking hilarious. Thankyou.

OT from now on:

Yeah, they get on average paid less than men for the same work.
They're more likely to be assaulted, infinitely more likely to be raped, and more likely to be killed.

They get paid pretty much the same. The difference is well under 50p/hour between men and women. Its never going to be EXACT.
Assault and rape are both disgusting crimes committed by fucked up guys... you know, the kind of guys that dont give a rats ass about rights? Its not like rape is anywhere near encouraged by anyone outside of a mental institute or prison, and it is most definately extremely illegal.
As for more likely to be killed? Same thing; its not that women dont have rights or laws to protect them, its just that certain people choose to ignore them. Those people are hunted down and punished. The vast, vast majority of men would agree that murder and rape are horrible crimes but there is no way to sort them from the few sadists and perverts.

What im trying to say is that women and men are about as equal as it is possible to be, taking into account human nature.

 

[BringBackBuck]

They're more likely to be assaulted, infinitely more likely to be raped, and more likely to be killed.

More likely to be assaulted and killed? Don't think so. Most violence is committed by men against men.

EDIT: And here is a superbly referenced post with the very statistic I was looking for (sorry I posted without reading through the whole thread)

-Men are 80% of homicide victims, and yet no Violence Against Men Act exists. Only a Violence Against Women Act does.
(The Federal Bureau of Justice Statistics:http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/gender.cfm)

 

[GiantRedButton]

Women are still discriminated against by the army here. Army only conscripts men, which is very sexist, so no, I don't think it's gone far enough.

What's that? Feminisist are strangely quiet on this issue? Blimey.

They aren't allowed because they are worse at it. There are differences in speed endurance etc. In Physical ed etc you can counteract that by giving woman better gradess for less, atleast thats how my country does it.
But you can't do that in a war.

 

[JanatUrlich]

If you think that women are equal to men then I am afraid you are mistaken.

 

[Private Custard]

Can you name some specific examples of why you think that way OP? Just curious.

I can name one instance in modern culture that really pisses me off. There are a hell of a lot of times where men in advertising are made to look like idiotic, stumbling, moronic, tactless fools. Or even worse, are taken the piss out of for doing nothing in particular, apart from having a penis!

An example


I mean, what in the fuck did he do that warranted being blasted out of a window, just so she could have the sofa?

She only harmed herself though, 'cos now she has period pain, and has no-one to ***** about it to!!

 

[Mikkaddo]

Ok...I don't want to start a war..or get shouted at...but I really think that feminism has gone a bit to far. I mean that I think that the feminists have done what they set out to do and now they are just trying to make them selves better then men.

Tell me what you think of feminism...and please don't flame me. Please?

The problem is the same problem that people like Jessie Jackson have.

When Femenism started, it was about raising women to the same level as men. Think about it, when it first happened, men were considered normal to want to be with tons of girls all the time and never remember who was what. But for a woman to have been with more than one man?! OH NO! HERESY! Femenism was originally about tearing down that wall. As you see in ALL ELDER CINEMA THAT FEMINISTS REFUSE TO ADMIT TO. Women not being "objectified" but rather being in FULL controll of their sexual ability, sex appeal, intelligence and power over men. Just as men are assumed to be with their own.

This was not only something that was (I think) nessicary, but it all but FREED women from the assumptions of generations LONG past about gender roles in an evolving society.

Fastforward to 2010. Women's sufferage has been more than finished for oh say about 50-60 years . . . now, look at Jessie. Segregation has been done and finished for about oh . . . 60-80 years depending on your exact definition of what "ended" it or at least was the begining of the end.

Now, without a war to fight, we have soldiers craving the battlefield. Searching desperately for what once gave them glory. A lot of the women in the feminist movement today were raised by the warriors of that ancient battle before them. They wanted to continue their mothers' fights. They wanted to stand up against the oppression and burn their bras. They wanted to say "LOOK AT ME! I AM A WOMAN! BUT I AM NO LESS THAN A MAN!" but now . . . it almost seems that ending the oppression of women that was once so great and powerful has left the movement insecure . . . like Jessie Jackson . . . and his people who honestly (gods this hurts) went so far to find racism as to claim they refuse to believe in "black holes" and demand science admit to the existance of "white holes" to counter act them. Yes . . . they went so far as to create a scientific phenomenon to be able to find racism where none could be found. Look it up.

But again on feminism, the war is over, but the warriors still crave a use for their sword. It's why the legions in Rome would volunteer at the Arena, it's why in the mid east there's still wars over the land in Israel. The genders are nearly equal . . . but it happened so fast, and so suddenly that none of the warriors fighting expected to have to NOT be fighting.

 

[Mikkaddo]

Women are still discriminated against by the army here. Army only conscripts men, which is very sexist, so no, I don't think it's gone far enough.

What's that? Feminisist are strangely quiet on this issue? Blimey.

They aren't allowed because they are worse at it. There are differences in speed endurance etc. In Physical ed etc you can counteract that by giving woman better gradess for less, atleast thats how my country does it.
But you can't do that in a war.

As well there has been a scientific study for the air force, and if a woman is piloting a jet during her period, there's a very real chance of the blood moving backward into her system causing SERIOUS INFECTIONS THAT CAN LEAD TO DEATH. Therefore . . . chances are best you go with a man instead. If they have to die . . . let it be by the enemy's hand, not nature's.

 

[Mikkaddo]

They get paid pretty much the same. The difference is well under 50p/hour between men and women. Its never going to be EXACT.
Assault and rape are both disgusting crimes committed by fucked up guys... you know, the kind of guys that dont give a rats ass about rights? Its not like rape is anywhere near encouraged by anyone outside of a mental institute or prison, and it is most definately extremely illegal.
As for more likely to be killed? Same thing; its not that women dont have rights or laws to protect them, its just that certain people choose to ignore them. Those people are hunted down and punished. The vast, vast majority of men would agree that murder and rape are horrible crimes but there is no way to sort them from the few sadists and perverts.

What im trying to say is that women and men are about as equal as it is possible to be, taking into account human nature.

ok, speaking AS a sadist, I have to refute part of that. I don't at all think rape is ok or good. Rape is the forced removal of someone's control and humanity for sexual purposes . . . where as BDSM is completely consentual or else it has turned in to, say it with me now . . . RAPE. SO unless the sadist or pervert (both me actually) CHOOSES to do things to a partner who is unwilling . . . then they don't condone rape simply by being sadistic or perverse.

 

[Danzaivar]

...which undeniably show that women are less likely than men to make a claim on their car insurance.

And that's sexist. Right or wrong, it's discrimination by sex, which is sexist.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Why does feminism and masculism even exist? Shouldn't there be just one organization involving both genders that try to combat inequalities on both sides?

Anyways, nowadays I do believe women are more privileged than men:

- Women constitute 60% of college degrees, due to special grants, organizations, full scholarships, women only loans, all of which discriminate in favor of women and against men.
(National Center for Education Statistics: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_258.asp)

-Men are only 40% of college students, and yet no men's resource centers exist on college campuses to help them with their educations, nor are there any men's scholarships or grants, like there are for women.
(National Center for Education Statistics: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d08/ch_3.asp)


-Women are 70.7% of nonreciprocal domestic violence perpetrators; but, no shelters exist for battered men.
(American Psychiatric Association: http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/42/15/31.2.full)


-Women are 15% of the homeless, while men represent 85%; but, shelters refuse to take in men, if there is a woman, who needs that room.
(The United States Conference of Mayors:http://usmayors.org/HHSurvey2007/hhsurvey07.pdf)

-The federal government supports small businesses that are owned by women; but, it does not support small businesses that are owned by men.
(Department of Defense Office of Small Business Programs: http://www.acq.osd.mil/osbp/programs/wosb/index.htm)

-Women are near guaranteed alimony and child custody. As well as being given half, if not more, of the total posessions.

(I've heard it on the news and from other people whose parents were divorced. Custody was unanimously given to the mother with no specific reason cited at all whilst the father was forced to be a "weekend" dad. It happened to me as well, with the judge awarding custody to my mother citing absolutely no reason.)

-Men are more likely to die from every major cause of death, and yet no Office on Mens Health exists. Only a Office on Womens Health does.
(Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the National Center for Health Statistics: http://www.menshealthnetwork.org/library/TopCausesDeath2000.pdf)

-Males were purposely discluded in the Federal Prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation Act of 1995.
(http://ftp.resource.org/gpo.gov/bills/104/h941ih.txt.pdf)

-Men are 80% of homicide victims, and yet no Violence Against Men Act exists. Only a Violence Against Women Act does.
(The Federal Bureau of Justice Statistics:http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/gender.cfm)

Women still earn a large percentage less than men for similar work and employment...they make up substantially smaller proportions of high income earners, CEO's, managers, professors etc...

Look at the world of games design...I can't name a single woman connected to gaming...well Rebecca Mayes...but she doesn't make games.

Feminism will have gone far enough when women form a proportion of business, social and political leaders equivalent to their proportion of society. About 52%, there are more of them than there are of us. From social norms (men are "playas" women are "hos", men are "strong" women are "weak".) to the workplace, feminism needs to work harder.

Feminism has not gone too far. In fact it has not gone far enough.

I always hear the pay argument being thrown around whenever there's a discussion about feminism or female rights but I always wondered, where are the facts?

Agreed.

I am not aiming to say that men are better than women or vica versa

I am just judging from what I have seen and experienced as someone who lives in Norway, and I acknowledge that I may not have all the facts or answers.

Here, in Norway, where I live and breathe, Women are treated as equals to men, except they get more rights (Like joining the army being a choice for them, but not for men, or being more likely to be considered over a man in a matter of employment even if the man is just as competent or more). I have seen cases where women have been discriminated against, sure, but those are a very small minority, and it is often other women who discriminate women here. I also regret to say that people I know have also been raped, and I can not defend this, but I can say that I would never do such a thing and don't know anyone who could be a possible rapist (I MAY VERY WELL BE WRONG).

Right now, I'm going to a community college, and there's an overweight of girls here. There has been a rape case here in the first two weeks, but very serious measures have been taken to investigate the case and give the victim the help she needed, and it is not even proven that she was actually raped. I am saying this because many people agree that it is weird that A) she is surprisingly chipper despite something that people consider such a traumatic experience, B) We only have her word for it, and C) She herself has chosen not to go to a psychiatrist or get any follow-up treatment. I am not saying she is lying, I am saying there hasn't been valid proof to get the suspect jailed, and the circumstances are blurry at best. Other than this, the only conflicts between males and females are completely normal, day-to-day conflicts that could very well happen between any people, and even those are few and far between. No one seems to mind the situation, and many people are getting along smoothly.

What I am going to say, though, is that many people ignore that abuse and rape against males exist and is at least as bad a problem as male on female abuse and rape. The reason why it's considered "rare" is because men are afraid of admitting that a woman might have done such a thing to them, and with good reason. Very few of the reported cases are taken seriously by the police, and little to no help is given to the victims. There has also been a noted rise of females training martial arts and acquiring weapons, and there have been serious proof of very violent girl gangs, especially around the capitol.

I hope I at least gave a bit more nuanced picture. Probably not, but I'm trying. And before anyone calls me a misogynist, I love women. I love men too. My friends are both women and men, and I love and respect them equally. I also hope that some day women and men will be at least approximately equal. Okay?

Cue the honking cries of "MISOGYNISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!oneoneeleven!
Sigh

 

[Dexiro]

Feminists these days are just attention seekers. The kind that are still throwing around the term "chauvinist" don't realise it applies more to them than anyone else.

 

[Blind Sight]

Depends, some folks take it too far, mostly the people who run Women's Studies courses in universities. But other then that, no, feminism has not gone too far, a large percentage of the world's female population is still treated like crap. Even in Western countries women are on average paid less then men for the same jobs. So no, the vast majority of women are still being unfairly treated. However, those feminists who get upset when I open a door for them can go to hell. It's called manners, not oppression.

Bear in mind that women do have some advantages as well, which further complicates things. Maybe we should just stop putting people into little groups and judge them instead on something useful like, I don't know, ability? Intelligence?

 

[BGH122]

Whether or not it's gone to far depends on the feminist in question. The "Both sexes should be treated equally" kind of feminists are fine; the "Women are the superior race! Everything with a penis must be castrated and crucified! We don't need a filthy, inferior man to continue the human race; we'll just grow babies on farms!" kind are kinda fucking insane.

Yeah, this.

The problem is that it's the fucking insane feminazis that are the most vocal. Egalitarians, i.e. the 'equality is fun for all' version of feminism, realise that equality now exists and are a silent majority. Feminazis are still shrieking and whining over things that are only sexist in their own head. For instance, Harriet Harman (**** of all cunts) was a Labour politician incumbent in the UK house of parliament last year and she brought into law a law which strips men of their legal right to sue on basis of discrimination if passed over at a job interview but allows women to do so. That's just feminazism. There is no basis in an egalitarian society for such misandric and unjust laws.

 

[icame]

There annoying, i just ignore them. Make everything completely equal, not just what benefits woman, and that will make everything fine.

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~ntyamash/feminist3.gif

 

[Estocavio]

Women already have more rights than men -

Feminism hasn't existed since the 80s.

Not True Feminism anyway, now its about female Superiority, instead of equality.

I agree - Id explain my opinion fully, but i couldnt be bothered.

And for thing at the start about naming an example, and a calender shoot thing, and the reply to that by Lileth, that would be due to the lack of any large feminist group, which makes all counters localised.

Feminists these days are just attention seekers. The kind that are still throwing around the term "chauvinist" don't realise it applies more to them than anyone else.

Lets just pretend i quoted every single other person who said something along these lines as well, and said i agree with them also.

 

[BGH122]

What I am going to say, though, is that many people ignore that abuse and rape against males exist and is at least as bad a problem as male on female abuse and rape. The reason why it's considered "rare" is because men are afraid of admitting that a woman might have done such a thing to them, and with good reason. Very few of the reported cases are taken seriously by the police, and little to no help is given to the victims.

It's worse than you give credit for. Whenever a man is raped we're supposed to find it hilarious, indeed the media often shows male rape as a comedic event (one scene that comes to mind is Peter in family guy saying to his wife "I was raped" and being laughed at, I know it's just a cartoon and I'm not suggesting otherwise but let's face it: the reverse would never happen nor would it be considered acceptable). This is why whenever I'm handed government stats to prove that male on female rape is the majority I just sigh because the ridiculously confounding variable here is that male rape is far less likely to be reported than female rape.

I too would like to see the data set from which the 'women earn 78 cents to every dollar a man earns' stat emanates. Recently we've had an 'EU commission for equality' advertising scheme in Britain touting this claim, but I've never actually seen a data set supporting it. Indeed, when Dr Warren Farrell took a look at the US data set he found that single, highly experienced women out-earned single, highly experienced men. Here's the lecture [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb_6v-JQ13Q].

I don't really want to get into some massive argument about all this. Back when I was a teen this stuff really, really annoyed me. I used to write to my member of parliament about these issues and be fobbed off with a 'we don't give a fuck about male rights' response, but I'm more at peace with all this now. The obvious injustice still angers me, but I've come to terms with the fact that until the last vociferous 'I'm still living in the 70s' feminist is dead this nonsense won't die.