Feminism: has it gone to far?

[Estocavio]

snip

Paid less? Mind putting up some studies' results to back up your claim? Because I haven't really heard anything like that.

Its just a preconceptive assumption, probably told to this person by a feminist. Again, check the unemployment rates and note how many women ARENT unemployed.

 

[Blind Sight]

snip

Paid less? Mind putting up some studies' results to back up your claim? Because I haven't really heard anything like that.

Not a problem, always willing to provide sources:

http://www.boston.com/news/health/blog/2010/03/equally_qualifi.html

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/womenspay.htm (this one's a little older, from 2002)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1983185,00.html

Best quote: "Perhaps the most compelling ? and potentially damning ? data of all to suggest that gender has an influence comes from a 2008 study in which University of Chicago sociologist Kristen Schilt and NYU economist Matthew Wiswall examined the wage trajectories of people who underwent a sex change. Their results: even when controlling for factors like education, men who transitioned to women earned, on average, 32% less after the surgery. Women who became men, on the other hand, earned 1.5% more."

Also, no, it's not an assumption, it's documented fact. Bear in mind that women also on average get higher raises then men though.

 

[Wait...What]

Many men are worried that feminism will relinquish their control over women - well, tough beans - you have no right to control women. No one has the right to control anyone.

*snip*

I would like to take a minute to point out that this isn't the case, most liberal leaning men are all for feminism, just not the trod on my balls for having the AUDACITY to have a penis while talking to you.

However the main problem we men seem to see here with feminism is that quite a few self identified 'Feminist' women want to be more than equal.

ie - see the door holding comlaints, we get bitched at either way.

Violence against women, by men, is still a problem - again, look at the statistics the UN publishes. Violence against men by women is also bad, but it's not nearly as big a problem. It's actually an incredibly rare thing. So that is why people focus on improving the rights of women, because for millennia they have been on the short end of the deal.

Also. Theres evidence that men are physically abused almost as much. In most cases its more emotional abuse. An example would be that psychotic girlfriend in The Hangover. It happens a lot and the man is called a pussy if he admits to it, but its still abuse.

It's not a rare thing, trust me on this.

---
Now for my own stuffs

In my own opinion not much more needs to be done to improve womens standings. Fully equal pay for work needs to be realised and maybe a week or two more leave days for giving birth.

The splitting of sports teams and such is an obvious neccesity. Men would destroy most women in contact sports and in general do things a lot... rougher. Tennis for instance. Nadal hits the ball a LOT faster and harder than serena williams.

Its the feminism that advocates the castrating of men, called consenual sex between a man and a prostitute 'rape' even if she's a high class call girl maybe doing one john a week for 10 grand that gets me pissed off. Sure prostitution is wrong if shes forced into it or has no other choice but christ...

I've noticed I'm rambling

tldr - Its almost there in terms of equality. Stop being white knights about abuse it goes both ways. Stop trying to be more than equal feminazis.

Kudos, you summed up my entire thoughts on the matter and now i no longer need to take half an hour attempting to articulate it

 

[CouchCommando]

I've got no problem with equality, as for the tag "feminist" it can be grabbed by practically any 'tard who happens to be female, so I really haven't got much to say on the subject.

 

[kioko9959]

Feminists usually don't annoy me too much, though i have had the displeasure of reading about 7 articles on them trying there little hearts out to ban rapelay, the infamous game about picking your victims age and then sexual assaulting them in various manners, despite the fact that the makers had already taken the game of the shelves, and then all they did was get a bunch of there members to send emails in a template the distributed amongst themselves to Japanese politician. They just complain way too much

 

[Blind Sight]

snip

Not gonna argue statistics.

It's still a good deal for them, though - live longer, get paid a little less.

The assumption thing at the bottom was for that other guy who quoted you, I can't stand it when people who hate diehard feminists completely ignore social and economic factors that actually harm women because they see it as giving into the crazed, man-hating women.

 

[Aeriath]

It will never go far enough. There will always be misogyny and I laugh at those who say that women are 'equal' in the western world. I am fucking proud to be a feminist.

Having passion for what you believe in is great, but the statement "It will never go far enough" puts this firmly into the category of fanaticism. Let's hope the rest of this goes on a bit less aggressively.

Being a feminist means to me is that maybe one day women will make as much money as men

There is a box marked Feminism, inside it are many cans of worms. I have yet to open the can of worms marked as "Employment and Pay", but a look at the label shows that the pay gap is alive and well and that the OECD thinks that 25% of women and 6% of men working part time is a problem. You seem educated on the subject, so I'll ask, why is the difference in part time work a problem and is the how is the pay gap calculated?

that they will have more chances of being employed into high positions

I agree with this, as long as you don't support using the steaming pile of shit that is gender quotas.

that violence against women will stop being brushed aside

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with your assesment of the situation here. Men who hit women are rightly demonized. The social stigma attached to it even shows up in courts, where a man who beats a women will receive a longer sentence than a woman who beats a man.

that we will stop living in a rape culture

What? Maybe if you are one of these radical people who believe male-female intercourse is rape, I really can't see any reason you'd say this otherwise.

that we will stop being seen as sex objects or baby making machines

Yes, I agree with this. However, what constitutes being a sex object is sometimes debatable and some women enjoy it, so it's a bit of a grey area.

that men will stop thinking themselves better than us.

Might come around the same time that feminists stop generalizing. [http://instantrimshot.com/]

 

[Hallow'sEve]

come to Australia, where men are second class citizens. I hear New Zealand has it worse though. And English women are all Hitler from what I can tell, though that's not a legal equality thing, that's just a land of screwed up personalities. I get the feeling that a lot of husband-beating goes on over there.

I live in Australia and I know what you mean. It really is crazy.

So I don't have a good chance of getting in a kangaroo pouch if I went down under? Damn, and Australia was on my list for study abroad places too....

 

[bak00777]

Feminism hasn't existed since the 80s.

Not True Feminism anyway, now its about female Superiority, instead of equality.

I think this is true

 

[RootbeerJello]

This is obviusly not a fair example, but I'm pretty sure it happened and it's sure as hell too far, so I'll say it anyway. I don't know the name, but some feminist was quoted as saying "porn is rape".

 

[Estocavio]

snip

Paid less? Mind putting up some studies' results to back up your claim? Because I haven't really heard anything like that.

Not a problem, always willing to provide sources:

http://www.boston.com/news/health/blog/2010/03/equally_qualifi.html

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/womenspay.htm (this one's a little older, from 2002)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1983185,00.html

Best quote: "Perhaps the most compelling ? and potentially damning ? data of all to suggest that gender has an influence comes from a 2008 study in which University of Chicago sociologist Kristen Schilt and NYU economist Matthew Wiswall examined the wage trajectories of people who underwent a sex change. Their results: even when controlling for factors like education, men who transitioned to women earned, on average, 32% less after the surgery. Women who became men, on the other hand, earned 1.5% more."

Also, no, it's not an assumption, it's documented fact. Bear in mind that women also on average get higher raises then men though.

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&q=women+are+paid+less+than+men&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=4ea4a308ac696def
Behold, how to get sources in favor of women! (I am NOT contradicting you, upon rereading that it sounded like a criticism. The point is, if you google the words "Man" "Women" and "Paid" you get that.
And yes, raises are higher, but more noteworthy is again the unemployment rate.

I know i may sound slightly vague, but then again, thats more the most prolific problem with discussions like this: Phrase one thing in a way that isnt thought out like no other, and your opening yourself up to being called a misogynist. It may not be an assumption as suggested, but the lack of anyone even trying to find any evidence to the contrary is suspicious in itself.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

I think there still needs some work done, for example there is still a pay gap in many professions where there is no difference between a man or a woman, but some do go too far. They seem to want men to go through what women went through before any of us were born. It didn't even happen to them. I can understand why many women are angry, I'm sure I would be as well, but they need to pick their battles, and not lash out at everythig they see as an injustice

 

[CardinalPiggles]

personally i dont think i am sexist, i would say for example hold a door open for a women or a man, by the way im not gay or bi if thats what ur thinking. i am however realistic, if i see a scrawny women trying to lift heavy objects, like at work when im working in the kitchen and i see a barmaid struggling to carry something to the bin i will offer to help, if she says no then i would say fair enough and not offer to help her with similar things in future.

 

[KoSTHB]

the justices system favors women, it doesn't matter if women is a drugged out she'll still get the kids in a custody case, or if you call rape on a man even if its a lie it will destroy the man reputation and prevent him getting jobs. i've seen these thing happen in my life so if women are equal then those thing would have to go as well.

 

[Harrowdown]

I've never liked this arguement. Sure, there's some oversensitivity and extremism within the feminist movement, but there's black supremacy movements too. Does that mean that black rights have "gone too far"? Truth is, there's still work to be done by feminists. Just because the law is supposed to guarantee equality, it doesn't mean that that's what they get. It's still tough for women to get through the glass ceiling, as they call it, and violent and sexual crime is targeted almost exclusively at women. Part of the problem for that latter point is simply down to men being naturally aggressive, but the perception as women as sexually and physically inferior certainly contributes to the problem.

 

[Sgt Doom]

It will never go far enough. There will always be misogyny and I laugh at those who say that women are 'equal' in the western world. I am fucking proud to be a feminist.

Being a feminist means to me is that maybe one day women will make as much money as men, that they will have more chances of being employed into high positions, that violence against women will stop being brushed aside, that we will stop living in a rape culture, that we will stop being seen as sex objects or baby making machines and that men will stop thinking themselves better than us.

Bloody hell, what kind of men have you encountered?
I can't name a single one of my mates, or indeed any male I know, who thinks anything like that.

That's because you're a man as well. Either you don't realize the sexism or you have the most angelic group of friends known to mankind. I've known police men who told a domestic abuse victim that she was making a mess out of nothing, I've been catcalled in the streets by strangers and groped in clubs by guys who thought it wasn't a big deal and I've had male teachers not hiding very well that fact they they largely favored the male side of the class. That's without counting all the various stupid shit that I've heard men say in my everyday life. Don't act so surprised because it happens a hell of a lot.

That kind of thing is practically unheard of here in Finland, it's just bizarre to me that such stuff still happens on a regular basis in Western nations.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

also id like to say thankyou stinkychops u said it very well, men are being judged by the worst kind of men in history or in the newspapers, hitlers and rapists for example, but id like to remind you of the fact that there is decency in men.

if anyone has seen russell howards good news, you will know. a boy of about 18 helped bring down a rapist by being an eye witness in court, he then recieved reward money for his bravery and efforts, and not only did he do all this for the victim, HE ALSO GAVE ALL HIS REWARD MONEY TO THE RAPE VICTIM.

if u think all men are pricks then fuck off.

 

[Doctor Insanovic]

come to Australia, where men are second class citizens. I hear New Zealand has it worse though. And English women are all Hitler from what I can tell, though that's not a legal equality thing, that's just a land of screwed up personalities. I get the feeling that a lot of husband-beating goes on over there.

interestingly enough, i hear tell of australian women being beaten by their husbands regularly.

oh I don't doubt that at all. ever heard of the term "bogan"? look it up, that's us in a nutshell.

 

[Blind Sight]

snip

Paid less? Mind putting up some studies' results to back up your claim? Because I haven't really heard anything like that.

Not a problem, always willing to provide sources:

http://www.boston.com/news/health/blog/2010/03/equally_qualifi.html

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/womenspay.htm (this one's a little older, from 2002)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1983185,00.html

Best quote: "Perhaps the most compelling ? and potentially damning ? data of all to suggest that gender has an influence comes from a 2008 study in which University of Chicago sociologist Kristen Schilt and NYU economist Matthew Wiswall examined the wage trajectories of people who underwent a sex change. Their results: even when controlling for factors like education, men who transitioned to women earned, on average, 32% less after the surgery. Women who became men, on the other hand, earned 1.5% more."

Also, no, it's not an assumption, it's documented fact. Bear in mind that women also on average get higher raises then men though.

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&q=women+are+paid+less+than+men&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=4ea4a308ac696def
Behold, how to get sources in favor of women! (I am NOT contradicting you, upon rereading that it sounded like a criticism. The point is, if you google the words "Man" "Women" and "Paid" you get that.
And yes, raises are higher, but more noteworthy is again the unemployment rate.

I know i may sound slightly vague, but then again, thats more the most prolific problem with discussions like this: Phrase one thing in a way that isnt thought out like no other, and your opening yourself up to being called a misogynist. It may not be an assumption as suggested, but the lack of anyone even trying to find any evidence to the contrary is suspicious in itself.

Fair enough, I was somewhat lazy with my sources simply because most of my information comes from JSTOR, an online site that publishes academic journals. I'm pretty sure you need a sign-in profile to view the majority of the information, but I'll post'em anyway (wall of text, I apologize).

http://www.jstor.org/pss/4317032?searchUrl=%2Faction%2FdoAdvancedResults%3Fhp%3D25%26la%3D%26wc%3Don%26acc%3Doff%26gw%3Djtx%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26q0%3Dwomen%2Bpaid%2Bless%2Bthen%2Bmen%26f0%3Dall%26c0%3D%26sd%3D%26ed%3D%26jo%3D%26dc%3DEconomics%26dc%3DFeminist%2B%2526amp%253B%2BWomen%2527s%2BStudies%26si%3D26%26jtxsi%3D26

http://www.jstor.org/pss/4316943?searchUrl=%2Faction%2FdoAdvancedResults%3Fhp%3D25%26la%3D%26wc%3Don%26acc%3Doff%26gw%3Djtx%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26q0%3Dmen%2Bpaid%2Bbetter%2Bthen%2Bwomen%26f0%3Dall%26c0%3D%26sd%3D%26ed%3D%26jo%3D%26dc%3DEconomics%26dc%3DFeminist%2B%2526amp%253B%2BWomen%2527s%2BStudies%26si%3D51%26jtxsi%3D51

http://www.jstor.org/pss/189696?searchUrl=%2Faction%2FdoAdvancedResults%3Fhp%3D25%26la%3D%26wc%3Don%26acc%3Doff%26gw%3Djtx%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26q0%3Dmen%2Bpaid%2Bbetter%2Bthen%2Bwomen%26f0%3Dall%26c0%3D%26sd%3D%26ed%3D%26jo%3D%26dc%3DEconomics%26dc%3DFeminist%2B%2526amp%253B%2BWomen%2527s%2BStudies%26si%3D76%26jtxsi%3D76

Also, although employment is higher for upper class women, there is still a huge issue with lower-class women and unemployment, due to their lack of education: http://www.jstor.org/pss/4149447?searchUrl=%2Faction%2FdoAdvancedSearch%3Fq0%3Dwomen%2Bpaid%2Bless%2Bthen%2Bmen%26f0%3Dall%26c1%3DAND%26q1%3D%26f1%3Dall%26wc%3Don%26Search%3DSearch%26sd%3D%26ed%3D%26la%3D%26jo%3D%26dc.Economics%3DEconomics%26dc.Feminist%2526amp%253BWomensStudies%3DFeminist%2B%2526amp%253B%2BWomen%2527s%2BStudies

 

[Canadamus Prime]

When they start demanding we change the titles of positions like alderman just because they have the word 'man' in them, then yes they have gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far. I'm all for equality for women, but when you start wanting us to rewrite the entire English language, that's when I say STFU *****!