Feminist Kickstarter Project gets Harassed/Threatened

[Pearwood]

If anyone wonders why mainstream developers don't take the risk of doing anything even slightly controversial this is it. Or in other words this is quite literally why we can't have nice things.

Also - this shit was posted on the Escapist? Shame on whoever posted it and any mod who saw it without deleting it. If there's no rule against posting a level of trolling that verges on psychotic stalking there needs to be.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

I've seen some of their videos and I like them. It does what a lot of Escapist and former Escapist videos do; it looks at a problem from an objective point of view and intelligently dissects the issue, rather than just ranting about how it is wrong. I guess some people (not just guys) can't really stomach the fact that some tropes/stereotypes in the media are just the norm and anyone who disagrees is making a fuss over nothing.

 

[wetnap]

If anyone wonders why mainstream developers don't take the risk of doing anything even slightly controversial this is it. Or in other words this is quite literally why we can't have nice things.

Also - this shit was posted on the Escapist? Shame on whoever posted it and any mod who saw it without deleting it. If there's no rule against posting a level of trolling that verges on psychotic stalking there needs to be.

Sorry the ultra violence in games is not controversial?

Is game of thrones controversial?
you can watch bro sis doin the dirty...


What is controversial now?

developers don't make games for an audience that doesn't exist. Just as feminists who know that talk is cheap can't be bothered to actually invest in game studios or development to make games for the vast female audience they always claim is out there.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

The reality is that this particular Kickstarter is merely the latest salvo in an ongoing culture war that has been going on at least as long as the Penny Arcade Dickwolf incident of 2010, between online gaming aficionados and online presence of feminism.

Everyone remember the Dickwolves controversy, right? When a feminist, who might or might not have been a reader of the Penny Arcade comic, gathered together a mob of angry feminists, who might or might not have been gamers to any meaningful degree or readers of the PA comic for that matter either, and then attempted to dogpile Penny Arcade into submission under the weight of their complaints?

Only in turn to be buried under an avalanche of hate, bile and misogyny once the guys at Penny Arcade let their loyal readership know what was happening? How things swiftly disintegrated from there into a mutual cluster-fuck of pure spite?

Anita Sarkeesian is a grown adult and by precedent she knew exactly what she was getting into when she joined the feminist movement to first pacify and then gentrify whatever loosely confederated mass passes for gaming culture. She is a willing participant in an ideologically-driven cultural offensive on a popular art movement, so I'm not going to buy into the narrative that she is some rare delicate flower whose fragile sensibilities are being trampled upon by brutal trolls. But so far as the topic of death threats go, well this wouldn't be the first time that feminism, popular art and attempted murder reached a nexus point [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Warhol#Attempted_murder_.281968.29], would it?

 

[Ryotknife]

The reality is that this particular Kickstarter is merely the latest salvo in an ongoing culture war that has been going on at least as long as the Penny Arcade Dickwolf incident of 2010, between online gaming aficionados and online presence of feminism.

Everyone remember the Dickwolves controversy, right? When a feminist, who might or might not have been a reader of the Penny Arcade comic, gathered together a mob of angry feminists, who might or might not have been gamers to any meaningful degree or readers of the PA comic for that matter either, and then attempted to dogpile Penny Arcade into submission under the weight of their complaints?

Only in turn to be buried under an avalanche of hate, bile and misogyny once the guys at Penny Arcade let their loyal readership know what was happening? How things swiftly disintegrated from there into a mutual cluster-fuck of pure spite?

Anita Sarkeesian is a grown adult and by precedent she knew exactly what she was getting into when she joined the feminist movement to first pacify and then gentrify whatever loosely confederated mass passes for gaming culture. She is a willing participant in an ideologically-driven cultural offensive on a popular art movement, so I'm not going to buy into the narrative that she is some rare delicate flower whose fragile sensibilities are being trampled upon by brutal trolls. But so far as the topic of death threats go, well this wouldn't be the first time that feminism, popular art and attempted murder reached a nexus point [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Warhol#Attempted_murder_.281968.29], would it?

i actually had to look up that controversy. holy hell do that group who were against the dickwolf joke came across as the biggest group of A holes ive ever seen in my entire life. The whole situation could have been resolved pretty quickly at PA i would imagine if those people weren't smug and pretentious twats.

I could even understand where they are coming from, but if they approached me that way i would fight them purely out of spite of their character (or complete lack thereof)

 

[Kahunaburger]

The whole situation could have been resolved pretty quickly at PA i would imagine if those people weren't smug and pretentious twats.

I'm a little astounded that anyone can look at anything Penny Arcade-related and, among the parties involved, conclude that the non-Penny Arcade party is the "smug and pretentious" one. I mean, seriously, all it would have taken was an apology, but instead they opted to get weird and hostile about people having perfectly reasonable objections to their subject matter.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

The whole situation could have been resolved pretty quickly at PA i would imagine if those people weren't smug and pretentious twats.

I'm a little astounded that anyone can look at anything Penny Arcade-related and, among the parties involved, conclude that the non-Penny Arcade party is the "smug and pretentious" one. I mean, seriously, all it would have taken was an apology, but instead they opted to get weird and hostile about people having perfectly reasonable objections to their subject matter.

Out of curiousity Kahunaburger, where exactly do you stand on the whole Israeli/Palestinian issue? I'm not trying to derail the thread, but please by all means humour me with a response.

 

[Kahunaburger]

The whole situation could have been resolved pretty quickly at PA i would imagine if those people weren't smug and pretentious twats.

I'm a little astounded that anyone can look at anything Penny Arcade-related and, among the parties involved, conclude that the non-Penny Arcade party is the "smug and pretentious" one. I mean, seriously, all it would have taken was an apology, but instead they opted to get weird and hostile about people having perfectly reasonable objections to their subject matter.

Out of curiousity Kahunaburger, where exactly do you stand on the whole Israeli/Palestinian issue? I'm not trying to derail the thread, but please by all means humour me with a response.

Pretty much my stance on every inter-ethnic conflict. Generations of hate are not an easy issue to solve, there should be a more concerted effort at mediation (and, from Israel and Palestine, at not alienating mediators), and the international community shouldn't be using this particular inter-ethnic conflict as a staging ground for mostly unrelated international conflicts. I'm not entirely sure why you think this is relevant, though.

 

[Vault101]

I swear this issue is more hot than Mass Effect 3

well....its at least good to know people care about sexism I guess?

 

[WindKnight]

On a lighter note, what percentage of the people posting stuff like this are single against their own will, I wonder?

What people fail to realize is that their future employers and schools can look up internet history as part of a background check.

"Hm. It says here that when you were fourteen, you threatened to rape and murder a youtube video blogger.
...Can you explain to us why we should bother acknowledging your continued existence ever again?"

'You know, I bet by the time 2030 comes around, we'll be intimately familiar with our newly elected presidents genitals thanks to a youthful facebook post.' - Nash, 'What The F*** Is Wrong With You?'

 

[Pearwood]

developers don't make games for an audience that doesn't exist. Just as feminists who know that talk is cheap can't be bothered to actually invest in game studios or development to make games for the vast female audience they always claim is out there.

Doesn't the fact that this exists say they are willing to invest?

 

[Paradoxrifts]

I'm not entirely sure why you think this is relevant, though.

Ah, but it is! Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have at separate times in their intrinsically linked modern history exploited the perception that they're victims for their own gain. Like the fairy tale goblin Rumpelstiltskin who spun common straw into gold, to differing degrees of success they've both transformed human misery into political clout. And when nations, when people, when individuals do this, a strange thing occurs in that I stop feeling sorry for them. Completely.

You see I feel that it is one thing to be a victim of a terrible crime. But it is quite another, entirely different thing, for a person to lash together a cultural siege engine out of their suffering and drive it towards random people who only have the most tenuous and loosest of connections with the source of your angst in the first place. And then when their act of unwarranted aggression disintegrates around them, when the backlash is too hot and fierce, fall back again on the fact that they're a victim of a terrible crime in order to mitigate damage and garner sympathetic support.

This is why when I examined the non-Penny Arcade parties involved in the Dickwolves incident, all I really saw was yet another ad-hoc collection of online slackivists protesting the sort of pointless shit that really can only be taken seriously as an object of protest on the internet.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Ah, but it is! Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have at separate times in their intrinsically linked modern history exploited the perception that they're victims for their own gain. Like the fairy tale goblin Rumpelstiltskin who spun common straw into gold, to differing degrees of success they've both transformed human misery into political clout. And when nations, when people, when individuals do this, a strange thing occurs in that I stop feeling sorry for them. Completely.

You see I feel that it is one thing to be a victim of a terrible crime. But it is quite another, entirely different thing, for a person to lash together a cultural siege engine out of their suffering and drive it towards random people who only have the most tenuous and loosest of connections with the source of your angst in the first place. And then when their act of unwarranted aggression disintegrates around them, when the backlash is too hot and fierce, fall back again on the fact that they're a victim of a terrible crime in order to mitigate damage and garner sympathetic support.

I get the impression that you have a tendency to over-systematize a la our friend EternalNothingness. Who, for instance, are the suicide bombers in your analogy? Who is Egypt? What constitutes "aggression?" What are the Camp David Accords?

All that happened IRL in the Penny Arcade fiasco was that people got reasonably upset with PA for using a triggering topic as a throw-away gag and PA became very hostile and defensive about it, then responded with a string of dick moves that were (rightfully) called out by the community as a whole. PA (rightfully) lost fans and some speakers at PAX, then issued a non-apology. I have no idea why some of their fans use such apocalyptic rhetoric to describe what essentially amounted to a learning experience for two man-children.

 

[twohundredpercent]

So like the trolling is unfunny and offends you so we have to take this shit seriously and whine about sexism and injustice on forums to spread "awareness"? Whatever bro.

 

[Ryotknife]

The whole situation could have been resolved pretty quickly at PA i would imagine if those people weren't smug and pretentious twats.

I'm a little astounded that anyone can look at anything Penny Arcade-related and, among the parties involved, conclude that the non-Penny Arcade party is the "smug and pretentious" one. I mean, seriously, all it would have taken was an apology, but instead they opted to get weird and hostile about people having perfectly reasonable objections to their subject matter.

I dont know many smug and pretentious people who constantly belittle themselves and downplay their accomplishments. in fact, that sounds like the opposite of smug and pretentious...huh.

if all the other party wanted was an apology, that is one thing. quite honestly they probably would have gotten it without much fuss. But that is not all they wanted. they wanted PA to pretty much admit that they are scum, sexist, pigs who dont deserve to breathe while exclaiming how brilliant and enlightened the other party is for deigning to take the time to speak to the "peasantry" of PA.

Now, im the kind of guy where if you ask me nicely, ill bend over backwards to help you. PA is probably the same way. If you come at me with an attitude, especially if its undeserved (or i think it is), prepare for a fight. and hell, the whole issue revolve around a joke that wasnt even about rape, in fact it was an extremely minor part of the whole comic. I didnt even remember that the comic mentioned rape (in passing) until i looked up the controversy. I thought it was over something they did during a panel in PAX or something.

 

[Ryotknife]

I swear this issue is more hot than Mass Effect 3

well....its at least good to know people care about sexism I guess?

i love your image.

 

[Kahunaburger]

if all the other party wanted was an apology, that is one thing. quite honestly they probably would have gotten it without much fuss.

Uh, they did want exactly that. Penny Arcade responded in various [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/] petulant [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/] ways, [http://penny-arcade.com/2010/08/13] none of which constituted much of an actual apology.

 

[Ryotknife]

if all the other party wanted was an apology, that is one thing. quite honestly they probably would have gotten it without much fuss.

Uh, they did want exactly that. Penny Arcade responded in various [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/] petulant [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/] ways, [http://penny-arcade.com/2010/08/13] none of which constituted much of an actual apology.

except they didnt want an apology, or just an apology. They wanted PA to prostrate before them. I would not apologize either to those poor excuses for human beings who have zero respect for anyone, I would treat them in the exact same fashion as they treat everyone else.

I have no dog in this fight as I didnt even know about this controversy until two years after the fact. but to say that the people at PA are smug and pretentious is laughable. They didnt want to do PATV because they were worried they would look like douchebags and in fact had to be convinced to do it. They constantly belittle themselves and distance their role in creating things like PAX and Childs play.

 

[Kahunaburger]

if all the other party wanted was an apology, that is one thing. quite honestly they probably would have gotten it without much fuss.

Uh, they did want exactly that. Penny Arcade responded in various [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/] petulant [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/] ways, [http://penny-arcade.com/2010/08/13] none of which constituted much of an actual apology.

except they didnt want an apology, or just an apology.[citation needed] They wanted PA to bow down before them.[citation needed] I would not apologize either to those poor excuses for human beings who have zero respect for anyone, I would treat them in the exact same fashion as they treat everyone else.

Do you have evidence for this extraordinary claim that the people who were asking for an apology were secretly asking Penny Arcade to "bow down before them?"

 

[Ryotknife]

if all the other party wanted was an apology, that is one thing. quite honestly they probably would have gotten it without much fuss.

Uh, they did want exactly that. Penny Arcade responded in various [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/] petulant [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/8/13/] ways, [http://penny-arcade.com/2010/08/13] none of which constituted much of an actual apology.

except they didnt want an apology, or just an apology.[citation needed] They wanted PA to bow down before them.[citation needed] I would not apologize either to those poor excuses for human beings who have zero respect for anyone, I would treat them in the exact same fashion as they treat everyone else.

Do you have evidence for this extraordinary claim that the people who were asking for an apology were secretly asking Penny Arcade to "bow down before them?"

http://superopinionated.com/2010/10/19/here-is-a-shirt-dickwolves-survivors-guild/

The person started off rather reasonable. people make mistakes.

then you see the options and you see the persons complete utter disregard for basic human decency. Even better some of those people against the dickwolf joke then started to make their own dickwolf shirts for their own benefit, hypocrisy at its finest!