Feminist Kickstarter Project gets Harassed/Threatened
- Thread starter BloatedGuppy
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I just wanted to second this. Nobosy on this site seems to ever think in any way besides "that is so horrible and that is bad". Rarely have I seen people talk about solutions, or causes or anything else besides that what happened was bad and then move on. At least Smash said something.Freezy_Breezy said:
What do I think sends huge hate mobs off like this? Well I have a story. I'm sure many of you can relate to it in some way, whether that be directly or from hearing other similar stories. So when I was littler, about Fourth Grade all the kids ran around calling each other faggots and cunts. Obviously homophobic and partially sexist but plenty of us didn't even know or could conceive of the concept of sexuality or gender discrimination. We had simply picked up the language when we were little and used it for the sole reason we knew they were bad words. Then of course we grew up and realised that we couldn't run around calling people faggotcunts anymore but most people I know fought it. Despite the obvious hate behind the words most arguments are merely "but that wasn't the context we were using them in" etc. And to be fair it wasn't, I doubt any of us had purposely homophobic or sexist intentions, though that didn't make it any more acceptable. The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't the fact that you're trying to make people less bigoted that sets them off, rather that you're trying to change them at all. people appreciate a status quote, and it's uncomfortable to get rid of it when it's been around for so long.
Considering that viewpoint (not caring and why bother) is relevant to absolutely every topic I can conceivable imagine, it's hard to respect it as anything other then posting for the sake of posting. If you fall into that mindset, how about not posting ever, since what's the point in caring if posting doesn't amount to anything substantial.Freezy_Breezy said:
Its also NOT critical analyses.
Critical: inclined to find fault or to judge with severity (He judges with severity a subject not on discussion)
Analyse: Detailed examination of the elements or structure of something, typically as a basis for discussion or interpretation. (if anything he complete ignores the elements of the subject and decides they are beneath him, starting his own discussion).
At the very most he offers a cursory opinion on the subject, before he starts to target a different aspect of the post (the Kickstarter at the centre of this mess). Only to be dragged back into the discussion at hand by people who were not fond of his fleeting interest in the subject.
As for not caring?
Ignoring his post just a above mine (which is just above yours) where he states the subject DOES get to him but because he can't do anything why should he bother, he was fairly invested on railing on the Kickstarter project, criticising it and its goals (and the Authors intents) based off of nothing BUT the kickstarter page, despite it not being relative to the topic at hand (topic was about the assholes spreading unintentionally ironic sexist abuse and deliberately trying sabotage her project. Also the RPS link the OP posted).
So while you might be able to say you don't care, he certainly does... just that he doesn't think he can do anything... oh and also doesn't like people who just vent their frustration apparently.
Its a predictable response to a predictable rant. She choose to be a feminist link bait troll, that is what she is, and it is a very successful model, look at jezebel. Take outrageous stances, cry hysteria, generate rage, benefit from rage, as no publicity is bad publicity.
You could expect the same if some loser guy decided to do some socialogical study/attack on twilight as being filled with sexism against men.
You could expect the same if some loser guy decided to do some socialogical study/attack on twilight as being filled with sexism against men.
jon4laker's made 12 VIDEOS on YouTube comparing Xbox360 vs PS3, and many went 10+ mins. HIS WORK in breaking down the hardware was insightful.
She's going to cover two decades of games? They encompass nearly every artistic genre.
This is like covering 'books' (in general) for the last fifteen years.
Will she cover female characters from Japanese games? How about the US? UK? Western vs Eastern? RPG vs FPS? MMO's?
THIS IS A WORLDWIDE MEDIUM OF ENTERTAINMENT.
She's going to cover two decades of games? They encompass nearly every artistic genre.
This is like covering 'books' (in general) for the last fifteen years.
Will she cover female characters from Japanese games? How about the US? UK? Western vs Eastern? RPG vs FPS? MMO's?
THIS IS A WORLDWIDE MEDIUM OF ENTERTAINMENT.
Pfft. I suggested killing the guilty parties and you SCOFFED and told me I was being unreasonable.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Unreasonable!
ME!
Know what concerns me? That people keep attributing misogynistic behavior to video gamers like we have a monopoly on it. It is hardly something unique to the gaming culture, in fact, I'd say it's is FAR more prevalent a theme in the vast majority of national cultures, especially major religious cultures, than in video games.
Beyond that, why the hell are we blaming gaming culture for this? Of the millions of people who play video games, a few thousand act like pigs, and yet we all get blamed for it? Not to mention I'd bet good money that the vast majority of the people who are sending her threats don't play games at all, they're too busy building bombs in their shacks and prepping for the fall of civilization cause all the gays and women aren't staying in the closet/kitchen like God wanted them to.
Beyond that, why the hell are we blaming gaming culture for this? Of the millions of people who play video games, a few thousand act like pigs, and yet we all get blamed for it? Not to mention I'd bet good money that the vast majority of the people who are sending her threats don't play games at all, they're too busy building bombs in their shacks and prepping for the fall of civilization cause all the gays and women aren't staying in the closet/kitchen like God wanted them to.
I shouldn't even bother replying to an argument as shallow as this...wetnap said:
But I get the impression you haven't watched anything of hers.
Her Kickstarter request video was noticeably modeled after her other videos. Same tone of voice and all. It was all done in the same style... She simply wants it to look nicer.
(Again, in my opinion, she doesn't need 100,000 dollars to do this... But I find the goal she's going for perfectly acceptable).
She's not trolling >_>
"Despite the obvious hate behind the words most arguments are merely "but that wasn't the context we were using them in" etc. And to be fair it wasn't, I doubt any of us had purposely homophobic or sexist intentions, though that didn't make it any more acceptable."him over there said:
You know, you might be right... I wonder if I apply this reasoning to any other potential daily confrontation, would it makes things better?
Running down a street and its not an emergency I'm just a bit impatient. I bump into someone, knocking them down. I didn't mean to knock them down, the running was intended to get me somewhere faster not to bowl over passer-bys. I don't bother apologising or help them out as obviously I didn't do anything wrong, they're just being unreasonable when they give me dirty looks and shout after me calling be an ignorant brute. I also don't slow down as the well being of everyone around me is not my responsibility.
Wow, the release of that burden makes me feel so much better.
So I just broke a window after kicking a ball. I was kicking it off a wall and I didn't mean for it to go through the window. Because obviously I didn't mean it, I won't tell the owners of the damaged window, apologise about it and offer to pay it off in some way or form. Whats more, I won't take a break from kicking the ball around (don't ask how I got it back) or kick it an area less susceptible to damage, as the property around me isn't my responsibility.
That certainly makes me feel better, especially the fact I don't have the angry person who owns the window.
So I was chatting with my friends when, in jest, I said something along the lines of "your mom has aids" to one of them. Everything went awkwardly silent, until another one of the group came over and planted his fist in my Face. Whats his problem? So what if his sister has HIV, I obviously didn't mean offend him, it was obviously a crude joke that wasn't completely out of nowhere, directed at the other friend who doesn't have a terminally ill family member. I didn't deserve to have my nose rearranged because he takes such things to heart. I also won't keep check of what I say, because other peoples feelings are not my responsibility.
Wait... wait a minute! This makes me sound like an asshole.
Did you thoroughly read my post? I specifically said that type of argument didn't fly, I even said that that didn't make it any more acceptable. It was merely what people immediately jumped to when confronted with their problematic language. My point was that people didn't want to keep the ability to call each other faggots or cunts because they're homophobic or sexist but rather because people hate having the status quote disrupted.Ragsnstitches said:
I think he's suggesting that's not a particularly interesting or sympathetic defense.him over there said:
Oh, that wasn't a defense so much as me trying to establish a cause for these fucking online hate mobs. I wasn't saying that to defend them, rather explain them.BloatedGuppy said:
*raises hand?*
Mostly keeping on the down-low. There's no talking to any of these people anyway. Fun fact I've discovered about the internet: I have not ONCE ever seen ANYONE say, "You know what? You're right."
It's always like "Fair point, but..." At best.
Fair point, but people have a hard time reaching consensus, especially when you take opinion polarization into account.Zydrate said:
I must say, I disapprove of her video in which she had a segment about Legos. She stated that the male firemen would come to put out the fire. Well, yes. I'd like to see YOU (referring to her) lift a grown man out of a burning building. Granted, some women can. But it's just not in the cards for every woman.
In the same way, there are also some male bakers. But the fact that one gender dominates a role is to be expected. It just can't be that there is an equal amount of male and females in every career. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's alright for a career or indeed a game to have a 10-man crew be 9 men and 1 woman, but...
EDIT: Why does she need money, exactly? I know she's funding a series, but what is the money going to do for her?
In the same way, there are also some male bakers. But the fact that one gender dominates a role is to be expected. It just can't be that there is an equal amount of male and females in every career. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's alright for a career or indeed a game to have a 10-man crew be 9 men and 1 woman, but...
EDIT: Why does she need money, exactly? I know she's funding a series, but what is the money going to do for her?
Really? I found her Legoes videos to be some of the best she had. They were strangely even... She was merely asking for the more gender-neutral stuff.meepop said:
I have a Lego table and a small built base under siege... RIGHT BEHIND ME.
I like Legoes. But the stories I write about them are consistently violent because that's the only thing for sale. I'd love to have some non-pink Cafe's in my stories so my heroes can finally take a goddamn break.
I'm 23, by the way. I feel the need to note that >_>
1st off, that jab sailed right over me. Citation might be needed.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Okay, I'll bite. Let's discuss the topic at hand, but before we go into it, lets make sure we are at least on the same page and know what this topic is.
My view of the topic at hand (the one Bloatedguppy started): In the broadest sense this topic is about Sexism (Duh), in particular the kind we see on the internet. We can both generally agree that what was shown in the OP was both grossly offensive but completely typical. However, there is also a belligerent element particular to this topic (the kickstarter) that I find unbearable. There is a concious and co-ordinated (relatively) effort to sabotage her project. It will likely fail but that isn't the point...
This goes BEYOND stating opinions. This is an attempt at imposing ones will over another. These people don't like what they see and instead of boycotting or criticising the project, they attack her and the project directly. That is inexcusable.
Sexism be damned, my issue here is how malicious the whole thing is. I have my own view on sexism and I deal with in my own way, but this worries me and I can't just "let it slide". I also can't bury my head in the sand and hope it goes away. This is also NOT the only place I'm discussing this issue. I've chimed in on this topic elsewhere, including with real people who MIGHT actually be able to offer a solution or at least spread the word to people who might.
Okay? I think we can take the next step.
My reasoning for partaking in these discussions (and getting involved with this kickstarter) is that I don't believe wilful ignorance will makes things better but will actually get WORSE.
So my stance is this: Show no quarter. These people can't have a cushion of complacency and indifference to fall onto. Especially not on the scale we see here... I agree it will never go away, but the least we can do is make it abundantly clear that they aren't welcome and if possible, force them back into the recesses of the various offensive chan sites and its ilk, where they can fester and circle jerk over their painfully low wit until the end of days.
Yet you will be argumentative towards people who do? So you don't care about the issues facing the world/internet/forum whatever, just the people talking about them?SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Let me try that again... You try not to worry about things that you can't change BUT will argue the reasons for caring about things that people want to argue about?