FFVII wasn't that good

[Bluemagedood]

Final Fanatasy VII was a pretty damn good game. Not sure it deserves it's near legendary status. It's full of story breaking filler, some frustratingly bad world design (so hard to tell if that's a door or not without those stupid arrows...) and some unessisarily clunky controls in the mini-games. The world design and clunky controls issues can be kinda put aside because of the age of the game, but the sheer amount of filler that never really seems to contribute to the plot definatly breaks immersion.

If you're asking me is the game bad, never.
Is the game horribly and painfully dated for anyone who's not looking at it through nostalgia vision? Why yes, yes it is.

It's not about condeming it though. FFVII developed the JRPG genre and has inspired two generations of JRPGs so far. You can't write it off, but I know I'm never going to try and force it on a kid brother or something, because the world has moved on. Beyond a history lesson, FFVII has nothing to teach us that we wouldn't learn better from many of the last generation's RPGs and some of the current gens. Like OP, I'll cite FFX as an example.

 

[Lord Penney]

Now where is The Spoony One when you need him...

 

[xXDeMoNiCXx]

A) I don't see why people still think anyone cares about their opinion of FFVII, by this point everything that CAN be said about the game HAS been said and it's beyond redundant.

B)

Now I'm not saying it was bad. But honestly people the game wasn't the ultimate Final Fantasy like so many pretend it is,

This statement made me wanna laugh in your face. I'm sorry but that's pretty arrogant of you to say. I could just as easily say that "People like you sure like to pretend that FFVII wasn't the best JRPG ever." It's not up to you or anyone else to decide what opinion is right and what is wrong/pretend/make-believe/fantasy(no pun intended)/etc. FFVII along with any other game is only as good/bad as each individual thinks it is, if some people wanna think that a certain game is the best ever then that's their decision and no-one has the right to say they're wrong. They will anyway but it's just their own opinion and whether they like it or not it will never equal truth.

 

[Crimson_Dragoon]

How asinine is it to call someone stupid for liking something as subjective as video games are?

Because... almost nothing about FF7 is particularly well done. From visuals (ugly for its time) to characters (under developed and forgettable) to the basic cluster fuck that is the attempt at narrative at it.

Going to put this in for the sake of it, but Sephiroth is a failure-villain. Especially compared to THIS guy.

Spoiler

As guy in video said. "Crazy mother fucker. Destroys the world, half way through the game."

Wait, what? Now its plenty arguable about how well developed the characters are (they're hit and miss in my opinion). Hell, it took over 10 years and a spin-off game (Crisis Core) to give even Sephiroth any real characterization. But forgettable? I don't know, but somehow the idea that these are some of the most popular characters in video games (Cloud and Sephiroth seem to make it onto every greatest hero/villian list - whether they deserve or not isn't the point - and that you can't take 2 steps in a convention even today without running into a FF7 cosplay group) make me think that forgettable isn't the right word for it, no matter how much you want that to be true.

That being said, I'm right there with you that Kefka is the better villian. Gotta love that crazy-ass bastard.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

if some people wanna think that a certain game is the best ever then that's their decision and no-one has the right to say they're wrong. They will anyway but it's just their own opinion and whether they like it or not it will never equal truth.

Spoiler: /shrug.

Somewhat off topic; I personally don't like it whenever anyone touts anything as "best ____ ever". It's never a fact, it's only an opinion. It's what that person thinks. And that's fine.

But it's whenever anyone says that exact phrase about anything is when the arguments begin. If someone is implying something as "best", they usually do so to elevate it above simple taste or preference into a fact, thinking anyone who thinks differently is wrong.
If someone says Final Fantasy is the "best rpg ever". And I disagree and say that I thought Baldur's Gate was a better RPG, that person just might think I'm full of shit and start arguing because I don't agree with them.

I prefer people to use the term "most favorite". Of course this isn't exclusive to FF7 at all and happens all over the place (it's especially how most fanboy dipshits start fights over favorite/preferred consoles). I think of it here because of how many fans the game has and how "fans" in general think their devoting their fanhood to the indisputable "best ____ ever".

Actually, by 1997 standards, it was good. The backgrounds were stunning. The character models were okay. Sure they were blocky, but what of it? Even Oblivion has the problem of stunning backgrounds and ugly character models.

Does that make the graphics bad? No.
Does that make the game bad? No.

You are entitled to not like FFVII, but I don't expect someone who was a tadpole when the game was released to really understand its place and importance in video game history.

Eh I dunno. I played the game back in 97 when it came out and I thought it was an eyesore back then too.
From a purely visual standpoint, I thought Crash Bandicoot looked alot better. I played it again recently, and I think it still looks quite good.

I may have been young when it came out, but I went back and revisited every FF game throughout every generation as the years went by. Played it when I first got it, played it when I got my dreamcast, played it when I got my PS2, etc. And I still do not see what you are apparently seeing.
I just think it's an alright game, nothing too special, that I personally wouldn't regard so high. Sorry that's just the way I look at it.

 

[pyers]

I feel that a game is great if you can play it years after it was made and still find it really enjoyable. I tried to play Final fantasy 7 again reciently and I just couldnt do it. The graphics are horrid and (I felt) the plot line wasnt much better. Now I feel that the all time best final fantasy was the one before 7. Final fantasy 6 is absolutly amazing. I still play it every couple of years and just cant get enough.

 

[DigitalSushi]

The materia system is still one of the best in the series, allowing great flexibility and a large amount combinations to customize your character.

The Materia system in FF7 is/was a rather large gripe of mine, I'm in agreement with you that it was one of the best systems we've had, but it was too good... I know it sounds strange but hear me out

In FF7 you could customise it to your hearts content with any character so what would happen is that you had the possibility to nullify any weakness a character had, which essentially made all the characters stock models for the magic system, the only differentiator in terms of choosing a character for fights became "what's my favourite limit break?, guess I'll take Cloud and Vincent then!, Yuffie, BACK IN YOUR BOX!"

Because of the above the only fight I had trouble with was Ruby, Emerald would have been tough I guess but I came across it when I had Clouds lucky 7's (having 7777 hit points made him spam Omnislash IIRC).

 

[SomebodyNowhere]

I played FF7 for the first time a couple years ago and I enjoyed it. As far as it being over or underrated; I've come to the point in my life where I don't care if something is supposedly overrated or underrated by the masses, I'll form my own opinion based on how I feel about it and freely let others do the same regardless of if they don't agree with my views.

 

[Raddra]

Personally my favourite is and always has been Final Fantasy IX.

Spoiler

What I always like to ask is when people played their first Final Fantasy game, which one it was, and which one they played next.

For example, I played FFIX, loved it, then played FFVII, it was still a very popular game but this was practically before the internet so it hadn't quite reached the level sof fanboyish nerdom it now holds. In other words, I played FFVII about two years after it was actually released and found it to be fantastic in almost every way. Engaging storyline, interesting characters, gameplay for the time was still pretty unique, and the game felt epic.

A lot of people who criticise FF, especially pre FFX, I find usually played X first, sometime in the early 2000s, so it's no wonder they aren't going to find FFVII quite as good as it was hyped to be. It would be like comparing Metal Gear Solid 2 to MGS1, literally, because FFVII and MGS1 came out in the same year, and MGS2 and FFX came out within a year of each other. And despite the problems with MGS2's storyline, it's hard to deny that there had been significant improvements on the formula.

For another thing, a whole new console had been released between VII and X, along with all the greater limits of what could be achieved, the better understanding of how to tailor games. FFX should have been an upgrade in every single way.

Now, I still hate FFX with a burning passion. It was in fact the game that made me stop playing jRPGs, which had been basically what got me into console gaming in the first place, and I haven't really ever gone back. FFX was so bad it turned me off an entire genre of games, and I've tried others. Mostly when people ask why I just point them at the Spoony Experiment and say 'pretty much that.'

But that's my argument. FFVII hasn't aged well, but then you couldn't expect it to. It was one of the single greatest games ever released for the PlayStation 1, and much as I hate to draw the age card, there will be a lot of gamers decrying FFVII who were barely out of nappies when it was released. Estimating the general age of the Escapist to be around 18-19 means that the majority of people here couldn't have played FFVII around the time it was released, since you would only have been three to five, and maybe it's only nostalgia talking, but remembering the game as the groundbreaking masterpiece it was is important.

I agree with you so much, everything you said is spot on. In fact I've never friended someone for a single post before but I have to now!

I too see FF9 as my favorite but love FF7 untainted by internet whines or fanboys. FFX killed JRPG's for me though, its legacy has crippled everything that was good about those games as they try and emulate it for its sales, unaware its sales pretty much came from it being a flagship title.

 

[Rad Party God]

Okay, I'll give a few words on this, instead of simply dismiss it as yet another "Am I the only one who..." thread.

I liked FFVII and yet, I'm not a fan of the series. Yup, I said it, I liked it. Many people whom haven't played it yet may dismiss it as a cliche'd angsty teen story, and it may be, but at least it's "fun". Remember that word?.

As old as it may be, I still find the graphics quite charming, the battle system is completely functional and the game has a lot of funny moments and not just lots and lots of melodrama.

So yeah, haters gonna hate. And no, Sephirot is not the shit, he's an angsty prick.

 

[Axelhander]

Oh the ol' "opinion" card, played by the overly defensive when their favorite thing is attacked.

FF7 is poorly written and monstrously contrived.

EDIT - Eye phail att grammer and speling..

 

[Saarai-fan]

Reason why guys like Final Fantasy VII so much? I can think of one reason why...

Spoiler

Well, more like "two" reasons why. 1, 2.

Ok, now to be serious.

I consider FFVII a good Final Fantasy game. In order of FF games I love, it would be from most loved to least loved; FFVIII, FFX, FFVII, FFVI, and FFXII.

The majority of the other Final Fantasy games were also ok. FFIX was alright. I just thought it's mini-game Tetra Master was lame and difficult to complete as a sidequest, and I thought some of it's characters, like Quina, were kind of unneeded. FFXIII was a decent game for Square-Enix for entering the current generation of consoles, but just felt too linear and not enough open-ended. Final Fantasy Tactics was also a good game.

But let's not forget, and worst Final Fantasy out there would have to be Final Fantasy II. The orginal. None of it's remakes. Good lord, it's level up system was horrible and it didn't make sense to hit your allies to regain health.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

FFX, for me, gained much more ground from its gameplay, combat, and upgrade systems. The music was, as always, quite stellar, too. I thought the game was honestly a much better FF than FFVII, and it remains perhaps my favorite of the franchise. Though I know it carries its own amount of hatred with it.

I can agree there. The FFX battle theme is probably my favourite despit VII's being more memorable. The combat was fun and engaging and the upgrade system was shallow at it's core but compared to previous games it was rather complex.

 

[Arehexes]

I think you should change "FFVII wasn't good for me", because from an objective standpoint it was great.

Anyone who disputes this is doing so because they are either comparing it to modern games or just don't like it because it was popular.

Wow so him not liking it is subjective but objectively it is good? Are you serious, no really answer me that because there is no such thing as an objectively good game or any other medium. I played FF7 3 times to give it a decent chance and thought 8 5 6 2 10 and 1 where better for other reasons. Midgar was crap and to be honest I like Crisis Core more then 7, at least I felt bad when Zack died over the flower girl. It's more harder to watch a proud solider fight to the very end then a flower girl getting stabbed in the back but a long sword (and if you use that "well she was a main plot point" I will say "So was Zack"). And I don't compare games from 95 to games from 2009 or what ever years you wanna use. I sat down and played 6 8 and then 7 and though 7 was the worse. I can play FF5 every time and love the character and with 7 I can't take it serious with the Mr. T wanna be or the man who went kill crazy when he found out he was a clone. Wow big bad solider loses it when he learns to be a clone from a alien thing. Kefka sold it better, he wanted power which made him crazy, he killed a whole town so subtly with poison not with a giant fire and stabbings. And Kefka DESTROYED THE WORLD, I laugh at your white hair villain.

 

[Arehexes]

Reason why guys like Final Fantasy VII so much? I can think of one reason why...

Spoiler

Well, more like "two" reasons why. 1, 2.

Ok, now to be serious.

I consider FFVII a good Final Fantasy game. In order of FF games I love, it would be from most loved to least loved; FFVIII, FFX, FFVII, FFVI, and FFXII.

The majority of the other Final Fantasy games were also ok. FFIX was alright. I just thought it's mini-game Tetra Master was lame and difficult to complete as a sidequest, and I thought some of it's characters, like Quina, were kind of unneeded. FFXIII was a decent game for Square-Enix for entering the current generation of consoles, but just felt too linear and not enough open-ended. Final Fantasy Tactics was also a good game.

But let's not forget, and worst Final Fantasy out there would have to be Final Fantasy II. The orginal. None of it's remakes. Good lord, it's level up system was horrible and it didn't make sense to hit your allies to regain health.

Your forgetting Final Fantasy:Mystic Quest or as it's called in japan "Final Fantasy:We feel this is the best America can do with their weak minds now let us go do complex math problems"...well it was made for the US in mind to be easy.

 

[Hong Meiling]

FF7 was pretty cool, but it's not that freaking special.
6 did the RPG part better.
8 did the "omg graphics on psx" better.
It's not terrible. It's pretty okay. Seriously, this rant is like 7 years too late. The biggest reason people still rag on about 7 is because it had (and still has) one of the worst fanbases ever.

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

I assume it was one of those "you had to be there at the time" kind of scenarios. It was different and interesting for the time, so it has a special place in the lives of the people it changed.

If you don't like it, great. But let others make their own opinions.

 

[Chibz]

I assume it was one of those "you had to be there at the time" kind of scenarios. It was different and interesting for the time, so it has a special place in the lives of the people it changed.

I'm going to be brutally honest here. Most my gaming friends were "There at the time" and none of them really enjoy the game at all.

It seems to me that most people who are fanboys of it had little to no JRPG experience prior.

 

[YamadaJisho]

Everyone has their own opinions about games, and everyone is entitled to like any game they want. But you asked, so here it is.

I liked FFVII, but it was the begining of the end of square for me. They started to rely more on graphics and gimicks than actual storyline (even though the storyline was pretty good, the last time I've been able to say that about a final fantasy game until XII came out), and even then, it didn't really bring anything new to the genre. It had a new magic system, sure, but name one final fantasy game that has a magic system like another. Every other final fantasy before it brought something new to the gameplay or world that made the game franchise as a whole better.

The original final fantasy set up the baseline and was very true to its DnD roots (whether or not that was the inspiration for the game, but I think I remember reading that it was). Final Fantasy II set up the beginings of the interchangable class system (though it wasn't done particularly well there) and set up set characters rather than player-made ones. Final Fantasy III set up the world a bit more, introducing save points for the first time (in the original versions, at least) and introduced moogles (love 'em or hate 'em). Final Fantasy IV solidified the combat and storyline, and introduced the row function in the game. Final Fantasy V brought in the interchangable Class System that crops up from time to time (and is generally a fan-favorite). Final Fantasy VI (my personal favorite) probably introduced the most, with the inclusion of magic affecting leveling stats, the ability to change members of your party, and the inclusion of limit breaks (yeah, they were there, they were just REALLY hard to pull off). After FFVI, nothing really new was added to the games. FFVII was graphically beautiful (especially for the time) and was a huge game, but nothing new was really added to the Final Fantasy world or the gameplay of the series as a whole. It seemed to be more about the look rather than the feel. It even seemed like a step down for teh story because, well, the characters were more adult and believable in VI, and the villian was more imposing and threatening as well (because, let's face it, Sephiroth summoned Meteor and TRIED to destroy the planet. Kefka brought about the power of the espers and DID destroy the planet. Halfway through the game!)

After FFVII, everything went downhill. FFVIII was widely regarded as an attrocity (with the story being convoluted, the magic system being nearly unworkable, and the junction system being overly confusing), FFIX, while faring a little better, suffered from most of the same problems (and personally, I couldn't effing STAND the game), FFX was FFVIII as far as plot, and the system was ridiculous and completely linear (seriously, there's really not any way to truely customize the characters in any meaningful way), FFX-2 was a cash grab, plain and simple, FFXI was an interesting idea, but it didn't do that well outside Japan (I played it for a little while, and it was pretty impossible to solo quest). The last Final fantasy game I played was XII, and honestly, I rather liked it. It seemed to take Final Fantasy back to its roots, storywize anyway. The system was odd, like a cross between the sphere grid and the job-class system, but the story was adult and I actually cared about the characters. Especially Baltheir. He was a badass.

All in all, the SNES days were the heydays of Square (and Enix, back when they were seperate companies), and ever since it all became about graphics, everything's gone downhill, with a couple of 'nice try's in the interem.

 

[Defense]

Final Fantasy VII is only hated now because it's popular; back in 1997 no one would be talking about how shallow the characters were.

I assume it was one of those "you had to be there at the time" kind of scenarios. It was different and interesting for the time, so it has a special place in the lives of the people it changed.

I'm going to be brutally honest here. Most my gaming friends were "There at the time" and none of them really enjoy the game at all.

It seems to me that most people who are fanboys of it had little to no JRPG experience prior.

It was most people's first RPG ever, so chances are you're right. I remember a member here calling FFVII one of his favorite games ever after recently playing it though, so it was just one of those loveit or hate it games.

Spoiler

It had better antagonists than any previous Final Fantasy and most later Final Fantasies. The battle system was also better than any previous Final Fantasy sans V.