FFXIII

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HyenaThePirate

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Grampy_bone said:
For anyone who says the player input doesn't matter, or that the paradigm system is pointless; well, you are wrong. Either you aren't very far into the game, or you have no idea how to play it. Correctly managing your paradigm roles is the difference between a battle that lasts 5 minutes and a battle that lasts 30 seconds. The combat system is full of nuances and depth. For instance it pays to know when to use physical attacks vs magic attacks vs elemental physical attacks. Magic from a commando has a different effect compared to magic from a ravager. These are the kinds of things you need to pay attention to if you want to master the game.
You see, for me this is doesn't ring true. If anything the system is either over-simplified or needlessly over-complicated to me, and never in the middle. Half the time, my paradigm shifts seem to effect my battle strategy by LUCK rather than skill or strategy... it amounts to much "switching from one to the next" until you find one that works.. then use it for every single enemy of that type. Worse, it seems like sometimes these sets are inconsistent, probably due to the individual stats of some characters. For example, assigning one team member as a ravager and one as a medic doesn't always seem to be as effective as assigning the first as a medic and the second as a ravager even if their skill sets are near identical. Then of course, some of the skill sets come off as wholly useless.. I still have not found a satisfactory role for the "synergist" or "saboteurs" except in the off-hand boss battle. Most battles seem more than winnable by setting everyone else to either ravager or Commando roles with someone playing medic, shifting that medic to a ravager or commando as the situation fits for those extra little oomph to get the stagger going. Still, i never can escape the feeling that I can fight and WIN every altercation by using the simple pattern of "Everyone attack >> Use potion >> Everyone attack >> Use potion >> Repeat until victory."

But then the difficulty level ramps up considerably (and arbitrarily) at some points when players should be learning the battle system. In the olden days of yore, we would have simply grinded the area until we were powerful enough to squish the enemies around you. Of course since every area consists of a pretty straight corridor funneling you towards the next plot-revealing cinematic, there's little opportunity for this at all in the early majority of the game. So it means essentially travelling down a tunnel, fighting wave after wave of similar enemies that either respond well to your established strategy or don't, encouraging light experimentation and discouraging heavy experimentation once you've found what amounts to the ONE working strategy to progress you through the game.

If I had to bet on it, I'd say that about the time gamers who are either new to FF or not die hard JPGers will be quitting the game and looking for something else to satisfy their RPG needs is around the time you get to the Vile Peaks (chapter 4). The fights here turn inexplicably frantic and again success at time feels more like luck than skill. It's either that, or you realize just how sucky everyone but the main characters prominently featured in every promotional video really are.

Edit: another thing that has been bothering me... yes I understand that linearity is a give or take situation for some, but I've also noticed there are no 'towns' to explore, no cities, no side-quests, no mini-games, no talking to people... all hallmarks of an RPG. There is no 'role-playing' going on here other than being shoe-horned into the role of 'button presser' to move the story forward. I always welcomed finding new towns and cities in RPGS, meeting it's inhabitants and having a look around, getting tidbits of trivia and possibly useful (or less depending) information from the local color. In this game it's just one string of action-battles after another, split up by frequent cut-scenes. All of the parts you normally would have experienced by running around town and annoying it's commoners have been replaced with a datalog.. essentially you have to quite out of the action to read what amounts to the footnotes of dialogue you WOULD have gotten from the townsfolk if the game had allowed you. This might be the straw breaking the backs of camels for some players as it really does make the game seem more like a slow hack and slash than a fast-paced RPG.
 

Space Spoons

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kawaiiamethist said:
I'm inclinded to strongly disagree. The game mechanics are just too different from a run of the mill JRPG and the bosses are very tough. I'm a seasoned Final Fantasy player and even I struggled with certain bosses. I can see a lot of players rage quitting and going on to something else - unless they're the masochistic type.
I understand your points, but I have to say, this is exactly why I think it's perfect for gamers who aren't familiar with said run-of-the-mill JRPG games. Yes, the gameplay mechanics are different to veterans like you and I - but gamers who've never even touched a Final Fantasy game aren't likely to even recognize that it's radically different.

I agree, the Paradigm system is a gigantic step away from the norm, and it makes the game that much harder for those of us who have to break old habits and learn new ones. It really does take an entirely different kind of thinking to master, and therein, I think, lays the appeal for players who aren't familiar with JRPGs. It's a fresh start, as it were, and one that has a bit of arcade style flavoring to boot.

As for the difficulty level, I'm totally with you. However, I don't think the difficulty level would be any worse for someone unfamiliar with traditional Final Fantasy gameplay, because for all intents and purposes, FFXIII isn't a traditional Final Fantasy at all. Veterans and newbies alike are essentially in the same boat on this one. I wouldn't think someone new to the series would be any more likely to simply quit than a hardcore veteran would.
 

Jaranja

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Julianking93 said:
I've only ever liked 1 other Final Fantasy mainly because I hate turn based combat, but FFXIII is now easily one of my all time favorite games.

Its a must buy
QFT

It's a bit behind X in my eyes but, holy shit, it's such an improvement from the last game. Actually, I've noticed they took some things from XII and put them in XIII but only the gooduns.
 

kawaiiamethist

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Space Spoons said:
kawaiiamethist said:
I'm inclinded to strongly disagree. The game mechanics are just too different from a run of the mill JRPG and the bosses are very tough. I'm a seasoned Final Fantasy player and even I struggled with certain bosses. I can see a lot of players rage quitting and going on to something else - unless they're the masochistic type.
I understand your points, but I have to say, this is exactly why I think it's perfect for gamers who aren't familiar with said run-of-the-mill JRPG games. Yes, the gameplay mechanics are different to veterans like you and I - but gamers who've never even touched a Final Fantasy game aren't likely to even recognize that it's radically different.

I agree, the Paradigm system is a gigantic step away from the norm, and it makes the game that much harder for those of us who have to break old habits and learn new ones. It really does take an entirely different kind of thinking to master, and therein, I think, lays the appeal for players who aren't familiar with JRPGs. It's a fresh start, as it were, and one that has a bit of arcade style flavoring to boot.

As for the difficulty level, I'm totally with you. However, I don't think the difficulty level would be any worse for someone unfamiliar with traditional Final Fantasy gameplay, because for all intents and purposes, FFXIII isn't a traditional Final Fantasy at all. Veterans and newbies alike are essentially in the same boat on this one. I wouldn't think someone new to the series would be any more likely to simply quit than a hardcore veteran would.
FFXII was radically different from the norm. I've never played an mmorpg, but while it was like one, I was able to break my break my old habits and take on new ones for the game. I can adapt, and I've adpted well to this one, I just don't see it being appropriate for newcomers though. We persevere because we genuinely love the series.

A better springboard would be X; you won't be grinding for accessory points like in IX, you won't have to manage junctions like in VIII, you won't be dealing with sus character models like in FFVII, and anything before that, no sprites. Of course I'm looking at this from the potential perspective of newcomers, many of them likely younger than 26 and with low tolerance for older games. X has a strong story, an intuitive battle system, decent graphics and incorporates elements from the series well. And it has a great sequel, so there's more to get into.
 

Skullpanda

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To be honest, after playing FFXII, I told myself I was done with any "new" Final Fantasy games. I gave that one an honest shot, and absolutely despised it. Everything seemed broken or wrong. From what I've been reading, I probably would dislike XIII as well.

Fanboys and fangirls might dislike me, as I'm not really willing to give the franchise another chance after the recent travesties that have been Final Fantasy games and merchandise. In my personal opinion, they should let the name die now, create a new intellectual property in no way connected with the name "Final Fantasy", and leave gamers with their happy memories of whatever game they liked best. Better to give people something new to love than to keep dragging them back to the old...
 

Walkchalk

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I dont understand what all the hate is on this game. Ive played up to about chapter 11 so far, and loved almost every minute of it. Admittedly in the beginning the story makes NO sense, and the combat is a bit boring, but once you get into it its truley engrossing. Its one major flaw I feel is the auto-battle command. You can easily beat most of the fights just mashing that one button, but if you choose to pick your own commands, and learn to chain attacks well the game becomes very fun and tactical. Your able to stagger the enemies and launch them into the air quickly through a good choice of paradigms and skills.

While Im sure you will hear this a lot, it is indeed very linear, but opens up towards the endish? Im not sure I havent beaten it so I dont know where I am. Its not the absolute best game in the series, but its definately up there. And hey, at least its better than VIII and XII.
 

Zedzero

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Seems to be a mixed bag in here. Those who like it actually make valid points while the ones who didn't seem to just want to rilled fanboys/girls. Ugh maybe it will go on sale at walmort or something so I won't feel horrible if I hate it.

Still on the fence, just syaing the lover make good points, especially kawaiiamethist, and Space Spoons.
 

Syntax Man

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Well, while not being as good as IV, VI, or IX it is better than X, X-2, XII, VII, and very much so VIII (worst FF ever IMHO) and lets not forger XI.
 

Tarkand

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Just played it for like 3 hours, here are my impressions:

2-3hours for a 'tutorial' is way too long tbh...

They don't give you any 'xp' and still show you tutorial well into the first 2 hours... at which point you'll get magic and paradigm, which spices things up a lot. But honestly, the first 2 hours of only doing Attack/Attack or Blitz get really really boring... almost gave up on it.

Not to mention that story make little to no sense and the action is extremely corny... if you don't take the time to open your datalog and read the 'lore' in there, prepare for a very confusing few hours.

I'm also a bit puzzled as to how old the characters are supposed to be? The cutscene with Snow and Serah during the firework was just ... wrong... would make a great scene for unskippable.
 

kawaiiamethist

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Zedzero said:
Seems to be a mixed bag in here. Those who like it actually make valid points while the ones who didn't seem to just want to rilled fanboys/girls. Ugh maybe it will go on sale at walmort or something so I won't feel horrible if I hate it.

Still on the fence, just syaing the lover make good points, especially kawaiiamethist, and Space Spoons.
I enjoy this game, I wouldn't say I love it just yet, though I am about to finish chapter 12 and just paused my game ^^ I've waited for this game for a few years, followed it with passion burning in my fangirl heart and put my preorder down first chance I got. Needless to say, my expectations were high. Here's a run down of what I like and don't like:

PROS:
-It's pretty, so, so pretty
-Strong voice acting
-Lovely music, many tracks reminiscent of XII and X
-Unique battle system (it is fairly intuitive after a while, but don't be fooled, you need to read the battlefield and change paradigms frequently)
-Barely any need for gil
-Leveling up is simple
-No mana points
-Barely any weapon management
-You can 'retry' any battle, essentially 'runaway' with no cost

CONS:
-Sidequests are best taken care of AFTER the end credits
-Story relies on you to read datalogues to get what the heck is going on
-Not enough screen time for side characters, so when they die or turn against you, you don't care
-No Japanese track (there's no excuse in this day and age)
-Several VERY challenging bosses that can take up to 20 mins (oh, and some cast doom near the end, joy)
-Linear, uninteresting maps
-No mini games to break up the action

You see, there's a mixed bag reaction because this game is a mixed bag. Final Fantasy fans will play it because it's a new Final Fantasy, but it has everything going for it to make it a divisive title.

Rent it or borrow it from a mate, but if you care about the JRPG genre at all, you owe it to yourself to see what all the fuss is about.
 

Brad Shepard

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I loved all but FF11, only FF i have ever solded, it was that bad... anyway, 13 is amazing, the battle system and leveling system is very intresting.
 

Flight

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I'm actually not sure as to whether or not I'll be checking out/buying the game. I didn't particularly like FF XII, and while XIII definitely looks nice, it's not just looks that attract me to a game. I think I'll wait a bit on this one and maybe rent it before I decide to buy it or not.
 

Denamic

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It's a great game.
The story is a bit... meh, actually.
And the writing doesn't translate that well into English.
However, the gameplay, voice acting (except for Vanille) and graphics are all way up there.
You'll be in awe when you get to Gran Pulse.
The scenery is like a moving painting of awesome.

Definitely worth buying, imo.

Also, the battle system is the greatest battle system in the history of jRPGs.
I'm not even exaggerating.
 

Baconmonster723

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This game in my book I would regard as meh, it's ok. However, I feel I must justify my stance of meh, it's ok lest I come off as a hater. All I have seen lately in forums (surprisingly not at the escapist though) either praising the hell out of this game or tearing it to pieces.

Honestly, I'm somewhere in between, I usually rate games a good bit lower than critics, for example, I believe Uncharted 2 deserves around an 84/100 whereas metacritic averages it out to around 96. Whereas the best score I would have ever given to a game is a low 90, (this game is ME2 but I'm a homer with the ME series so I don't tend to bring it up). Anyway my point being when I say that I can't bring myself to give this game better than a 72/100 on my personal review scale I can't convince myself that it is a bad game.

*THIS MAY CONTAIN MINOR SPOILERS*
It will be as vague as possible but still may contain very very minor spoilers.


Anyway, back to my original point. Now I want to clarify again, this is just my opinion, but what I am stating are issues I had with the game. There are so many things about this game I couldn't stand. I felt nothing for any of the characters except Sazh and Lightning. Sazh was by far the character I sympathized the most with because of his backstory and because he has a (insert expletive) Baby Fro-Cobo. Lightning has a personality that clicks with mine, therefore, I naturally at least somewhat cared about her. Vanille, Snow, and Hope all rubbed me the wrong way and I could really have cared less about them. Fang is the enigma to me, I can't decide if I care about her or not. I think Fang is cool, I think she is sassy, but I none of that is enough to make me care what happens to her.

Then we come to the villains, or as I would refer to them "villains". There is only really one villain that I saw enough of to get a good shake of why he was evil, and even after that I honestly didn't care to kill him other than self defense and the story made me. The two main human villains are given so little face time I felt sorry for each of them because they were never portrayed as villains. They suffer from developer syndrome, where the only real information you are given is that they are villains, you are not given enough background to make your own decision they are because the developer says so.

I didn't really care for the characters and honestly I didn't really care for the story much either. It was typical JRPG in my mind and brought nothing new to the table, this isn't entirely a bad thing, but because it felt done before I'm left with an Avatary feeling since I've finished, impressive graphics, interesting world, mostly boring characters and story. Then came one of my pet peeves, this game starts like an old ass diesel engine, it takes a fairly long time to get going and when it does get going it just can't punch out the power to really hold my interest. The first 15 hours of this game almost made me quit it.

Then we come to the gameplay...... This is where I am trying so hard to not consider this a bad game. The gameplay is usually fun, eventful, pretty, and all the other descriptive words you find given by today's reviewers, but it suffers from a few problems that are causing me to take this game back tomorrow. (Unless someone PMs me with an offer for a used Xbox 360 version : P) This gameplay suffers from two issues that I just couldn't stand anymore.

1. Party AI is just........not good enough.

I've been railed on this a couple times already, but I will give you an analogy to show you what I mean. Dragon Age, a western RPG has mediocre party AI, however, this is solved by two things, you can give them preset attitudes and styles in battle and you can control them if you really have to. While Final Fantasy XIII has neither of these two things the Party AI is as good if not worse than Dragon Age's Party AI.

For Example, this occurred to me very, very often during my playthrough. I would be sitting around 10% health in what is what I came to refer to as the KO zone (anywhere between 0-35% health) with my party members sitting at 50% health. My healer, who is an AI based party member, casts two AOE heals bringing me up to 30% and my teammates to just above 65% I am still stuck in the KO zone and against harder enemies I would be killed by them. If the healer had target healed me a minimum of once, I would have at least been borderline KO and most likely survived. This is just one of many instances (this being the most common) that I can name of mistakes in party AI that really bothered me, especially since they all lose the will to live when the Player Controlled character goes down (Probably my biggest Pet Peeve Ever). Now this wouldn't have bothered me if I could in some way fix this issue. However, because it is entirely party AI controlled there is nothing I can do to rectify these issues and makes party AI poor. Not to mention they all suffer from CSS (Clingy Sentinel Syndrome) where they all hang around the FF XIII version of a tank and take massive amounts of unnecessary AOE damage.

2. This is made up of a few minor issues that are mostly personal issues I had with the game.
First, is by far the most nit picky issue I have had with a game ever, Paradigms are clever and fun, but I don't need to see the characters switch whenever I change "stances" I know I told them to do it.
Second, Insta-KOs are fine, if they can't kill the controlled character. This issue arose most notably with the Final Boss, it has an ability that has a chance to Auto-Kill whomever the boss chooses to target with it. This is only really an issue to me for 2 reasons, 1. He killed me with it in 1 hit when he was at less than 5% health causing the game to abruptly and unfairly end and 2. the time i did beat him my healer was auto-killed 8 times during the 24 minute battle. And this was actually on the low end of the spectrum for most of my battles with him, and it auto-killed my teammates with lethal efficiency (almost 50% which means that's around what it is or I have terrible luck with RNG).
Third, I became bored with normal monsters after fighting them a couple times. You fight a monster a few times, learn the best way to defeat it and you can auto-attack it to death from then on. This bugged me because it made combat boring after only a couple battles.

All these things in mind I could not convince myself that this is a bad game. It is just...meh, it's ok to me. I can see how people like it and I see how people hate it. It's just not a game for everyone, and clearly it wasn't the game for me. It was uproariously fun at some points and just awful at others, all in all it left me with a bittersweet aftertaste. Here's to hoping Awakening and Metro 2033 get the aftertaste out of my mouth.
 

Space Spoons

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kawaiiamethist said:
A better springboard would be X; you won't be grinding for accessory points like in IX, you won't have to manage junctions like in VIII, you won't be dealing with sus character models like in FFVII, and anything before that, no sprites. Of course I'm looking at this from the potential perspective of newcomers, many of them likely younger than 26 and with low tolerance for older games. X has a strong story, an intuitive battle system, decent graphics and incorporates elements from the series well. And it has a great sequel, so there's more to get into.
Oh, I definitely agree with you there. In my opinion, X was the last truly traditional Final Fantasy. As far as introducing newcomers to the series goes, it probably doesn't get much better. The problem, though, is that you're probably right about the attitude of many newcomers. As soon as they found out X was on the PS2, they'd probably lose interest.

I'm just saying that as an introduction to Final Fantasy for a newer generation, it could be a lot worse. As daunting as the Paradigm system seems, it's a walk in the park compared to aforementioned Junction system. That's the kind of system that would scare off newcomers before the end of their first hour of play, sure as shooting.
 

King of the Sandbox

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Ok, I've played for about 20 hours now and I can say, conclusively, that



It's not a horrible game. It's just not Final Fantasy to me. This is more like FF:Xtreme! Something made to be flashy, without regard to its lineage.

I guess I'll go play Lost Odyssey again. /shrugs
 

Axzarious

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Still playing through the game. So far, XIII has managed to keep my interest, with it sitting there, asking me to play it when im not, the only other FF able to do this was 6.... and to a lesser extent, 10. Still have not finished it, but I will probably be done the game by the end of the week.
 

Seldon2639

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Zedzero said:
So FFXIII was recentlly released, now I have never been interested in the series, but this one caught my attention, no not due to those cheesy ass trailers but due to the high ratings and new looking combat system (my knowledge extends to that FF is infamous for turnbased, which isn't bad but it has grown old). So this has me intrigued, and I'm on the fence to buy it or not. I want an RPG to last, yes I have DA:O it is good but it's missing that oumph, does FXIII have it? Is it a game that would be inviting to newbies to JRPGS? Or is it more of a "If your a fan you will like it, if not avoid it" kind of deal. A short review would be nice along with feedback of what I should do.

Update: March 15 2010: Seems to be a mixed bag in here. Those who like it actually make valid points while the ones who didn't seem to just want to rilled fanboys/girls. Ugh maybe it will go on sale at walmort or something so I won't feel horrible if I hate it.

Still on the fence, just saying the lover make good points, especially kawaiiamethist, and Space Spoons.
It's not the best Final Fantasy game I've ever played. It looks the nicest, and the voice acting is top-notch (the fact that Liara from Mass Effect is Lightning is kind of cool). But, let me give you the ups and downs:

Pluses:

- Fantastic graphics, voice acting, animation, all of that aesthetic stuff
- Good characters, and the first legitimate ensemble game from the series. It never feels (or hasn't felt) like one character is the most important, or driving the game along.
- Nice moral ambiguity (at least for a while)
- Immersive and will certainly keep you wanting to play into the wee hours of the morning.
- Legitimately funny, and well-translated.
- Cinematic

Minuses:

- The combat kind of sucks. It's too frenetic, and lacks the ability to really strategize. Aside from "heal now" and "switch to buffs/debuffs", there's no ability to really apply tactics or smarts to the battle.
- The extended tutorial/intro drags on a bit, but mostly works.
- The cutscenes can be a bit overwhelming. When you have a cutscene, then a savepoint, then another cutscene, they're being somewhat dodgy.


Your Mileage May Vary:

- Very linear, very point-a-to-point-b gameplay. Not much exploration for a long while, and little you can do to influence the story.
- Annoying characters, but in a way that makes sense. Hope pisses the hell out of me, and I found myself shouting "man the hell up" for three or so hours. But his attitude and reactions made sense.
- The twists aren't always very twisty. The first big twist was surprising. The second big one didn't phase me at all (it's kind of like when you know a particular suspect can't be right on Law & Order because there's twenty minutes left)
- Lots of talking. But, on the other hand, not much exposition of the "as you know, magic works because..." type. The characters don't explain things that should be common knowledge, it's there in your datapad thing. I liked it, I found it kept it from breaking immersion like a lot of other games. Why in the world would one person (who knows about the legends, about the city, about magic) explain those things to another?
 

Deleted

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Zedzero said:
So FFXIII was recentlly released, now I have never been interested in the series, but this one caught my attention, no not due to those cheesy ass trailers but due to the high ratings and new looking combat system (my knowledge extends to that FF is infamous for turnbased, which isn't bad but it has grown old). So this has me intrigued, and I'm on the fence to buy it or not. I want an RPG to last, yes I have DA:O it is good but it's missing that oumph, does FXIII have it? Is it a game that would be inviting to newbies to JRPGS? Or is it more of a "If your a fan you will like it, if not avoid it" kind of deal. A short review would be nice along with feedback of what I should do.

Update: March 15 2010: Seems to be a mixed bag in here. Those who like it actually make valid points while the ones who didn't seem to just want to rilled fanboys/girls. Ugh maybe it will go on sale at walmort or something so I won't feel horrible if I hate it.

Still on the fence, just saying the lover make good points, especially kawaiiamethist, and Space Spoons.
I don't own it yet but I played it at a friend's. When I saw Gran Pulse, it fucking blew my mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSRIBi7srZ4

I felt like I was there, can't wait to know the story.