Fighting Game Thread: Post Fighting Game Material, Discuss Fav Games, And Ask For Tips here.

[PurplePonyArcade]

I wish more people played decent fighters.

Lately it feels like whenever someone talks about gaming, they often don't even know what blazblue or guilty gear is. I met maybe 2 or 3 people outside of gaming world/forums/discord, who knew arcana heart.

I mainly just play games by aksys(blazblue, guilty gear, persona) and examu(arcana heart, Nitroplus blasterz). I did try undernight but never got into it, or learned what the grid system did.

I don't really care about things like MK, SF, which seems to get a lot of popularity for unknown reasons.

Street Fighter is where it is because of the nostalgia for Street Fighter II. Its Doom for us in the FGC because Doom was not the first FPS nor was STII the first fighting game but to each game an entire reason, new life, to a genre was born. Street Fighter II is the reason we are all here talking, playing, gathering competing. Tekken director Harada-sama himself made it clear he would not be here, a director, a game developer and creator to the highest sold fighting series despite Tekken's huge decline in recent years if not for Street Fighter II. Its not the best game to us all, hell I like 3S more and V about as much as II but its true. Since Capcom is still alive and in control of it thats one of the reasons its so popular. The other being the simple fact, and lets be real here, Capcom may have fallen hard and continue to make good games or games with good potential ruined but Ill be damned if they are not better at getting their game out to an international crowd than most people having anything to do with fighting games. "Anime" games that you, me, and Dreiko among others love are terrible at it between long arcade waits, botched release schedules when the ports are even announced(poor Europe), and often times the games eventually becoming obsolete compared to more recent arcade versions that taken forever or never get updated here(my dearly beloved Under Night In-Birth). Keep that in mind and also remember that the modern day FGC is often divided by both companies and our own stupidity and as a result have random stigma against "anime" games often. Even if the game does everything right in its release and release schedule(and thats bloody rare) there is still the unnecessary stigma towards "anime" games and while true its not as bad as the Smash community's treatment despite them being more supportive of their games than most of us its still unfortunate. Obviously its not all bad but thats why I feel these games are where that are.
Except Mortal Kombat. That series is where it is because westerners go batshit for it. I dont care how bad the games are, and there are more bad than good in my opinion, westerners eat it up. While its nice to see someone passionate about a fighting game they love there are very few people that actually love Mortal Kombat but an ungodly amount of people that like it. Or at least think they do because its a big name thats even bigger now that its owned by a big publisher like WB and no amount of terrible DLC practices while erase MK's popularity.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The stigma I find is more from the really casual folks. Justin Wong was playing Linne in uniel just fine in our locals for one lol. Most good players respect the great amount of skill requird by airdashers. It is the ignorant ones who wanna shut down a game with no valid reason who use it as stigma so I can't really become wound up about it.


The release issues are real but they come with the teritory of the games being half a step above what we consider indie games in the US so worldwide publishing is out of their league and they have to make do with what they can. Capcom has been at it for decades so no matter how crap a game (sf x tekken) they can easily sell it. On this subject, I am of the mind that if you really wanna play a game, just import it from Japan without concern asap. Yes it will cost more and that sucks but it is worth it overall.

 

[Maximum Bert]

So Marvel Infinity has been announced but until Psylocke is announced I remain only half interested

Also Garou Mark of the Wolves is on PS4 now which I have bought and hardly played (so many games and so little time).

There is also a new fighter coming to PS4 Omen of Sorrow

Spoiler: trailer

And lastly but by no means least its SCs 20th anniversary and there are rumblings of a new game although I am not getting my hopes up until one is announced and it better not just be that pachinko garbage or another F2P disaster (worst fighter I have ever played).

In honour of this I am going to post the greatest game opening of all time.


Its also Dead or Alives 20th anniversary (or at least near it) so maybe DOA6 may get announced (at NEC tournament) although personally except for the online I feel DOA5 pretty much nailed the formula and its still one of the best looking fighters out there imo so dunno if a new one is needed.

 

[K-sha]

i am wondering if arcana heart and nitroplus are worth buying on steam if i already own ps3 versions. the only reason I'm thinking of it, is because it might support examu a little and show that people play the game, and i might have more people to play with, though I wouldnt expect too many.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The pc audience is sadly much smaller and less good at the games on average since they get the games so late that all the competitive folks get the game for console to keep up with the community. I would just play the games a lot to suppor them and teach people stuff to promote them.

 

[PurplePonyArcade]

Omen Of Sorrow hit my eyes during its younger days and I was thrilled to see an idea to appear. Since then I lost touch only to find that development is still going well and its spread its awareness to more than just obscured Steam, PS, and SRK stuff and that is wonderful. I forget what part of South American its from.

 

[PurplePonyArcade]

The pc audience is sadly much smaller and less good at the games on average since they get the games so late that all the competitive folks get the game for console to keep up with the community. I would just play the games a lot to suppor them and teach people stuff to promote them.

Smaller yes, "less good" is dead wrong. PC is an easy enough format that most top players can walk in fairly easily. The problem is a lot of them don't and the ones that do are 90% of the upper tier players from my experience are Skullgirls players which is fine with me being my main game at the moment but we need more for other games. That and while one can argue Skullgirls is more active on PC I feel personally its more of an even split of PC and PS4.

 

[PurplePonyArcade]

I want to say Ragna is not a bad guy himself and I cant hate him by his personality. My issue is that no one can convince me that he is anything but arguably the worst designed fighting game character and one of the worst main character designs in history. Mori's team is inferior to designing characters to Daisuke its true. Funny enough while I like Daisuke himself more it is Mori's Blazblue that I care for almost infinitely more than Daisuke's Guilty Gear. I have had a weird journey of many positive and negative feelings for Blazblue but as bothersome as it is in times I can state with confidence that I do indeed love the series while I merely sort of like its older sibling Guilty Gear. The reason I know its love and not a VERY overlong infatuation is my complaint of how terribly designed Ragna is. Infatuation is not love. Its hypnotism that prevents you from seeing the real picture and all its glaring flaws. Real love and seeing the flaws and your feelings remaining what they are and I do love BB for all my issues with it.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The pc audience is sadly much smaller and less good at the games on average since they get the games so late that all the competitive folks get the game for console to keep up with the community. I would just play the games a lot to suppor them and teach people stuff to promote them.

Smaller yes, "less good" is dead wrong. PC is an easy enough format that most top players can walk in fairly easily. The problem is a lot of them don't and the ones that do are 90% of the upper tier players from my experience are Skullgirls players which is fine with me being my main game at the moment but we need more for other games. That and while one can argue Skullgirls is more active on PC I feel personally its more of an even split of PC and PS4.

Key terms were "on average". Yes, when for some reason people do decide to play on pc when they do know that the average player is likely to be weak, they do indeed walk in easily. Of course. The point is that as you say, most of the people don't play on pc unless it has cross play with console or the game is pc-only like melty.


SG I believe got some patch back forever ago on pc way before consoles so that's why there's an exception, but I generally dislike assist-heavy games where you can freely use assists for no cost so I don't follow it. Look at nitroplus for the ideal way to use assists in a game. They actually BALANCE how good an assist is with adjusted recharge time before and after use, revolutionary. And it isn't static either, one may start full but take ages to refill, the other may take ages to fill once but the second use fills up faster. Lots of room for strategy is allowed from this and you can't spam the invncible antiair or full screen projectile assists all day in a match to the point where if your foe doesn't have assists the MU is 10-0.

 

[K-sha]

I would have to disagree with BB having bad character designs. I never cared too much about ragna, because of my tastes, but give him props. I do feel sad for him after finishing CF storyline, though won't say why, incase people don't want story spoilers. His character is pretty bad ass since there aren't really any other gaming main characters that have shown growth and struggled in a deep storyline that I know of. Compared to sol, whose been so high tier in the storyline, he usually just walks through most of the villains without trying. He is so bad ass that he just walks around town like normal, despite his bounty. We've seen him get his ass handed to him a lot, till the point he's the only one who managed to beat most story high tier villains in cf

I do love the murakumo units. tao, arakune, are arguably the most unique characters in gaming, eventhough I ve never been interested them. I love most of the female cast, and i tend to prefer females over male characters. I mainly favor Makoto, Noel, Mai and the Murakumo units.

 

[K-sha]

I also have to say I give props for giving characters alternate versions of themselves that play completely different, and are different designs. Noel/Mu12, Tsubaki/Izayoi, Jin/Hakumen, are the same character storywise. the only clones are lambda/Nu, who were originally supposed to replace each other.

compare that to melty blood or street fighter, where it's clone city.

 

[PurplePonyArcade]

I was insulting Ragna mainly. Not so much BB's designs as a whole, just saying Daisuke's team is better at character designs overall.

 

[K-sha]

I'm just thinking that the airdasher fgc seem pretty isolated from sf players, mk players.
most fighting game friends i have on psn, are friended after random matches, or occasionally met from dustloop. I see most of them playing airdashers almost all the time. It's common for SFV/SFiv to be in games list if you check, but it does not seem to be played often by most. I really rarely have a friend who plays MK games.

they dont even seem to use the same anotations. airdashers always use the number system 236, 623, etc to describe moves/combos. while sf players usually use qcf, hcf, dp, etc.

I'm also wondering if you guys have any opinions on skill level differences between 3d and 2d games in general, as well as airdashers, and more traditional games. airdashers seem to have a lot more strategy options and execution involved, because of tools available, and determining whether you should burst or save your bar. a lot more complicated movements, usually a lot more combo heavy and fast pace. I do not know of any execution movements you find in sf type games, that you don't have in airdashers. I do admit you can pull off some simple combos ABC, AB2BC, etc with little skill in airdashers though. and when you are getting comboed, I often just button mash to try to tech. Airdashers seem more like MMA, while old style 2d fighters seem more like boxing to me, as a comparison.

now 2d vs 3d, i admit i dont have as much experience with. I got into DOA for awhile. it seems like it's more about mind games than skill in comparison. other than not pushing a button too many times. you can just pick random and still compete without knowing the character. I barely played any other 3d games. it seems I can still do some really basic combos from my brief experience with SC/Tekken. When I tried playing casuals that don't play online, I found All I have to do is block, read their button mash combos, counter when it ends. or just keep a distance attack. I know I would get killed against actual players, but I atleast managed to beat casuals who play every once in awhile.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

3D might as well be a different genre, I had over a decade of tekken experience from back in 96 and it did nothing for my BB skill beyond imbue me with the right attitude one needs to learn figters. Comparin the two is like comparing with smash, too apples and oranges.


As for games like SF, I am a prime example of this. Back before BBCT came out I did get SFIV vanilla and played it for like half a year. Once CT hit though I never looked back. Airdashers have really easy basic stuff but the ceiling to mastery is really high. SF on the other hand makes the simplest of things be hard to do such that you don't need a lot of mental power to know what you're supposed to do but actually doing it consistently takes about as long as gettin down optimal combos in BB so the skill demand is still there.


And here we come to the crux of the issue; if I am to spend 5 hours in practice mode, do I wanna get out if it:

A: The ability to do two medium punches in a row and have them combo

B: The ability to hit you all over the screen, go super saiyan, web and poison you, then explode into the wall


I can't help but pick B every time.


The issue however is what comes when one doesn't want to practice. See, in SF, individual moves do a MUCH higher % of a life bar in damage, so even if you don't know anything, you only lose maybe 60% out of the potential damage you could be doing from most hits you land. In airdashers however, if you don't practice a LOT at first to get the basics down, you lose upwards of 90% of potential damage, more in some cases, and this really does cripple your potential for enjoyment and victory, doubly so if you face someone who knows how to play. All this results in the lazy or time contstrained folks flooding games like SF, while those of us who practice stick with the deeper experience provided by airdashers cause linking medium punch twice or hitconfirmin low kick into super is frankly boring as all hell.

 

[K-sha]

I meant more in comparing execution/strategy involved. right now it seems like airdashers for the most part require the most execution of fighting games, and also the most strategy options.

I guess nowadays, people who play airdashers online in general are at least reasonably competent on fighting game basics in general. I think people often forget about people who don't play competitively at all, and just enjoy the story line or play with friends every once in awhile which I started out doing. My 1st exposure to airdashers was actually guilty gear X1 on ps1. back then I had no idea what roman cancels were, but thought the character design, music, pace, etc was way better than sf. played ggxx casually on ps2, mainly with occasional person who also don't play, and against ai. It wasn't till BBCS came out till I learned jump cancels, rapid cancels, basic strategy, etc. it was nice having a challenge mode, with movelists and demos laid out. After that, I did not even bother with SF, at all, and tbh have not even tried SFV. I admit I'm still not that good at doing combos, I can't complete bbcf challenge mode level 2 with anyone, or ever every combo in a combo video. some characters I use just have the weird moves that interfere with my muscle memory at level one. I can still pull off some that would wow regular players, who might be coming from sf or don't play fighting games in general.

I guess that's why people seem to come up with things like blazblue is all about combos, and not spacing, mindgames, etc. they seem even reasonably competent players can dish out some combos that look really impressive to casuals. they probably watched a few casual vids on youtube, or played 1 match online. In reality, I think airdashers require a lot more skill in all those other areas, with all the extra options you have defensively and offensively.

For ones who say that they move away from the fundimentals too much. I would argue that, they have evolved to the point they have their own fundamentals. mechanics like bursts, jump cancels, airdashes, rapid/homing/arcana extend/roman cancels, etc have just become common in too many games, that they became the fundamental mechanics. Thats why I actually recommend games like persona, BB or GG to beginners getting into fighting games. good tutorials, story line, etc to keep beginners entertained for awhile, and teach the basics, which can be applied to less popular titles.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Combos are maybe 10% of the stuff that goes in the game but if you can't do combos you also can't do all the other stuff you need to be doing, the difference is you don't even know that you should be doing these other things, while combos you are instantly aware of. This lack of information makes players misjudge how much combos matter.

This time around challenge mode is great for everyone otside of console exclusive chars in CF. Specifically the Expert (level 3) ones, as they teach you actually efficient and optimal combos. It only took me 20 mins to clear all levels with my age old main but for new chars the expert stuff was worth learning and took a while, Izanami took me multiple hours to clear for one.


As for fundamentals, air foorsties is the big one you won't find elsewhere. As someone who mains a char with two airdashes, I am intimately familiar with the air based gameplan you need and people who come from other games always seem to painfully neglect air mobility options.

 

[K-sha]

got the steam version of nitro+ blasterz.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Apparently Chaos Code has a new version with new chars and netplay coming soon, finally I will dive in the game. Lack of netplay made me avoid it outside of locals. The game plays a lot like BB but only super jumps can act as jump cancels so it is a more ground based game. Char variety is excellent though. There's a magical girl cthulu char and a literal chef that is also the grappler (I will prolly still main the kunoichi with the Medusa dreads though, can't resist my burning soul after all). Fun times.

 

[PurplePonyArcade]

got the steam version of nitro+ blasterz.

Still need to get that done myself.

 

[PurplePonyArcade]

Apparently Chaos Code has a new version with new chars and netplay coming soon, finally I will dive in the game. Lack of netplay made me avoid it outside of locals. The game plays a lot like BB but only super jumps can act as jump cancels so it is a more ground based game. Char variety is excellent though. There's a magical girl cthulu char and a literal chef that is also the grappler (I will prolly still main the kunoichi with the Medusa dreads though, can't resist my burning soul after all). Fun times.

Is the Ps4 version out yet? I know its had an arcade version for well over a year.