First Xbox One TV Spot Forgets About Games

[Genocidicles]

Ergo, this is a perfectly feasible alternative for that crowd.

Not really, when most smart TVs are cheaper than the xbone and don't require a subscription to use other services that require a subscription.

 

[DiamanteGeeza]

I love how the ADHD dude, who can't sit still and focus on one freakin' thing for more than 2 seconds, says "Xbox on" in such a manly, I'm-commanding-the-bridge-of-the-Starship-Enterprise kind of voice.

Is this really what the MS marketing department see their audience as being? Fidgety, over-excitable, extremely wealthy, alpha-one douchebags? Yup, that's me sold then...

 

[Genocidicles]

Then don't waste my time and everyone else's by inserting your two cents when you can't be arsed to keep up with the conversation at all.

Had you actually read the posts you were quoting, you might have noticed that I've clearly stated on several occasions that I don't think the ad is a good ad, or that the marketing strategy is a good marketing strategy. Only that I actually understand what they're trying to do and it's not exactly an unusual marketing strategy (nor is it uncommon). Thus why I'm trying to explain it to the kids who'd much rather flail their arms around going "I don't get it, why does MS hate gamers so much?!? ;_;".

An uninformed opinion is not worth the time it takes to type out, nor the effort to respond to. If you choose not to read up on the conversation, then I will choose to disregard your opinion as being uninformed and an overall useless contribution to the discussion at hand. It's like the guy who sleeps through the first hour of a debate, then leaps to his feet to shout obscenities at one particular point that he misunderstood. Sorry, but you don't get to sit on the debate floor and act like your opinion merits people's attention if you've no interest in keeping up with the rest of us.

Your post that I originally quoted consisted of two replies to two different quotes. I thought of it as two posts in one so to speak, so I felt like I didn't need to bother with the second half. As for your second post (#100) I'd started typing my post before that had shown up. I leave multiple tabs open for a long time before I get around to typing up my replies, so I missed it.

You could've simply said why most customers wont buy a smart tv... Hell, you could've copied and pasted from your previous post, but instead you had to be a ****, so good going.

 

[Strazdas]

And even less people have consoles, and those are mostly high income single person households or single children families. most folk are not gamers.

Wrong right from the get-go.

Here's an article from 2007 which states that 63% of the US population are gamers. And it's only continued to rise from there.

Another report (this time from 2011, more recent) stating that roughly 91% of kids are gamers.

Gaming is a very, very popular hobby nowadays and it's wrong to pretend otherwise.

there are roughly 300 million consoles out this generation, thats ignoring that same person may have multiple and broken ones and so on.
there are 7 billion people. More than half of them has acess to television.
US does seems to be a bit console freaks in this department though. BUt you have to realized "video games" may mean some silly 5 minutes flash game they found randomly on the web. were talking about people who are willnig to pay 500 dollars on launch day. how many kids are doing that?
Gaming is a popular hobby i dont deny that, but it is not as popular as television or internet access. and its not always a "must buy newest stuff" deal either. most people dont upgrade to WiiU because Wii is good enough for them. thats the majority (casuals) demographic of gamers. Thats the demography that this console launch will not sell anything to. They may buy it eventually, yes, but dropping 500 dollarso n a launch day - unlikely.

There are a little over 254 million internet users in the US. A Nielson estimate places TV ownership at 114.7 million in the US back in 2011. The XBox 360 has sold roughly 38.8 million units in the US. Looking at these three statistics side by side, that's nowhere near a 200x margin. Fake statistics are clearly faked.

You talk US, i talk Worldwide. US is not whole world. US is actually a pretty exotic place whne it comes to such statistics, as its internet seems to be stuck in 1990 and sometimes worse than 3rd world internet and US seems to be fanatic about consoles wheras most of the rest of the world is much more PC-centric.

Except that we've already established that it's not. Smart TV owners are far less numerous than those who don't own one, and around 85% of those who do own smart TVs aren't even using it for the intended functions.

This only proves my point though, if they arent using it for smart TV functions, then they dont want such functions, so Xbox wont help them use functions they dont want. If this can be extended to non-smart tv users, thats 85% of your demographic gone.

Except that most people don't buy televisions like they buy their Kleenex, i.e. throwing out the old one as soon as they "finish" with it instead of waiting until it dies. No one with a lick of sense is going to sell their existing TV for a pittance of what it's worth to the used market so that they can spend several hundred dollars to upgrade, especially if they like their existing TV and have a very nice one. They're more likely to buy a device that allows them to get the same functionality without buying brand new.

So instaed of buying a 500 dollar TV and having 2 TVs they are going to buy a 500 dollar box that continents to old TV and does exactly the same that a 50 dollar already rexisting, smaller, boxes do. If they want to add functionality to current TV - 50 dollar adapter is all they need, why woudl they buy 500 dollar machine whose 450 dollars functions they wont even use?

Again, we've already established that the vast majority of the US population could benefit from such features. The audience isn't nearly as small as you pretend it is. The real question isn't whether or not it's useful (it is), it's whether or not Xbone can lure people away from the existing methods of obtaining that same functionality (which is unlikely).

No, we havent established that. In fact what we established is that very few people would benefit from buying Xbox for smart TV functionality, if any.

 

[Elijin]

I think people repeatedly forget about targeted marketing.

When you play an ad for the Xbox One on TV during sport, highlighting the exclusive sport broadcasting deal you got, you arent aiming that ad for gamers.

But of course through the internet, gamers will find that ad, then complain you arent targeting them with it.

 

[Strazdas]

there are roughly 300 million consoles out this generation, thats ignoring that same person may have multiple and broken ones and so on.
there are 7 billion people. More than half of them has acess to television.
US does seems to be a bit console freaks in this department though. BUt you have to realized "video games" may mean some silly 5 minutes flash game they found randomly on the web. were talking about people who are willnig to pay 500 dollars on launch day. how many kids are doing that?
Gaming is a popular hobby i dont deny that, but it is not as popular as television or internet access. and its not always a "must buy newest stuff" deal either. most people dont upgrade to WiiU because Wii is good enough for them. thats the majority (casuals) demographic of gamers. Thats the demography that this console launch will not sell anything to. They may buy it eventually, yes, but dropping 500 dollarso n a launch day - unlikely.

Can we stop pretending that people who play small Flash games or games on their phone are somehow less important than the "hardcore" gamers who play for hours on their PCs or consoles? Or that they "don't count because of reasons"? They're still gamers and we're only looking like the most supreme of asses for trying to pretend that we're still an exclusive club.

It's a simple fact: gaming is NOT a niche hobby only performed by a chosen few. It's one of the most common hobbies in the world right now.

First of all in context of "buy new 500 dollar console" they are not important. This is a context we are talking about is it not?
The whole concept of valuing gaming is different for everyone, raging from game types to hours spent to number of games and whatnot. i could easily argue that it is time spent that matters like in many other hobbies (for example a person who climbs constantly is a climber. a person who decided to go on a trip to a mountain once a lifetime isnt really a climber), but thats different discussion.
Yes, they are still gamers, the least profitable gamers who are hardly ever lured by new games or sequels because they are confortable with what they have already.
Gamers overall =/= gamers who buy new consoles. Or consoles at all for that matter.

It doesn't "prove your point" at all, it completely dismisses it. People who are buying smart TVs but not using it for the internet are undoubtedly using their computers or another device to serve that function.

Or, perhaps, arent interested in such function to begin with?

The Xbone's entire purpose is to be that device.

Then it is the most overpriced product of the decade. there are products that can do same thing for 10 times less.

I had a friend who basically used his Xbox 360 as an entertainment system for his living room after he all but stopped playing games. That's because Microsoft's devices are basically PCs with a hefty focus on entertainment media, be it music, movies, or games.

did he buy it as a media system though? because thats the point. people will use whats already there, be it smart TVs, the 50 dollar additions, or PC, instead of buying a 500 dollar console to do that.

Because the Xbone clearly offers far more than the $50 device is capable of, and anyone who has put any degree of thought into this would tell you the same thing.

If so, it hasnt shown it in this commercial at all. Of course xbox as a whole does offer far more, but if you are using it like a smart TV, then no, its not offering you more, or rather, your not using it more. Well ok, we can add a blueray player there as it does that.

Said adapter still requires a local wireless internet hub (it doesn't magically produce its own internet connection, so you're still paying for internet), same as the Xbone.

Not sure why you need it to be wireless, which is extra cost and lower speeds, but yes you still have to pay for itnernet if you want to use internet be it on PC, Xbox, PS4, TV, phone or whatever other decide you want to use. however, you will also need to play for Xbox Gold subscription if your using Xbox one. on top of your internet costs. And if your using it as smart TV for TV purposes, you need no internet since you got cable TV. Xbox will need cable TV too you know. it wont replace it.

But the adapter doesn't have access to your music, movie, or game libraries like the Xbone would. You need a device with sufficient storage wired to your television in order to get that sort of capability. All the adapter can do is search for attached storage devices....whereas the Xbone is a storage device.

a very small (250gb) storage device that will fit 5 blue-ray movies (unless it can somehow magically take my discs in and store them inside) that would need a overpriced proprietary external device because Microsoft decided not to allow us to use the same one we already used for TV adapters.

You seem to keep willfully forgetting that the Xbone is, in essence, a PC with a camera attached to it. It can do just about everything that a computer can, and its specs (while still poorer than a PC) are more affordable for cheaper families than a gaming PC of identical function. The magical $50 adapter can't do ANY of that, it's purely a wireless adapter to make your TV act as a monitor for your internet.

A PC of identical function is cheaper than 500 dollars unless microsoft will hamage to power it with magic. It does take mroe space though so thats one thing for Xbox thats good anyway. But were not talking about gaming. there was no gaming in the commercial. were talking about what this exactl comemrcial makes Xbox look like, and in this case it is the worst product to choose from. you are deviating into "xbox in general" instead of "xbox in this advertisement". I never claimed athat a 50 dollar adapter can play games. in fact in my very first post i have stated that im not talking about people who will buy it to play games.

Yes, we've definitely established that. You just don't like admitting that the facts disagree with your stance.

I dont see you saing "i think otherwise" is establishing anything. I will quote myself, this time with emphasis: "ery few people would benefit from buying Xbox for smart TV functionality, if any."
What does your facts save for first one have to do with this is beyond me.

 

[Strazdas]

The Nintendo Wii begs to disagree with you. Its primary purchasers were people who don't buy consoles normally.

Excelt that Wii have offered functionality no other device offered. So people who wanted that functionality bought it for that functionality. Xbox smart TV functionality however is a more expensive variant of already existing functionality.

No, the research shows that people DO use internet functionality in tandem with their televisions. They just prefer to run it through other devices.

fair enough.

Except that, as I established in my last post, you're WRONG. Because the $50 adapter can't perform the same functionality as the Xbone can.

What Xbox smart TV functionality have superior to normal Smart TV functionality?

I wouldn't be surprised. But again, that's my reasoning as to why this is a bad marketing strategy. If you were reading my posts properly, you'd know that I don't actually expect this marketing campaign of theirs to bear much fruit. Only that I can see what they were going for.

We seem to agree while disagreeing. i did read your posts and i simply did not comment on that part as i had nothing to say about this. You later posts however seem to argue that indeed this will bear fruit.

Also, are you seriously resorting to the "if I choose not to use it, then it doesn't matter if the device offers it" argument?

Why not? why would you buy a device that does some things you are not interested in and pay more for functionality your never going to use?

Because the adapter you keep bragging about? It's a wireless adapter. You still need an actual internet connection run through a wireless router. It helps if you actually go and look at the product you're talking about, so you know what it's capable of. Otherwise, someone like me comes along and pokes holes in your assertions simply by pointing to the product page and saying "go read".

Wired ones exist. i have one. I never denied it uses internet connection for internet services. so does everything using internet services.

You don't need Xbox Gold to operate the Xbone, it works just fine without it.

But you do need it if you want to access skype, netflix and other internet services that smart TV does for free (if you have internet). Unless they backtracked on that too and i missed it.

Last time I checked, 250 GB is significantly larger than 4 GB. Or are we going to pretend that numbers don't matter now, too?

Larger? yes. large? no. Not sure where your getting the 4gb model? implying the smart tv adapters have that? could be, mine does not have any internal storage.
Like i said though, 250 gb is small for medial users nowadays. you get to fit 5-10 movies on it?

No, I'm talking about the product in a discussion about the product's advertisement, which is a directly related topic. Trying to shift the focus of the topic to points that don't result in you being proven consistently wrong isn't going to save you here.

And what this advertisement makes the console look like is, essentially, a PC that's specifically built for entertainment purposes.

So you start the discussion by quoting my post which explicitly states that the reasons i provide apply to non-gamers by saying that people will buy it to game too.
And im the one shifting the topic?

1) "Gamer" doesn't simply boil down to "buys every new console", and that the gaming market has grown substantially to the point where gaming is no longer a niche hobby. The Nintendo Wii proved that new audiences for consoles can be found from people who would not normally be considered "console gamers".

irrelevant to discussion at hand. we are not talking about gamers.

2) There is an obvious market available for people who want internet capabilities on their televisions, and people generally prefer to obtain that functionality from PC or PC-like devices rather than smart TVs.

Fair enough, but why pay 500 dollars for functionality that a 50 dollar device can do?

3) The commonly touted magical $50 adapter doesn't offer nearly the same capabilities as the Xbone, to the point where comparing the devices is like comparing a PC to a MagicJack phone adapter. Yes, one is cheap, but it's obvious which one has more functions available to it.

if we are limiting ourselves to smart TV functionality, which i did in my original post, it comes very close if not equal in functionality.

 

[Strazdas]

Excelt that Wii have offered functionality no other device offered. So people who wanted that functionality bought it for that functionality. Xbox smart TV functionality however is a more expensive variant of already existing functionality.

What functionality did the Wii offer to non-console users that no other console offered? Because literally the only thing that set it apart was the remote-like motion controller. And if you're seriously going to argue that the controller singlehandedly swayed millions of non-console users into adopting a console for the first time (rather than clever marketing on the part of Nintendo, showing entire families with people of all ages ALL using the device together) then it's abundantly clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

Marketing plays a role no doubt, but Wii have offered unique motion controlls and experiences (like Wii Fit) that no other console could and still does not provide. They took into the audience of people that wanted that, but not regular gaming and were very successful with it. Its low entrance fee (low console price) helped a lot as well. What you seem to imply is that marketing singlehandedly won them the battle, which is simply not true.

Ordinary smart TVs are generally a monitor for your internet, with some streaming and social networking applications built in. Xbox (and similar devices) can act as media centers in addition to that, which is why most people use PCs and other such devices instead: because they can provide easy access to ANY of the person's personal media with little effort.

I repeat: What Xbox smart TV functionality have superior to normal Smart TV functionality?
Being a dvd/blueray player is not smart tv functionality. It is also not something this advertisement even mentioned.

I've never said that I thought this was a good marketing strategy, in fact I've had to repeat that several times over just to make it clear. So you didn't read as well as you claim that you did.

I have no idea why you felt it necessary to repeat it but i never disputed that you didnt like the strategy. however for one who does not think this is sucesful strategy you seem to extort a lot of effort to argue FOR this strategy.

Because arguing that having a certain function on a device that YOU don't use is useless simply because YOU don't use it?

If you are trying to sell the device to ME, then yes. Advertising a function i do not use will not make me buy the devices so i could "not use it".

You're flipping and flopping between "people don't want smart TV functionality" (they do, they just want to do it through other devices because it allows for more functionality) and "people should buy a smart TV or smart TV adapter instead of the Xbone" (which is ridiculous since they don't have the same functionality, it's essentially like telling people not to buy a console so they can buy a smartphone instead). Which one is your stance? Because it can't be both.

My stance is the same as in my first post: people who want to have smart TV functionality, but does not have it right now, and has a HDTV (xbox dont work on sdtv), should use cheaper devices for this functionality, if that is all they need to have. This is a very narrow audience that may be attracted by this advertisement. This audience however is better off not buying Xbox and using another device instead.

Well if we're going to argue that having certain features is meaningless if I, personally, don't want to use them, then I'll simply dismiss this by saying that I don't have Netflix and wouldn't use Skype on my TV, therefore your argument is irrelevant. See how ridiculous this argument sounds now?

In which case advertising those features would have no impact on your decision to buy or not buy the device, because you dont want those features. SOunds like the same argument you called stupid just above. I have stated here that Xbox requires additional paiment for features provided for free by other smart TV alternatives, making xbox features actually inferior, but apperently it is irrelevant as long as it does not prove me wrong.

Doesn't really matter as my point is still factually correct: the adapter doesn't provide all the same functionality of the Xbone.

While in this particualar example it is true, just googled and found plenty of disc players with smart TV capability and 250 gb internal storage for more than half the price of Xbox. Xbox as a home media system is uneconomical whicever way you look at it.

Also, my PC only has ~500 GB of data stored on it, most of which consists of games. I've got several TV shows, a few movies, and numerous CDs worth of music. 250 GB isn't amazing, no, but it's hardly as tiny as you're pretending it is. Blu-ray are indeed very large in size, but that presumes the notion that people will only use their Xbone for Blu-ray movie storage (which is a faulty presumption, as a media device is not limited to JUST storing one type of thing).

Fair enough, its my fault for taking the first most popular media storage format and forgettign the rest. they may very well record their TV in SD format for all we know.

No, you started the discussion by quoting my post and then failing to read it. I've just been stuck here wasting my time re-explaining, over and over, just how many things you don't understand about smart TVs, smart TV adapters, the Xbone, and gaming in general (all of which are related to the discussion at hand).

I may be going blind, but My first post in the thread that your quoted [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.827720-First-Xbox-One-TV-Spot-Forgets-About-Games?page=3#20131839] has no quote of you.
Nor does my second post in which i state that i am talking about non-gamers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.827720-First-Xbox-One-TV-Spot-Forgets-About-Games?page=3#20131894]

Not irrelevant. The Xbone is still a gaming device, so discussing its potential audience matters.

irrelevant if we are talking about people who are non-gamers buying xbone.

But we're not, because we're intelligent human beings who know that the Xbone is not just a smart TV adapter.

And people who will buy Xbone for its smart tv functionality cares what we know about it because?

 

[Ravage]

Do you know why they call it the Xbox One?

Because you take one look at it then walk away!