Ampersand said:
That isn't talking about what you know that's talking about what you don't know. Your agrument is comparable to someone saying "i've never seen star wars, there for i know everything about it." You're arguing about something you claim to have never seen and know nothing about.
You've made statements like "I know that religion does not inherantly lead to violence" and "I know that morals are intrinsic to religion" but not once have you made an effort to qualify those statments. Explain how you know these things?
I've never said that religion could not be used for good. I said that it could be used to build good things but only on a foundation of falsehood and fear which is what religion itself is based on, and that it wasn't worth it when weighted against the countless atrocities it has been used to enact.
I have looked a both sides of the arguement, I struggled with this for years even after i realised that religion was false I still tried to convince myself that it was a good thing. But I wasn't able to escape the fact that it does alot more harm then good (I was forced to accept the conclusion I'd drawn from the evidence),it is by no means necessary and we are better of without it.
I don't know how you reached the conclusion that athiests don't think critically but critical thinking is the only thing that can lead you to freedom from religion if you are raised in a religious background.
Placebo is great in lue of actual medicine and religion is great in lue of actual education. There's just no reason for it anymore.
You don't know a thing about war or any kind of conflict, you just want it to be inevitable so you have an excuse not to do anything about it. I've studied war for years and I've learned that it's ineffective. Like all things that don't work we'll eventually find a better way of dealing.
I said the more educated people become the less place there will be for religion. How is that contradictory. You make it sound like i want to get rid of religious people when all i'm saying is that people should think critically about thier beliefs, which is just good practice in most situations anyway.
Argh my God, that doesn't make any sense! I'm telling you that people do not fight over religion where I live, is that so fucking hard to accept? Are you
really so hard-headed you can't accept that religion can exist within a society withou causing harm? Of course you can't, that would invalidate your beliefs, so instead you go on making shit up and talking crap. I just
told you what I know last post, are you just out-and-out ignoring me now?
Your analogies are equally flawed. How is that even remotely relatable to what I said? You're getting the signs of someone losing an argument, man. You started off very clear and concise but now you're just making shit up. Here's a relatable analogy: You say that every banana in the city is bruised. I say "Well, I live in a banana factory and I've never seen a bruised banana" so you say "WELL YOU JUST SAID YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ONE SO YOU OBVIOUSLY CANNOT KNOW ANYTHING AND JUST ADMITTED NOT KNOWING ANYTHING", to which I reply "But I am surrounded by bananas, I'd notice if they were bruised" and then you'd probably accuse me of not knowing what a banana is, or something.
I've explained many times and I'll explain once, just
once more for the slow. Religion has morals because religion has ethics. You cannot have religious ethics without religious morals. Therefore, morals are intrinsic to religion. God, it's not not hard, I'll do it again. I
know religion does not inherantly lead to violence because I am surrounded by religion and not once has violence been committed in it's name. Simple enough, or do I need to make some diagrams?
There you go again, "falsehood and fear". Noone has a fucking fear of God you lunatic. Noone is afraid of God, noone is afraid of Hell, and noone does good things because they think it will get them into heaven. That is all bullshit perpetrated by people who do not understand humans nor religion. Like I said, noone I know has a fear of God yet I have been surrounded by the religious all my life,
that is how I know. If someone is afraid of God, or Hell, or whatever, they're doing it wrong, and once again, fit into the 0.1% of religious people you seem to think accounts for all of us.
It's such bullshit that the actions of humans is blamed on religion. You've got a seriously fucked-up worldview if you think religion causes wars. Religion does not cause more harm than good. If all you can ever think about are the bad things, you're not going to be able to even fathom the positives. It's the smallest percentage of religious people that have ever done bad in the name of religion, but OF COURSE that justifies attempting to get rid of it entirely.
And of course it isn't necessary. Neither is capitalism. Neither is health care, neither are fucknig human rights. To say something isn't necessary is redundant. To say we would be better off without it is just plain stupid. Man, we could sure stand to lose another positive force and binding community power in our society. I think it would be significantly improved if there was less charity as well! /sarcasm.
You're right, because going to Chruch and going to school are totally substitues for each other! I mean, in one, you relax, feel good about yourself and get things in perspective, while in the other, you focus, learn and attempt to put as much effort into a single thing at a time as possible! It's like they're the same thing!
Playing the "we need to be free from religion" card I see. Well, like I said, many atheists are NOT critical thinkers. They'll just follow the group who they see as having the most benefits for them. For many people, this is atheism, because they need and excuse to feel superior to other people because of their tiny tiny testicles. If they can't understand simple existentialist logic, they are
not critical thinkers. All they see is a hip new group to be part of, and they want in, even if they can't support themselves in a theolgical argument for
shit.
Yet another sign of a man losing an arguement, putting words in others' mouths. I think it's great that you think I support war or some shit, but really, it's a pretty sad resort to go around saying you know how I think. War is not ineffective, it's probably the most effective way of gaining power, implementing social change, getting rid of people you don't like, etc. If someone has power and wants to retain that power, they will use violence. If you can look through history and find me one year, just one, where there isn't war, or genocide, or battles, or terrorism, I'll give you a shiny gold medal, 'cause it sure as shit ain't happening.
I don't
want war to be inevitable. Just because I'm saying you're wrong doesn't mean I like what I say. I've just accepted humans for what we are. A warmongering species. Did you know some types of gorrilla wage organised, open warfare on each other? It's true. Seems natural to me.
I make it sound like you want to get rid of religion? You're doing a fine job of it yourself, actually; "all i want is for people to think, and more importantly think critically, if they do that religion goes away on it's own without any help." What you have said right there is that you want something to happen for the result it brings. That is the same as saying you want the result to happen.
You seem to have it in your mind that religion and education are somehow mutually exclusive. Which is funny, because some of the smartest people I know are religious, and some of the dumbest atheist. So, no, education doesn't have shit to do with it. Unless your education is "Religion is bad, it's totally evil and stuff raaargh", which I suspect it is because how else are they going to combat one another? Then again, you also think education is the answer to war, and since we're living in the most educated time in history and war is still going on at the same scale as always, I think it's pretty safe to say that is incorrect.
