Public statements become everyone's business by virtue of being public. And in the event that someone who is supposed to be intelligent and rational spouts idiotic, unsupported bullshit publicly, that reflects back on their employer when said employer is paying this person to teach people.SonicWaffle said:Nope. Key words here are "personal blog", in other words "none of my employer's fucking business". As long as he's not doing anything illegal or detrimental to his employer then it should be absolutely nothing to do with them.barbzilla said:For discussion sake, do you think he should be fired for his statements?
I apologize for that particular statement, we have spent so much time debating the if part of it, that I forgot you originally said he shouldn't be fired. That was my bad for not looking back and refreshing myself. I have about 5 different conversations going on with people at the same time and I forgot the way your initial statement was made. Carry on m8Katatori-kun said:Do you need a refresher on what the word "if" means? It's a conditional- meaning that it makes the main clause of the sentence dependent on the clause it appears in. It doesn't actually say that the clause it appears in is true.barbzilla said:You are the one inferring that he was making truth claims and believed the hoax in the first place,Katatori-kun said:For God''s sake, read what I wrote, will you? Do you not see the italicized "if" that makes your correction completely meaningless?barbzilla said:You are inferring again. He never made any truth claims, he never even said he believes the theory.Katatori-kun said:No, read again. He's not opposed to a specific scientific notion. If he supports this conspiracy theory, then he is acting in an anti-scientific manner. He would be making a truth claim about the world which contradicts observable evidence. That should be inexcusable in any secular university, regardless of department.barbzilla said:The professor is not involved in the sciences so I don't feel that his opposition to scientific notion is all that relevant.
Not once in this thread did I say that he actually supported the conspiracy theory. I said "if" he supported it. Quit making up a story that didn't happen just so you can win on the Internet.
I'm not interested in this specific person's case. I'm interested in educating Escapists who don't understand what freedom of speech entails and how academia works.
Are you going to give any actual thoughts on the subject matter or are you just going to make a sarcastic comment and then post a troll face? I am going to assume (dangerous, I know) that you think he should keep his job. Am I correct?Dimitriov said:Of course he should be fired. No one that stupid has any business teaching at a University.
He doesn't actually believe in the full concept of the conspiracy, he just thinks that the media dropped the ball on some information and that there are some facts that seem fishy.Vivi22 said:Public statements become everyone's business by virtue of being public. And in the event that someone who is supposed to be intelligent and rational spouts idiotic, unsupported bullshit publicly, that reflects back on their employer when said employer is paying this person to teach people.SonicWaffle said:Nope. Key words here are "personal blog", in other words "none of my employer's fucking business". As long as he's not doing anything illegal or detrimental to his employer then it should be absolutely nothing to do with them.barbzilla said:For discussion sake, do you think he should be fired for his statements?
Now I'm not saying that is the case here. I haven't read this persons full comments so I don't know if he was being taken out of context or what is full intended point was. But the idea that you can publicly say whatever you want and not face consequences with your employer is silly and has no grounding in reality. You are not free to say whatever you want, not matter how stupid, or how poorly it reflects on you and your employer just because you weren't at work or speaking explicitly on your employers behalf when it happened.
And let's get real here; if you work at a University where your job is to teach facts and intellectually challenge students, and you make statements in favour of arguments not supported by facts which are intellectually dishonest and you would have to be a complete idiot on some level to believe, you probably should be fired. Because even if you aren't spouting that crap in the classroom, it at the very least calls your ability to to be a rational, intelligent human being capable of teaching others without bias into question, and it reflects poorly on a University to continue employing such a person. And Universities are businesses whose continued and future success depends, at least in part, on the quality (both in fact and as perceived by the public) of it's faculty.
"Can't" and "Should not" are different things. Could be be fired? Sure. SHOULD he be? I, personally, do not believe so.NameIsRobertPaulson said:Hank Williams Jr. was fired from Monday Night Football for comparing Obama to Hitler.MammothBlade said:No he should NOT be fired for his opinion. It's good that some institutions have a serious commitment to freedom of speech.
Rashard Mendenhall was fired from his corporate sponsorships for suggesting 9-11 was an inside job
The Dixie Chicks lost their record deal for saying they were ashamed George W. Bush came from their state.
Freedom of Speech means the government can't punish you. Freedom of Speech /=/ Freedom from Consequence.
Then I shall count this as a win, and reward myself with cakes!RedDeadFred said:In short, I think we agree with each other. I just misinterpreted your first post.
The problem with the majority of these conspiracy theories - including several of those you've posted - is that the conclusions drawn are lunatic. People tend to say things like "Oh, you think your government wouldn't hire Colombian death squads to patrol the streets of New York and assassinate random passers-by? Wake up, sheep!" and then never give any explanation of why the government would want to do these things.bigman88 said:Its amazing what's nutty conspiracy theory because your president yackign through the T.V. didn't tell you.
I apologise. Somehow I screwed up the edit.nexus said:I didn't say this at all, so why don't you fix your quote.
SonicWaffle said:The problem with the majority of these conspiracy theories - including several of those you've posted - is that the conclusions drawn are lunatic. People tend to say things like "Oh, you think your government wouldn't hire Colombian death squads to patrol the streets of New York and assassinate random passers-by? Wake up, sheep!" and then never give any explanation of why the government would want to do these things.bigman88 said:Its amazing what's nutty conspiracy theory because your president yackign through the T.V. didn't tell you.
Look at all your stuff about the US government infecting people with diseases, making them less healthy, killing their own citizens; can you tell me why the government - which is voted in by these same victims - would want to do this stuff without resorting to either "Because that's what governments do!" or some insanely convulted logic that leads to your pet peeve, ie the Sandy Hook shootings were an Obama conspiracy so he could ban guns? Because as yet, I've never spoken to a conspiracy theorist who could come up with plausible reasons for the conspiracies. Oh, they're really good at collating evidence, and some of that evidence is even interesting and may point to signs of conspiracy (I'm not naive enough to assume there aren't conspiracies) but they go and ruin it all by then making totally illogical jumps to a ridiculous conclusion.
"9/11 was an inside job, and the attack was carried out because lizard people blaaaaargh!"
Why? Dude who the frig knows but them. I'm not discussing there reasons for the past, present, and future evil U.S. and friends do. Kill of most civilians in foreign territories to better control the region and increase U.S. and E.U. presence? Genetic cleansing? Weaken worldwide populations to better control there health options and resources? Dude, we can sit here an think of the possible reasons. But all i know is that when the U.S. and E.U. aid some greedy, savage dick in whatever African/ Middle-eastern/ South-American/ Pacific-island nation in over throwing whatever president who meant well for the country's people, which results in the slaughter of millions of both resistance and civilians alike, all i know is that there is no intrinsically good reason behind it.SonicWaffle said:The problem with the majority of these conspiracy theories - including several of those you've posted - is that the conclusions drawn are lunatic. People tend to say things like "Oh, you think your government wouldn't hire Colombian death squads to patrol the streets of New York and assassinate random passers-by? Wake up, sheep!" and then never give any explanation of why the government would want to do these things.bigman88 said:Its amazing what's nutty conspiracy theory because your president yackign through the T.V. didn't tell you.
Look at all your stuff about the US government infecting people with diseases, making them less healthy, killing their own citizens; can you tell me why the government - which is voted in by these same victims - would want to do this stuff without resorting to either "Because that's what governments do!" or some insanely convulted logic that leads to your pet peeve, ie the Sandy Hook shootings were an Obama conspiracy so he could ban guns? Because as yet, I've never spoken to a conspiracy theorist who could come up with plausible reasons for the conspiracies. Oh, they're really good at collating evidence, and some of that evidence is even interesting and may point to signs of conspiracy (I'm not naive enough to assume there aren't conspiracies) but they go and ruin it all by then making totally illogical jumps to a ridiculous conclusion.
"9/11 was an inside job, and the attack was carried out because lizard people blaaaaargh!"
Of course, "ought" can still apply in the arguments you were complaining about, so it's still a valid concern.SonicWaffle said:Luckily, the context of the thread made it perfectly clear that the meaning we're using is 'ought', so thankfully we don't have to get bogged down in dissecting the multiple meanings of words.