Fortnite streamer knowingly cheats, gets banned, then cries about it

[Elvis Starburst]

What a dumbass.

I'll never understand how an idiot like this has 2 million subscribers.

how many subscribers do you have?

What exactly are you trying to imply here with this kind of deflection? That because someone has millions of subscribers, suddenly they're immune from being an idiot? Or that virtue of being popular, people shouldn't call them out when they act like an idiot? Is it really as simple as "He has more subs than you, so shut up" as if that matters to anyone other than Jarvis... Or is it something else? Like, who cares that he has 2 million subs and Wintermute doesn't? Jarvis still did something completely stupid and it's his own fault

 

[Xprimentyl]

A sympathetic part of me wants to feel bad for a sobbing kid that made a victimless-if-egregiously-stupid mistake

His 'mistake' was only victimless if he were playing the game against bots instead of real players. Instead he played something like 5 rounds or so using hacks against real players. If he had gone all the way and won those games, that's potentially 500 people who had their games ruined through no fault of their own. Certainly not victimless, and certainly worthy of a ban.

?Hence the rest of my post you cropped out.

I still say it was victimless because it was a singular incident and ultimately, it?s just a videogame, i.e.: nothing he did cost anyone anything save for some pride being dominated (albeit unfairly) in a match or two; those potential 500 people would have gotten over it with any level of intellectual maturity. My K/D ration in most online multiplayer games is heavily weighted towards the ?D? side, and it didn?t stop me from enjoying those that I did.

Furthermore, he very stupidly made it extremely plain that he was cheating in his stream, admitting his ?crime? to his millions of followers that ?this is NOT the way the game is intended to be played and NOT indicative of the content of my channel.? I think a full-on lifetime ban was a bit heavy-handed; perhaps a severe suspension might have better suited the lack of gravity of the incident, particularly since it was a one-time occurrence and overtly for entertainment purposes on his channel. I don?t know this streamer or any other, but it appears Fortnite was a significant part of his content and thusly a significant portion of his income; ?firing? him for an isolated incident of goofing off ?at work? seems pretty severe. Had it been discovered that he?d been secretly using the aim bot all along or intended to do so going forward, intentionally misrepresenting the game and misleading his audience, sure, take baby?s toy away for good; he doesn?t deserve it.

All that said, those are sentiments from someone who couldn?t care less if he tried, so not debating anyone who feels differently.

What a dumbass.

I'll never understand how an idiot like this has 2 million subscribers.

how many subscribers do you have?

What exactly are you trying to imply here with this kind of deflection? That because someone has millions of subscribers, suddenly they're immune from being an idiot? Or that virtue of being popular, people shouldn't call them out when they act like an idiot? Is it really as simple as "He has more subs than you, so shut up" as if that matters to anyone other than Jarvis... Or is it something else? Like, who cares that he has 2 million subs and Wintermute doesn't? Jarvis still did something completely stupid and it's his own fault

I?ll obviously let Lufia Erim speak for themselves should they so choose, but I think the dig was more intended as FaZe was obviously doing something to attract millions of people and that maybe Wintermute was giving too much credit to those millions? Don?t blame the monkey for dancing; blame the masses that show up to watch in slack-jawed awe and throw money at it.

 

[McElroy]

He can still play the game anonymously. It's a ridiculous case through and through, however, as the Almighty Copyright Laws say, Epic technically owns all the video material produced from its game, and thus they are within their rights to ban his ass.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

What a dumbass.

I'll never understand how an idiot like this has 2 million subscribers.

how many subscribers do you have?

What exactly are you trying to imply here with this kind of deflection? That because someone has millions of subscribers, suddenly they're immune from being an idiot? Or that virtue of being popular, people shouldn't call them out when they act like an idiot? Is it really as simple as "He has more subs than you, so shut up" as if that matters to anyone other than Jarvis... Or is it something else? Like, who cares that he has 2 million subs and Wintermute doesn't? Jarvis still did something completely stupid and it's his own fault

I?ll obviously let Lufia Erim speak for themselves should they so choose, but I think the dig was more intended as FaZe was obviously doing something to attract millions of people and that maybe Wintermute was giving too much credit to those millions? Don?t blame the monkey for dancing; blame the masses that show up to watch in slack-jawed awe and throw money at it.

Normally I'm a hundred percent with you on things, but I can't meet you right here.

This isn't really a chicken and the egg conversation. We've known stupidity sells since what, Court Jesters? Pratfalls? Lowest common denominator humor sells. Also, people like breasts. So plaster them everywhere as well.

The problem is, the more light shone on something, the more people expect it. As a child, I literally had my race questioned or asked if my mother was white (because obviously my dad wasn't around...) because of my intelligence and the way I talked. Why? People saw black people on tv, so that's the only way they can be.

People who choose to take on those easily rote stereotypes for acceptance damage a lot more than just their own pride. The cam girls who used to be on Twitch with low cut shirts and eating bananas subjected other girl gamers who just wanted to stream to simplistic comments about bouncing or putting on something sexier.

Those cam girls knew what they were doing. They knew that they were debasing themselves for money and/or attention, and they didn't care about the fallout. The monkey, in this case, is completely to blame for the aftermath of their actions because these actions weren't localized to only them. Yeah, they might have decided that they were fine with such treatment... but again, we're talking about the majority of the audience being the Lowest Common Denominators.

They aren't looking to punch up. They aren't looking to challenge themselves. There is no need for nuanced thought. This Guy screams a lot. That woman has great breasts. The more that people can get that type of 'entertainment' and the more people are rewarded for sating these needs, the more standardized it becomes and we are all brought down because of it.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

I'll obviously let Lufia Erim speak for themselves should they so choose, but I think the dig was more intended as FaZe was obviously doing something to attract millions of people and that maybe Wintermute was giving too much credit to those millions? Don't blame the monkey for dancing; blame the masses that show up to watch in slack-jawed awe and throw money at it.

If it was meant to be sarcasm (As it's hard to tell such things over the internet) then I'll admit on over-doing it on the reaction part. If that was genuine and meant to be that rather pointless deflection of "they're more popular than you, so be quiet" then I'll stand by my post.

I think a full-on lifetime ban was a bit heavy-handed; perhaps a severe suspension might have better suited the lack of gravity of the incident, particularly since it was a one-time occurrence and overtly for entertainment purposes on his channel. I don't know this streamer or any other, but it appears Fortnite was a significant part of his content and thusly a significant portion of his income; "firing" him for an isolated incident of goofing off "at work" seems pretty severe.

While yeah, one incident might seem a bit severe for a firing, I know there are plenty of jobs were you can be instantly fired for doing the wrong thing if it's significant enough (Though obviously this isn't as significant in a real world sense). When Epic states their ToS as strongly as they did for something like this, especially in their follow up saying they won't reverse it, it's clear they aren't lenient on such things. It also doesn't help Jarvis was on a Fortnite esports team too. So one might call him a "professional" Fortnite player, and thus he needs to hold himself to a higher standard than everyone else, especially the cheaters.

All that said, those are sentiments from someone who couldn't care less if he tried, so not debating anyone who feels differently.

You WILL take my response and push for debate, good sir, the internet DEMANDS it! *Furiously shakes fist*

 

[Xprimentyl]

What a dumbass.

I'll never understand how an idiot like this has 2 million subscribers.

how many subscribers do you have?

What exactly are you trying to imply here with this kind of deflection? That because someone has millions of subscribers, suddenly they're immune from being an idiot? Or that virtue of being popular, people shouldn't call them out when they act like an idiot? Is it really as simple as "He has more subs than you, so shut up" as if that matters to anyone other than Jarvis... Or is it something else? Like, who cares that he has 2 million subs and Wintermute doesn't? Jarvis still did something completely stupid and it's his own fault

I?ll obviously let Lufia Erim speak for themselves should they so choose, but I think the dig was more intended as FaZe was obviously doing something to attract millions of people and that maybe Wintermute was giving too much credit to those millions? Don?t blame the monkey for dancing; blame the masses that show up to watch in slack-jawed awe and throw money at it.

Normally I'm a hundred percent with you on things, but I can't meet you right here.

This isn't really a chicken and the egg conversation. We've known stupidity sells since what, Court Jesters? Pratfalls? Lowest common denominator humor sells. Also, people like breasts. So plaster them everywhere as well.

The problem is, the more light shone on something, the more people expect it. As a child, I literally had my race questioned or asked if my mother was white (because obviously my dad wasn't around...) because of my intelligence and the way I talked. Why? People saw black people on tv, so that's the only way they can be.

People who choose to take on those easily rote stereotypes for acceptance damage a lot more than just their own pride. The cam girls who used to be on Twitch with low cut shirts and eating bananas subjected other girl gamers who just wanted to stream to simplistic comments about bouncing or putting on something sexier.

Those cam girls knew what they were doing. They knew that they were debasing themselves for money and/or attention, and they didn't care about the fallout. The monkey, in this case, is completely to blame for the aftermath of their actions because these actions weren't localized to only them. Yeah, they might have decided that they were fine with such treatment... but again, we're talking about the majority of the audience being the Lowest Common Denominators.

They aren't looking to punch up. They aren't looking to challenge themselves. There is no need for nuanced thought. This Guy screams a lot. That woman has great breasts. The more that people can get that type of 'entertainment' and the more people are rewarded for sating these needs, the more standardized it becomes and we are all brought down because of it.

Not entirely sure we?re holding opposing opinions? Nothing you said do I disagree with; I?m not debating the merit of and certainly not validating any streamer?s content on offer or their audiences; just suggesting that intelligence, decency and good decision-making aren?t generally the main draws for streamers? audiences, and suggesting that one bad decision on this streamer?s part shouldn?t call into question why he has a substantial following. Streamers are characters, performers more than anything, and in the act of doing what they do, they?re occasionally going to do something stupid, as in this case.

Look at PewDiePie; the guy is likely reasonably intelligent in person, but his persona is a loud, obnoxious smartass who survives on a steady diet of his own feet, and he?s literally the biggest draw on YouTube. So how/why does a streamer who made a bad decision have 2 million subs? No idea, but it?s certainly nothing unusual or unheard of.

But I honestly think we?re reading too deeply into Wintermute?s comment; I think it was more an off-handed dismissal of the situation than an actual indictment, and Lufia Erim?s response needlessly (and hopefullly unintentionally) pointed.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Not entirely sure we?re holding opposing opinions? Nothing you said do I disagree with; I?m not debating the merit of and certainly not validating any streamer?s content on offer or their audiences; just suggesting that intelligence, decency and good decision-making aren?t generally the main draws for streamers? audiences, and suggesting that one bad decision on this streamer?s part shouldn?t call into question why he has a substantial following. Streamers are characters, performers more than anything, and in the act of doing what they do, they?re occasionally going to do something stupid, as in this case.

Look at PewDiePie; the guy is likely reasonably intelligent in person, but his persona is a loud, obnoxious smartass who survives on a steady diet of his own feet, and he?s literally the biggest draw on YouTube. So how/why does a streamer who made a bad decision have 2 million subs? No idea, but it?s certainly nothing unusual or unheard of.

But I honestly think we?re reading too deeply into Wintermute?s comment; I think it was more an off-handed dismissal of the situation than an actual indictment, and Lufia Erim?s response needlessly (and hopefullly unintentionally) pointed.

It's mainly that we can't blame the monkey for dancing. The monkey is a monkey. It doesn't know what it is doing is going to affect his relatives back home. It has no concept of the world beyond it's living conditions. It dances, it gets food, that's enough. It doesn't know the ramifications of since it worked with this peddler, hundreds of other monkeys are going to be taken from their home for the same purpose of the original monkey.

And more over, the monkey has no choice.

The streamers who cater to the lowest common denominators have a choice. And they choose to debase themselves. And their audience revels in it, and takes their toxicity to others.

We don't disagree on much. Just that... yeah, we can blame the 'monkey' in this situation. They know better. They just choose not to care.

 

[Xprimentyl]

I'll obviously let Lufia Erim speak for themselves should they so choose, but I think the dig was more intended as FaZe was obviously doing something to attract millions of people and that maybe Wintermute was giving too much credit to those millions? Don't blame the monkey for dancing; blame the masses that show up to watch in slack-jawed awe and throw money at it.

If it was meant to be sarcasm (As it's hard to tell such things over the internet) then I'll admit on over-doing it on the reaction part. If that was genuine and meant to be that rather pointless deflection of "they're more popular than you, so be quiet" then I'll stand by my post.

I think a full-on lifetime ban was a bit heavy-handed; perhaps a severe suspension might have better suited the lack of gravity of the incident, particularly since it was a one-time occurrence and overtly for entertainment purposes on his channel. I don't know this streamer or any other, but it appears Fortnite was a significant part of his content and thusly a significant portion of his income; "firing" him for an isolated incident of goofing off "at work" seems pretty severe.

While yeah, one incident might seem a bit severe for a firing, I know there are plenty of jobs were you can be instantly fired for doing the wrong thing if it's significant enough (Though obviously this isn't as significant in a real world sense). When Epic states their ToS as strongly as they did for something like this, especially in their follow up saying they won't reverse it, it's clear they aren't lenient on such things. It also doesn't help Jarvis was on a Fortnite esports team too. So one might call him a "professional" Fortnite player, and thus he needs to hold himself to a higher standard than everyone else, especially the cheaters.

All that said, those are sentiments from someone who couldn't care less if he tried, so not debating anyone who feels differently.

You WILL take my response and push for debate, good sir, the internet DEMANDS it! *Furiously shakes fist*

Lol, fine; have it your way! XD

Until either Wintermute or Lufia Erim chimes in, we don?t know what their intentions were; I was just offering a different perspective. Personally, I got Wintermute?s snark and the snark of Erim in response, but the former could have easily been a serious question, and the latter a legit challenge.

As for Epic?s ToS, I dunno. I get a strict adherence to its language (despite no one EVER having read it thoroughly (being hyperbolic; I?m sure it?s been done,)) but I also believe in degrees of transgression. No, being more popular than the average Joe shouldn?t afford FaZe any special privilege, but I also know (well, ?assume?) he was a popular outlet for their product, and his actions, while idiotic and thoughtless, were clearly for entertainment and not maliciously intended; he felt he was just doing his job (in a ?different? way, but his job nonetheless treating him exactly as someone who uses aim bots to cheat surreptitiously for personal gain just seems harsh. Intent is the difference between murder and manslaughter, and Epic chose to prescribe the death penalty for both. BUT, it?s just a game, and it?s Epic?s game, so they can do with it and treat its fanbase and their customer-facing outlets as they so please.

 

[CaitSeith]

I couldn't care less about this drama: he cheated, he got caught, he got banned, he is sorry and learned his lesson.

It seems that the system worked, so why is this worth of our attention?

 

[WindKnight]

What a dumbass.

I'll never understand how an idiot like this has 2 million subscribers.

IIRC, one of the most popular Overwatch streamers IS popular precisely because he's toxic memeing shitlord who got a three month ban from competitive Overwatch for streaming himself throwing matches and encouraging his viewers to do the same.

To the point he was winning the popular vote for a prominent role in the Overwatch World Cup community until blizzard quietly removed him from the poll.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Being more popular than the average Joe shouldn't afford FaZe any special privilege, but I also know (well, "assume") he was a popular outlet for their product, and his actions, while idiotic and thoughtless, were clearly for entertainment and not maliciously intended; he felt he was just doing his job (in a "different" way, but his job nonetheless treating him exactly as someone who uses aim bots to cheat surreptitiously for personal gain just seems harsh.

Reasonably put. And yeah, it probably was for entertainment value rather than intending to be a dickhead to everyone else, which isn't as extreme as someone who cheats in order to be an ass and ruin the experience for others. At the same time though, I have a hard time feeling sympathy for the result considering the extent he went to in order to avoid punishment.

Intent is the difference between murder and manslaughter, and Epic chose to prescribe the death penalty for both.

Also well put! Makes sense, thinking about it. Maybe it could've been slightly less extreme. But then I also consider that he promotes the game strongly with his large userbase, profits off Fortnite, acts as advertisement, and even was part of a professional esports team. As such, his content can be see as easy promotion. In that cheating video, he promoted cheating, which heavily affects Epic, as people may try and do what he did and give them more problems. This can negatively affect their game and brand. I sure wouldn't want someone with that kind of reach to be able to come back and profit from me ever again, personally.

Your comparison is a good one though, I didn't think about it that way.

Lol, fine; have it your way! XD

Hah, thanks for playing along~

 

[Elvis Starburst]

I couldn't care less about this drama: he cheated, he got caught, he got banned, he is sorry and learned his lesson.

It seems that the system worked, so why is this worth of our attention?

Entertainment, content, discussion that came with it, maybe some laughs. If you don't care for the topic, I'm not sure why you're telling us you don't?

 

[Squilookle]

I also believe in degrees of transgression. No, being more popular than the average Joe shouldn?t afford FaZe any special privilege, but I also know (well, ?assume?) he was a popular outlet for their product, and his actions, while idiotic and thoughtless, were clearly for entertainment and not maliciously intended; he felt he was just doing his job (in a ?different? way, but his job nonetheless treating him exactly as someone who uses aim bots to cheat surreptitiously for personal gain just seems harsh. Intent is the difference between murder and manslaughter, and Epic chose to prescribe the death penalty for both. BUT, it?s just a game, and it?s Epic?s game, so they can do with it and treat its fanbase and their customer-facing outlets as they so please.

But why? His intent does not matter when the crime is so clear cut- you use a cheat, you get banned. I could be an advocate for electric cars and a sustainable future, but if I use my electric car to go rob a bank, I'm still a bank robber. He may use Fortnite for his livelihood, but that should not make the standard, written down consequence for cheating any less severe, and he should not be treated any different to someone else that does the same. The crime itself here is the constant. Anything else is superfluous. Honestly if you really want to differentiate him from an anonymous player that cheats for fun, you could say he is MORE culpable, for not only showcasing the cheat but explaining the procedure for its use to MILLIONS OF PEOPLE! Making an example of this kid to that same fanbase was effectively the only thing Epic could do. The streamer should have known far better than to do something so utterly stupid in the first place.

 

[EvilRoy]

Well when you have one bad egg in an otherwise good group, you punish the group to enforce better behavior in the individual. When you have a large or unknown group of bad eggs in a group, you pick the biggest, cockiest, most flamboyant one of them all, and string them up. Brutally, and publicly. This had nothing to do with fairness, or a measured response, or a blind application of rules, it was a message.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Making an example of this kid to that same fanbase was effectively the only thing Epic could do.

This had nothing to do with fairness, or a measured response, or a blind application of rules, it was a message.

Agreed. I don't like Epic, like at all, but I understand their decision in this matter. If they want to keep their authority, Epic can't allow someone to flaunt the rules so very openly and publicly.

 

[Xprimentyl]

But then I also consider that he promotes the game strongly with his large userbase, profits off Fortnite, acts as advertisement, and even was part of a professional esports team. As such, his content can be see as easy promotion. In that cheating video, he promoted cheating, which heavily affects Epic, as people may try and do what he did and give them more problems. This can negatively affect their game and brand. I sure wouldn't want someone with that kind of reach to be able to come back and profit from me ever again, personally.

That?s fair, and had Epic come out and said this was the reason (and they may have; I don?t know,) I?d not bat an eye; it?s just the ham-fisted application of the ?law? that gives me pause. That, and an admitted long-running spite towards devs and publishers over the past several years, churning out lackluster products at ?full-luster and then some? prices; feels a little hypocritical that they take any sort of moral stance when they?ve generally eschewed morals for monies a long time ago?

I also believe in degrees of transgression. No, being more popular than the average Joe shouldn?t afford FaZe any special privilege, but I also know (well, ?assume?) he was a popular outlet for their product, and his actions, while idiotic and thoughtless, were clearly for entertainment and not maliciously intended; he felt he was just doing his job (in a ?different? way, but his job nonetheless treating him exactly as someone who uses aim bots to cheat surreptitiously for personal gain just seems harsh. Intent is the difference between murder and manslaughter, and Epic chose to prescribe the death penalty for both. BUT, it?s just a game, and it?s Epic?s game, so they can do with it and treat its fanbase and their customer-facing outlets as they so please.

But why? His intent does not matter when the crime is so clear cut- you use a cheat, you get banned. I could be an advocate for electric cars and a sustainable future, but if I use my electric car to go rob a bank, I'm still a bank robber. He may use Fortnite for his livelihood, but that should not make the standard, written down consequence for cheating any less severe, and he should not be treated any different to someone else that does the same. The crime itself here is the constant. Anything else is superfluous. Honestly if you really want to differentiate him from an anonymous player that cheats for fun, you could say he is MORE culpable, for not only showcasing the cheat but explaining the procedure for its use to MILLIONS OF PEOPLE! Making an example of this kid to that same fanbase was effectively the only thing Epic could do. The streamer should have known far better than to do something so utterly stupid in the first place.

A wise man once said:

it?s just a game, and it?s Epic?s game, so they can do with it and treat its fanbase and their customer-facing outlets as they so please.

Same guy also said:

All that said, those are sentiments from someone who couldn?t care less if he tried, so not debating anyone who feels differently.

 

[CaitSeith]

I couldn't care less about this drama: he cheated, he got caught, he got banned, he is sorry and learned his lesson.

It seems that the system worked, so why is this worth of our attention?

Entertainment, content, discussion that came with it, maybe some laughs. If you don't care for the topic, I'm not sure why you're telling us you don't?

In a world where entitled jerks get caught red handed, get banned and then insist they were in the right and just keep causing more trouble for everyone involved; mocking this kid for learning his lesson seems wrong. Shouldn't we rather mock those who don't stop thinking their bad actions don't have consequences instead?

 

[CaitSeith]

He makes more money a month than most people here make all year.

He's going to be okay.

How much is that in net dollars?

 

[Squilookle]

it?s just a game, and it?s Epic?s game, so they can do with it and treat its fanbase and their customer-facing outlets as they so please.

All that said, those are sentiments from someone who couldn?t care less if he tried, so not debating anyone who feels differently.

Then what the hell are you even doing here? If you're not here to debate, why do you bother to engage at all? Surely you're not just doing it to quote yourself, as that would be too sad for words. But I'm genuinely curious as to what your end game here is- if there is indeed an end game here at all. What's the deal? What's your plan here?

 

[Elvis Starburst]

In a world where entitled jerks get caught red handed, get banned and then insist they were in the right and just keep causing more trouble for everyone involved; mocking this kid for learning his lesson seems wrong. Shouldn't we rather mock those who don't stop thinking their bad actions don't have consequences instead?

I could easily add in a whole paragraph bout the idiots who insist it was completely unjustified and are pushing for Epic to change their mind, but I didn't. And yes, I did make this topic to also mock the situation, but it's because I have little sympathy for someone who intentionally cheated, made multiple levels of effort to avoid punishment, then are acting so deeply upset when the actions they were intentionally avoiding caught up to them anyways.

But honestly, dude... I just saw a stupid and silly thing happen that blew up in a massive way and I made a post about it also saying how stupid and silly it was because we didn't have a post about it and I felt like making one. Like... It's content. Enjoy it or not. Don't wanna view it? Don't. Or do. Who cares.

Don't come into a conversation you don't like and say "OH MY GOD, who cares? I don't! Talk about this, or make a topic about this! That would be a better topic than this one!" You have entire websites of content at the palm of your hands, and endless opportunities to make your own content posts on them. So go do that instead.

Edit: And yes, you're right, people in that situation are the better ones to mock. But I simply didn't make a topic about them, cause it's not what I came across and not what I decided to make a topic about