Forums, and manners

[cuddly_tomato]

Some time during my sleepy times, or possibly while I was toiling away on that compost heap I was going on about yesterday, some chap came to these forums looking for help. He wanted some kind of text to speech application, and thus asked here about it. The first few responses he got were along the lines of "just google it, toss-pot!".

Do you recall your first days of college or university? When you asked someone where a particular room was? Did they scream in your face "LOOK YOU LAZY BASTARD! THERE ARE MAPS PINNED TO THE DAMN NOTICE BOARD!". When you are out and about, and a sweet little old lady asks you if you would be good enough to tell them the time, do you shout "GET YOUR OWN FUCKING WATCH, ***** QUEEN!"

There is no need to loose your manners and be rude to people just because it is the internet. If someone has asked a question, answer it. If you don't know the answer, then say that or say nothing. Those examples I gave are a little different though, in both cases someone is asking you. In the case of the forum, they are asking in general. They aren't pestering you, they aren't cutting into your time and space, nobody is forcing you to read their pleas for help. If you don't like it just close the thread and move on, there is no need to be an ass about it and leave a nasty little sarcastic barb for them.

 

[PuckFuppet]

I'm going to use the classic argument, its there to be read for a reason. Starting a thread is tantamount to getting up on a pedestal, grabbing a megaphone and screaming into it.

"HAI WASSUP I R NOOB HALLO!"

¬.¬

 

[Legion]

I agree, although new people should take their time to get to understand how the forums work, after all there is not the same sense of rush that there might be in University to get to a lecture etc.

 

[Knight Templar]

If you don't like it just close the thread and move on,

That I don't agree with. You're pretty much saying I don't get to say how I feel.


But on topic, you do have a point, one person posted a link to "let me google that for you" and the resoults were people asking the same question. In that case the top of the list was that verey thread!


Saying "google it" when you didin't could make you an arse, and If you do google then you can answer their question.

EDIT:

How about posts like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.85508#1245869]?

That is the right thing to do.

 

[Lukeje]

How about posts like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.85508#1245869]?

 

[PuckFuppet]

Apparently I didn't get the point.

Ok so people are jerks after the new guy/gal gets up on a pedestal and screams "HAI WASSUP I R NOOB HALLO!".

To be fair what do you expect *is going to hate himself for this later* its like the first day of school. You were either one of three people, the person who knew people already and thus didn't need to do the obnoxious greeting/attention whoring bit, the person who just figured out what they needed themselves and slowly slotted into a niche or the annoying person that refuses not to get the point and zip it. The one who talks at a mile a millisecond and thinks that he/she is the best thing ever, the kind of person who would start a thread like "What is your favourite colour, cause mine is red" in a forum...

Also I'm a big fan of the internet, its a great information resource, as I've pointed out to people already its not that hard to google something you're unsure of rather than blindly stumble ahead in a conversation when you actually know nothing about what is being discussed, hoping at some point to pick it up.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

If you don't like it just close the thread and move on,

That I don't agree with. You're pretty much saying I don't get to say how I feel.

The way I feel about some people could be demonstrated with the kind of expletives that would make Satans face go from red to blue, but I don't say it. This is the basic idea of manners, to feel something and not yell about it. When that little old lady in the front of the queue is paying for her groceries in pennies and is laboriously counting them all out you will feel like going on a screaming spree. But if you are anything like me you will just smile and bear it.

Why doesn't the same apply here?

How about posts like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.85508#1245869]?

Yeah that's really nice. The question was answered, the thread is over and can drop off the radar, and all is well. If it had 6 or 7 posts of people screaming about the power of google it would not only be spamming, but also be pointlessly ill mannered.

 

[Fire Daemon]

It is wrong to be cruel to others but you should not treat the Escapist as a search engine. Its all about respect. You should treat people with Respect and think about how you are treating people when you post.

EDIT: I feel like I should add a little bit more depth.

When you go out of your way to humiliate and belittle people on an Internet forum you make yourself look like a dick, I would know, I've done it plently of times (with swords). Treat others how you would want yourself to be treated. Who knows, maybe you'll cock up once and everyone will attack you for it and you end up becoming known as the hypocrite guy. It is better not to make enemies.

 

[Corpse XxX]

Agree..

Ppl who constantly toss shit at others and always gotta answer like that, they have serious self-esteem issues and do it only to raise themselves above others on the internet..
Picking on others to make themselves feel better, i would call them socially retarded, and they probably leave the house only once a week when they are out of coka cola..

Good manners are often few and far between on the internet, and when people pick on such small things as spelling errors, i wish they could crawl back under the rock the came out from under on..
Many ppl have writing and reading difficulties, there is no reason for anyone to make them feel like shit because of it.. Don't you think they have a hard time as it is?

 

[Knight Templar]

If you don't like it just close the thread and move on,

That I don't agree with. You're pretty much saying I don't get to say how I feel.

The way I feel about some people could be demonstrated with the kind of expletives that would make Satans face go from red to blue, but I don't say it. This is the basic idea of manners, to feel something and not yell about it. When that little old lady in the front of the queue is paying for her groceries in pennies and is laboriously counting them all out you will feel like going on a screaming spree. But if you are anything like me you will just smile and bear it.

Why doesn't the same apply here?

Well you don't have to be overly mean, but point taken it would be better if people walked away.

 

[corporate_gamer]

I think your analogy is false. If the person was standing next to a map the size of a small house, with two big arrows point to where he is and where he wants to be, with helpful step by step instruction printed on a leaflet he is holding. If that man turns to you and says 'hey you know where my dorm is?' then you could compare it to someone asking for a simple answer which they could easily look up on for example google. It's just attention seeking when people do it on the internet, where as most people asking a simple question in your scenario don't have the instant and easy access to the answer.

The internet is a vast resource and you should at least try and search for your answers before standing up and screaming for help.

 

[Scarecrow38]

The thing is, many people do actually google the problem first and then use forums as a last resort, I know I do. Sometimes there's nothing about it and you need a current, human opinion/ insight.

The problem is people are very shortsighted on the internet sometimes in terms of what they say. This happens because nothing you say here will have any negative consequences on you personally. So, it's actually safe to say the first thing that pops into your head and not care how offensive/ inconsiderate it is.

It's the sad reality of the internet, it can bring out the worst in people.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I think your analogy is false. If the person was standing next to a map the size of a small house, with two big arrows point to where he is and where he wants to be, with helpful step by step instruction printed on a leaflet he is holding. If that man turns to you and says 'hey you know where my dorm is?' then you could compare it to someone asking for a simple answer which they could easily look up on for example google. It's just attention seeking when people do it on the internet, where as most people asking a simple question in your scenario don't have the instant and easy access to the answer.

The internet is a vast resource and you should at least try and search for your answers before standing up and screaming for help.

I really don't see how that gives anyone else the excuse to ignore the tenets of decent civilized behaviour and start tearing into someone or even just giving little persnickety jabs. The exact same thing applies to "Use the search button!". Never mind that on almost all forums all over the world the search feature is a pile of giraffe crap. Never mind that on a lot of forums thread necromancy is considered rude. Never mind that a lot of new people will have joined since the orignal thread and so a fresh start might yield a different direction for a new thread.

No. The important thing is that someone had the audacity to start a thread on a topic where there was one already made in 2006! What a horrible thing to do! So it is time to start flinging insults or, failing that, just doing little things to make the op feel very uncomfortable about a thread he/she started that he/she can't actually delete and will be forced to sit there and watch as it is spammed by rude assholes with no actual social skills.

We have these things that are far easier to use than google called "back buttons", why can't they use them?

 

[Novajam]

How about posts like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.85508#1245869]?

That is the right thing to do.

Yeah that's really nice. The question was answered, the thread is over and can drop off the radar, and all is well. If it had 6 or 7 posts of people screaming about the power of google it would not only be spamming, but also be pointlessly ill mannered.

I R Model Citizen. Horray!

Anyway, stay on any active forum long enough and you'll find that people's etiquette falls into a bit of disrepair. It's seems a lot of people are yearning for the "old Escapist" where there wasn't the flood of ZP watchers and the forums were a decidedly quieter place. Seems I can't come into Off-Topic these days without seeing a thread or two where someone's trying to gain support for mass overhauls and silly rules.

"I propose you must have over 200 posts to start a thread!"
"How about having to be at least four foot eight to ride the Rollercoaster?"

And all other flavours of, dare I say, discriminatory rubbish.

It's all doing more to hurt than help in my opinion. You want a better Escapist? Then step up and be a good role model. The actions will speak louder than words.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

How about posts like this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.85508#1245869]?

That is the right thing to do.

Yeah that's really nice. The question was answered, the thread is over and can drop off the radar, and all is well. If it had 6 or 7 posts of people screaming about the power of google it would not only be spamming, but also be pointlessly ill mannered.

Seems I can't come into Off-Topic these days without seeing a thread or two where someone's trying to gain support for mass overhauls and silly rules.

"I propose you must have over 200 posts to start a thread!"
"How about having to be at least four foot eight to ride the Rollercoaster?"

And all other flavours of, dare I say, discriminatory rubbish.

It's all doing more to hurt than help in my opinion. You want a better Escapist? Then step up and be a good role model. The actions will speak louder than words.

This thread has nothing to do with all that and isn't even about the escapist. This about manners in general.

 

[Uncompetative]

Good Manners. Tolerance. Avoidance.

Just a suggestion, but seems to work ok for me.

 

[Reaperman Wompa]

Some people are quite nice here *high fives morpheus badge*, but a lot of people just seem to have this disposition to constantly insult anyone over anything, for instance repeat threads, grammar, Post content. It's gotten to the point where quite a few Escapist expect shakespeare with every post, just in a new and unknown form. They might not like the fact it's a repeat but getting bitter over it does nothing.

 

[Solo508]

I totally agree with what tomato said. I think a big part of why people are so unhelpfully rude when somebody asks something like that is because they are those type of sad people that care too much about their post count on a forum. I guess some people feel threatened that somebody has got 1-up when they could have googled it. Thats how pathetic forums can be.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Sometimes we forget that one of the things that makes The Escapist one of the better forums on "teh webz" is that NOT ONLY are we more well spoken. We're also nicer.

Though I must admit, I have NO patience for "lol hy guyz I r hre tu post abt ZP, why 4 u all mad?"

But I'm an old man, and I refuse to "net/text" speak.

 

[sirdapfrey]

Some time during my sleepy times, or possibly while I was toiling away on that compost heap I was going on about yesterday, some chap came to these forums looking for help. He wanted some kind of text to speech application, and thus asked here about it. The first few responses he got were along the lines of "just google it, toss-pot!".

Do you recall your first days of college or university? When you asked someone where a particular room was? Did they scream in your face "LOOK YOU LAZY BASTARD! THERE ARE MAPS PINNED TO THE DAMN NOTICE BOARD!". When you are out and about, and a sweet little old lady asks you if you would be good enough to tell them the time, do you shout "GET YOUR OWN FUCKING WATCH, ***** QUEEN!"

There is no need to loose your manners and be rude to people just because it is the internet. If someone has asked a question, answer it. If you don't know the answer, then say that or say nothing. Those examples I gave are a little different though, in both cases someone is asking you. In the case of the forum, they are asking in general. They aren't pestering you, they aren't cutting into your time and space, nobody is forcing you to read their pleas for help. If you don't like it just close the thread and move on, there is no need to be an ass about it and leave a nasty little sarcastic barb for them.

I, for one, agree with you 100%. This is the first online community that I've ever bothered to actually join. It was the first place I had been that had interesting content and every other person in the forums wasn't posting, "OMGLOLZ4SHIZDAWGF*CKDATYO!!!!1111," etc... And while I enjoy participating when I feel I have something of value to add, sometimes it can be a little intimidating. For example, I am not a computer geek (certainly a geek, just not the computer variety). I know nothing about HTML coding and so on. I wanted to know how to make a spoiler box. No I didn't Google it because I had no idea if it was something intrinsic to this site or what. I read all of the forum guidelines at the time and there was no answer (this was before the recent update). I PM'd one of the mods for help, unaware that the forum guidelines were being updated with answers to this and other questions. In the meantime, I could have possibly posted the question to the off-topic forum, but God forbid I do that because I felt I would just be opening myself up to all kinds of attacks and general assholishness (yes I just made that word up). Everyone is new at everything at some point. The question is do we want people to feel as if their initial ignorance excludes them from being a part of a great community? Or maybe we want people to think, "Hey it's alright. I didn't know [insert unknown fact], but now I do and I didn't feel like an asshole for asking!" I think a part of being a member of any community, be it online or otherwise, is giving others a fair chance to be valuable members of that community without fear of persecution.