free will

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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I'd like to throw in a meta-argument at this time:

Since the OP is arguing against free will, he must declare that he has none, that he is subserviant to that which calls his attention at all times. This thread calls his attention, and he has not been here in a while. His position cannot be maintained while statements go unanswered, therefore if he must answer...but does not...he must have chosen not to, and has free will. Ergo, free will exists.
 

Womlet

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Jul 9, 2008
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What is the expression hind sight is 20-20? If I look backward of course I have no free will all my actions will have been made from circumstance or reason. If I look forward all I see is hope and aspirations and that is where you find free will.
 

Korolev

No Time Like the Present
Jul 4, 2008
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Whether or not it exists makes very little difference to our lives. I honestly do not think we have genuine free will - we are made of atoms and atoms obey the laws of physics. Our emotions, our thoughts, our very sense of consciousness are physical things that exist in the world. We're essentially extremely sophisticated computers - we feel that we make choices, but in reality what's happening is that our brain is responding in certain ways to certain stimuli. It feels like a choice - but realistically, given the same set of stimuli, we'd make the same choice every time. Our responses to certain choices are dictated by our neurological make up, our past experiences (past programming if you want to use a computer analogy) and the environment.

But it really doesn't change the way we live our lives. It doesn't matter if there is free will or not - if there is free will, then fine. If there isn't, you're still going to do what you're going to do anyway, so it doesn't matter if you know there is free will or not.
 

WoW Killer

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Mar 3, 2012
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Syzygy23 said:
If there's no such thing as free will then we are morally obligated to shut down all prison systems and release all prisoners since everything bad they did was not done of their free will, but was predetermined by their genes and upbringing.
Where does the morality of punishment lie in a non-deterministic world? You walk past an old lady, roll a critical fumble, and therefore punch her in the face. We would be essentially locking people up for being unlucky.
 

sibrenfetter

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Oct 26, 2009
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Flutterguy said:
Was hoping someone could give me a real example of free will, or point me in the direction of a good study that disagrees with me.

I've come to believe we do not have free will. Genes, surroundings and experience dictate every action we make. This has not made me enjoy life less, I find it liberating.

However I love being surprised and am always looking to improve my rational. I challenge you to disprove me! :)
FUN!

The real question is, does it matter? When you started the thread, I'm sure it felt like it was your decision, free will might be this feeling of control or more. Plus, as we scientifically progress we find more and more particles, universes and little bits. Each one smaller and bigger than the next and all related in some way. Taken together all these interactions between everything on such a scale basically comes down to an endless list of possibilities all effecting one another, making it difficult to define that everything is already set and there is no free will.

One more thing, scientists have found particles which seem to have sometimes complete random behavior. Now of course, maybe there is a deeper reason we have not discovered yet, but maybe there are particles which are just random, without any other reason than that. Just because we cannot imagine those particles doesn't mean they can't exist (evidence so far says they can).
 

DanDanikov

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Dec 28, 2008
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I love that armchair philosophy is a thing.

I don't think 'free' will fits the scientific model, nor do I think it holds up philosophically either. If you muddle about with semantics and using the right words, there are potentially satisfactory definitions for 'choice' and justifications for morality despite a lack of 'free' choice.

The idea of closing jails and not punishing criminals I feel is a well-beaten strawman in this argument- a lack of 'free' will may absolve an individual of ultimate responsibility, but it doesn't terminate the causal relationship between punishment and offence rates nor does it resolve the question of morality.