Friday Box-Office: Amazing Spider-Man 2 Drops Big in Second Weekend

RavenTail

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lacktheknack said:
RavenTail said:
This website covers movie related news in addition to video games and TV. This article is related to information about a movie. Not sure how this is so out of the ordinary for you unless it's just MovieBob you have a problem with.
I know they cover movie-related news. This isn't news by any stretch. See what I quoted from Marter.

Unless Bob starts reporting on EVERY Friday-to-Friday drop of a movie related to geek culture (which, so far, he has not), then it's painfully obvious that he's only reporting this one because he wants to make it look like it's majorly failing (again, it is not). Because vindictiveness.
It's news to me since I wasn't aware of how AMS2 was doing in ticket sales.

Bob is very passionate about Spider-Man and hates the way Sony is treating him. Can't really harp on the guy for getting upset about something he loves being dragged though the mud. Now you might disagree that Sony is dragging Spider-Man through the mud that is Bob's opinion and that is why he's working for The Escapist, for his opinion.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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lacktheknack said:
RavenTail said:
This website covers movie related news in addition to video games and TV. This article is related to information about a movie. Not sure how this is so out of the ordinary for you unless it's just MovieBob you have a problem with.
I know they cover movie-related news. This isn't news by any stretch. See what I quoted from Marter.

Unless Bob starts reporting on EVERY Friday-to-Friday drop of a movie related to geek culture (which, so far, he has not), then it's painfully obvious that he's only reporting this one because he wants to make it look like it's majorly failing (again, it is not). Because vindictiveness.
No, its because he's been hired to write movie articles. You haven't noticed the increase of movie articles? Check his profile. He's been posting full written articles every Monday, Tuesday, and Friday in addition to his two shows for months now. He's been writing news articles on movies and TV shows for weeks. He isn't doing this out of vindictiveness. Please check before spewing random nonsense.
 

lacktheknack

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xaszatm said:
lacktheknack said:
RavenTail said:
This website covers movie related news in addition to video games and TV. This article is related to information about a movie. Not sure how this is so out of the ordinary for you unless it's just MovieBob you have a problem with.
I know they cover movie-related news. This isn't news by any stretch. See what I quoted from Marter.

Unless Bob starts reporting on EVERY Friday-to-Friday drop of a movie related to geek culture (which, so far, he has not), then it's painfully obvious that he's only reporting this one because he wants to make it look like it's majorly failing (again, it is not). Because vindictiveness.
No, its because he's been hired to write movie articles. You haven't noticed the increase of movie articles? Check his profile. He's been posting full written articles every Monday, Tuesday, and Friday in addition to his two shows for months now. He's been writing news articles on movies and TV shows for weeks. He isn't doing this out of vindictiveness. Please check before spewing random nonsense.
Did you even read what I wrote? :mad:

I didn't say he's writing articles out of vindictiveness. I know he's the hired guy for movie news. I said he wrote THIS article out of vindictiveness.

Please read a post twice before trying to rip it down.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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lacktheknack said:
xaszatm said:
lacktheknack said:
RavenTail said:
This website covers movie related news in addition to video games and TV. This article is related to information about a movie. Not sure how this is so out of the ordinary for you unless it's just MovieBob you have a problem with.
I know they cover movie-related news. This isn't news by any stretch. See what I quoted from Marter.

Unless Bob starts reporting on EVERY Friday-to-Friday drop of a movie related to geek culture (which, so far, he has not), then it's painfully obvious that he's only reporting this one because he wants to make it look like it's majorly failing (again, it is not). Because vindictiveness.
No, its because he's been hired to write movie articles. You haven't noticed the increase of movie articles? Check his profile. He's been posting full written articles every Monday, Tuesday, and Friday in addition to his two shows for months now. He's been writing news articles on movies and TV shows for weeks. He isn't doing this out of vindictiveness. Please check before spewing random nonsense.
Did you even read what I wrote? :mad:

I didn't say he's writing articles out of vindictiveness. I know he's the hired guy for movie news. I said he wrote THIS article out of vindictiveness.

Please read a post twice before trying to rip it down.
You stated that this article was written out of vindictiveness because he hasn't been writing articles relating to geek movies. I've merely stated that he, in fact, HAS been writing plenty of articles like this one. Furthermore, where has he said that the movie was failing? He said that another movie was beating it in domestic box offices and that investors aren't probably too happy with its current non-game breaker status. Hell, he still says that the Amazing Spider-Man 2 will turn a profit. I think you're just seeing vindictiveness when it isn't there.
 

lacktheknack

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xaszatm said:
You stated that this article was written out of vindictiveness because he hasn't been writing articles relating to geek movies. I've merely stated that he, in fact, HAS been writing plenty of articles like this one. Furthermore, where has he said that the movie was failing? He said that another movie was beating it in domestic box offices and that investors aren't probably too happy with its current non-game breaker status. Hell, he still says that the Amazing Spider-Man 2 will turn a profit. I think you're just seeing vindictiveness when it isn't there.
Actually, what I said was:

lacktheknack said:
Unless Bob starts reporting on EVERY Friday-to-Friday drop of a movie related to geek culture (which, so far, he has not), then it's painfully obvious that he's only reporting this one because he wants to make it look like it's majorly failing (again, it is not). Because vindictiveness.
Has he written articles about other geek movies' Friday-to-Friday drops? Please, link me to them. I really hope he didn't, though, because that would be some of the most non-news material ever put in the News Room. Even if I didn't know that Bob has a hell of an axe to grind, I'd still question this being put in the News Room, because a large inital Friday-to-Friday drop means pretty much nothing (The Avengers had a 51% first-week drop, for instance, while The Fantastic four had a 58% drop... this says nothing about the quality or overall success of those respective films).
 

daibakuha

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lacktheknack said:
Has he written articles about other geek movies' Friday-to-Friday drops? Please, link me to them. I really hope he didn't, though, because that would be some of the most non-news material ever put in the News Room. Even if I didn't know that Bob has a hell of an axe to grind, I'd still question this being put in the News Room, because a large inital Friday-to-Friday drop means pretty much nothing (The Avengers had a 51% first-week drop, for instance, while The Fantastic four had a 58% drop... this says nothing about the quality or overall success of those respective films).
The problem with your weird, oddly specific complaint is that it ignores the the subject of the article itself and the context of the greater film industry.

Would they cover the friday-to-friday of any other movie coming out? Probably not, would they cover it if a movie from left field beats it a week after it comes out? You bet they would. This wasn't just covered here, and this site doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Even then, at the end of the day there's nothing really in the article about the quality of the movie itself, so your point is bad.
 

Sanunes

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Mar 18, 2011
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lacktheknack said:
Has he written articles about other geek movies' Friday-to-Friday drops? Please, link me to them. I really hope he didn't, though, because that would be some of the most non-news material ever put in the News Room. Even if I didn't know that Bob has a hell of an axe to grind, I'd still question this being put in the News Room, because a large inital Friday-to-Friday drop means pretty much nothing (The Avengers had a 51% first-week drop, for instance, while The Fantastic four had a 58% drop... this says nothing about the quality or overall success of those respective films).
The thing is that this is a new job for MovieBob at least from what I have seen, which he seems to be reporting other news about Television and Movies. I would think that if another that might interest the audience of The Escapist was in similar issues say Man of Steel it would be reported on the same way, but there hasn't been anything like that happen recently.

I don't think the intent behind the article was not to focus on the percentage drop for most movies drop 40%+ and I think the intent was to illustrate the movie might barely break even which might cause Sony to take the same approach Warner is doing with "Batman/Superman".
 

dyre

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Mar 30, 2011
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MovieBob said:
It hasn't broken even.

I probably ought've noted this in the news post itself (my mistake - when you read/report studio news long enough you forget not everyone is readily aware of certain "given" nuances of studio accounting math) but the rule of thumb by which movie studios operate is that a film hasn't broken even until it makes 3 times it's stated overall cost; and even then no one actually goes bragging about "profit" until the percentage is too far out in front to be anything but certain.

The number it needs to hit to be "even" has gone back and forth between $750 and as high as $800 million (Hollywood accounting is designed to make sure you can always look like you did well but not well enough for underlings to expect raises) but they'll likely settle around $750 mil now that it looks like it won't get much higher than that ($755 is the guess over at Deadline, but it'll either go up or down depending on what happens when Godzilla hits in a week.)
Could you go into some more detail (or recommend where I can find more detail) about this? I'm not an expert accountant, but everything I've learned from accounting indicates that if your project has a net present value of zero, then you've broken even. Obviously the "time value of money" principle says that making a dollar today doesn't make up for spending a dollar two years ago, but the discount rates they'd have to use to require 300% return to break even would be through the roof.
 

PuckFuppet

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dyre said:
everything I've learned from accounting indicates that if your project has a net present value of zero, then you've broken even
I might just confuse the situation more with this answer, so feel free to move on.

1. Hollywood doesn't do math, or in this specific case accounting. It does what it says is accounting and what it can prove is accounting for tax purposes but almost every production coming out a major studio is wrapped in such a byzantine blanket of unpredictable expenses and outsourcing that the production company itself often won't know how much money it has actually spent for almost a year or two later, maybe even more.

Rather than seeing this problem fade away as your production gets a larger budget, the logic being that with more money being spent there is more accountability :)D) for that money, it actually increases dramatically because of the size of the production warranted by your now 8-9 figure budget. This is why the film industry generally uses the term "budget" instead of the term "cost". I can think of too many instances where a budget has been steadily revised upward as the production continues, often just to catch up or be within a few million of what was actually spent. It suffices to say, Hollywood doesn't do math.

2. Hollywood likes contracts. They are an absolute in all matters from what kind of shower facilities people get access to on set to the kind of shoes they can wear at events. That said these contracts rarely do much in the way of helping to track money, particularly when you have four or five different small digital studios doing post-effects work largely contracted by a primary company that you actually hold the contract with, who themselves have a contract that includes plenty of monetary leeway without actually allowing that kind of money to filter down to anyone outside of management :)D).

The problem with this is that often contracts result in very strange expenses. I heard tell once of an actor who, by right of their contract, was entitled to coffee house quality coffee. Anytime. Anywhere. On a production that'd take said actor to several international locations. So they had the catering company hire three baristas to work in round the clock shifts, shipping the necessary equipment and consumables with the set.

Who paid for this? Fuck knows. The catering company didn't, so likely someone high up in the production picked it up, who'd charge it to the company, who'd pay him then check the contract, then get the money from the budget. Maybe.

3. Hollywood likes advertising. Often another company, separate to the production, will be hired to manage advertising. That company would then subcontract with advertising companies across the globe, who would in turn do work with local companies, to get the advertising they wanted out. The full cost of which might not reach the clients, the production company, books for almost a year or maybe more depending on how far flung the advertising went.

This is all before you consider that often advertisers will get specific directions from producers regarding certain material etc., the extra cost of which couldn't be initially accounted for.


---------------

Almost all of this is subject to deliberate manipulation on every level to keep expectations in range without scaring any investors with things like cost projections. With a fight happening between the companies at the end of the line who want to get paid and the people interacting with investors and "industry analysts" who want to look like they've hit jackpot.

Bottom line, Hollywood accounting is witchcraft.
 

dyre

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PuckFuppet said:
dyre said:
big snip
Hmm, okay, thanks for the explanation. So basically when they announce costs, they make up some bullshit number that's actually way lower than the reality (after all the contracts are satisfied), to keep investors happy? That sounds ridiculously inefficient at best and downright unethical at worst. These morons seriously need to hire some management consultants...
 

PuckFuppet

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dyre said:
PuckFuppet said:
dyre said:
big snip
Hmm, okay, thanks for the explanation. So basically when they announce costs, they make up some bullshit number that's actually way lower than the reality (after all the contracts are satisfied), to keep investors happy? That sounds ridiculously inefficient at best and downright unethical at worst. These morons seriously need to hire some management consultants...
Welcome to Hollywood!
 

faefrost

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Akichi Daikashima said:
I'm not sure if it was a good idea to give Bob the reins over the TV & Movies section of the Escapist's news XD

I am bit afraid that he might turn into a supervillain by the end of the TASM2 ordeal.
He's not one now? You mean that isn't some horrible mask to cover the burns and scars?... Oh
 

faefrost

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ExtraDebit said:
I remembered when I was a kid and reading comics, what matter to me most then was the hero got an attractive costume and awesome power and spider-man met all my criteria.

As I grow older I realized that Peter Parker is a very shallow, inconsistent and illogical concept as a character. Case in point the superior spiderman, THAT is what a realistic and interesting Spider-man without a mask should be, and when Peter Parker returned you know what he did? He acted like an irresponsible child and swing around the city looking for petty crimes when the company Doc Ock setup for him is in trouble.

All those talk about power and responsibility seems hypocritical when there are people under your employment depends on you, a company that can do so much good for the world depends on you but you out fighting petty crimes. It seems that Peter Parker can't see that a seat belt can save more lives than stopping a robbery. Maybe Bob was right and these things really are for kids and I'm out growing it.
That's always been my problem with Peter Parker in the comics, TV Shows and especially the movies. He's always this broke starving put upon shlub. In 50 years of comics, noone, certainly not his friendly geniuses Reed Richards or Tony Stark (both of whom he worked for as a scientist) bothered to point out to him that his self invented webbing could change the world, save hundreds of thousands of lives, and make him a Billionaire on par with stark? never mind the spider powers and fancy pajamas and hitting crooks. The webbing, an aerosolized temporary super elastic substance that is strong enough to stop a plane, fire proof, instantly deploy-able and eminently man portable. It can be used to evacuate skyscappers in the even of fire. As an emergency crash barrier for planes. as the ultimate non lethal, non harmful subdual device for Police and Law Enforcement. Not to mention its properties as an emergency fire barrier. Billions $$$. But no the best anyone has ever offered him is a paycheck. And just think how many lives could be saved giving every cop a web shooter rather than Spidey's do it yourself one bad guy at a time approach?
 

Ashley Blalock

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Zato-1 said:
Jasper van Heycop said:
008Zulu said:
Amazing Spiderman 2 budget; $330 million. Projected gross; $424 million.
(figures include advertising)
.
So it already turned a profit, while still having several weeks to go in theaters? What is all this doomsaying about then?

From the way some people (including Moviebob) are wording this you'd think it didn't even break even.
When Gamestop sells a copy of Titanfall, EA doesn't get the full 60 bucks from the sale- they get a cut of it. Similarly, when a cinema sells a ticket for The Amazing Spider-Man 2 for 10 bucks, Sony doesn't get the full amount, just a cut. Therefore, if costs were $330 million and gross sales are close to that number, Sony would almost certainly lose money with the movie (and that's before even considering financing costs), so it's relevant to include break-even gross sales points for Sony.
The take for the studio is even worse for showings outside of the US so while the numbers sound really good the studio is only getting a cut of those numbers. i09 has a really good bit on films and profits http://io9.com/5747305/how-much-money-does-a-movie-need-to-make-to-be-profitable . For those who don't want to read the whole article the studio only gets about 40% of the take outside the US and after expenses they usually only end up with about 15% of that take.
 

tyriless

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I am glad to see your Moviebob's review has been more and more vindicated. Thanks for steering me away from the sequel. I thought the original film was a contrived mess, but I was hoping without the needless origin story ASM 2 would fair better. I can't always trust your recommendations, but when you are spot on when you point out something that isn't right with the film you review.