Fullmetal Alchemist Live Action Movie Casting

[Vausch]

So, does anyone else feel that most anime characters, who frequently are supposed to be Japanese people...don't actually really look Japanese? Not just this lineup, but overall. Most animes I've watched, the characters look westernized/anglo-saxonized to hell and back. Natural hair colors that simply don't occur in Japanese genomes (as far as I've ever seen). Body types and facial structures that look distinctly caucasian or european in nature. And yet, they're all Japanese, and then fans lose their shit when they pick actors who aren't Japanese...to play a character that frequently doesn't even look Japanese in the original work!

Acteally, most Japanese do see them as Japanese, its just the artstyle.

But don't ask me how it works, its just different perceptions,

 

[Saelune]

So, does anyone else feel that most anime characters, who frequently are supposed to be Japanese people...don't actually really look Japanese? Not just this lineup, but overall. Most animes I've watched, the characters look westernized/anglo-saxonized to hell and back. Natural hair colors that simply don't occur in Japanese genomes (as far as I've ever seen). Body types and facial structures that look distinctly caucasian or european in nature. And yet, they're all Japanese, and then fans lose their shit when they pick actors who aren't Japanese...to play a character that frequently doesn't even look Japanese in the original work!

I just, don't get it. Does anyone else see that trend for most of the art style, and can perhaps actually explain why their all Japanese cast of characters, look like every type of human out there...except the Japanese?

I mean if the setting is actually based in some European equivalent culture, then fine, but even when they are in locations predominantly Japanese in culture, like you know...JAPAN, the characters drawn by Japanese artists, to represent Japanese people, don't come across as actually being Japanese in appearance.

Cause Japanese people generally dislike the lack of natural variety in their appearance. Plus anime was directly influenced by Disney which didn't have everyone with the same hair and skin, and then it just became a kind of standard.

Asian people find non Asian people just as exotically appealing as we do with them.

I also think a lot of western anime fans like the varied colors too. I know I do. Pink/Purple/Blue hair > Brown/black hair.

 

[Derekloffin]

Have no real issue with it, but then again I have no real issue with GITS casting either so... yeah. Is it rather silly, sure, but its a Japanese movie. I'm not shocked. Practicality just forces the issue for such, and much could and has been said the same of GITS.

That said I also have no faith in it either... just like GITS. That has nothing really to do with the casting in either case. Anime live action adaptations I rarely ever find are decent let alone good so playing the odds, not optimistic for either one.

 

[Zontar]

OT: Unlike Ghost in the Shell, Japan has the very legitimate excuse of not having any white actors to cast, while America doesn't really have the excuse of having no Japanese actors.

Nope, the US has only 0.2% of its population who are Japanese American, while Japan has about 0.3% of its population who are white. If anything Japan has less of an excuse then the US.

 

[Erttheking]

OT: Unlike Ghost in the Shell, Japan has the very legitimate excuse of not having any white actors to cast, while America doesn't really have the excuse of having no Japanese actors.

Nope, the US has only 0.2% of its population who are Japanese American, while Japan has about 0.3% of its population who are white. If anything Japan has less of an excuse then the US.

Oh...and question. How many of that 0.3% are actors? Because I was talking about actors. I said actors twice. I wasn't talking about total population. We've got Japanese actors. Japan doesn't have white actors.

Please read my post next time.

 

[Denamic]

Japanese IP, Japanese studio, Japanese actors, made in Japan. It's understandable, but it doesn't really fit the characters, at least on a purely physical level. I'll reserve final judgement until I see it, but I don't have very high hopes. Rarely do with live action adaptations of animated series anyway, but still. I'm not exactly on the edge of my seat in anticipation.

 

[Zontar]

Oh...and question. How many of that 0.3% are actors? Because I was talking about actors. I said actors twice. I wasn't talking about total population. We've got Japanese actors. Japan doesn't have white actors.

Japan doesn't have white actors? Then I suppose those people playing foreigners I've seen in movies and shows from Japan where using an impressive amount of makeup.

Also, do you have any sources on Japanese Americans having a massive level of overrepresentation in the entertainment industry?

 

[Erttheking]

Oh...and question. How many of that 0.3% are actors? Because I was talking about actors. I said actors twice. I wasn't talking about total population. We've got Japanese actors. Japan doesn't have white actors.

Japan doesn't have white actors? Then I suppose those people playing foreigners I've seen in movies and shows from Japan where using an impressive amount of makeup.

Also, do you have any sources on Japanese Americans having a massive level of overrepresentation in the entertainment industry?

Oh, ok then. How many of them are there exactly? Because I don't really hear much about white people moving to Japan to star in the movie industry there. Because I took a quick look around and the only source I could find was someone asking if she could act in Japan, only for people to comment that white actors at A. very rare and B. not in demand.

Zontar, we've been over this. If a person is only .3% of a country but makes up 5% of media characters...I really couldn't give less of a fuck. I have no idea why it's such a big deal to you that you bring it up in conversation with me more than once, but to me its something barely worth noting. I mean, white males represent more than the population they represent but no one gives a damn about that. So in conclusion, maybe Japanese Americans are over represented. Maybe they aren't. I don't fucking care.

 

[Zontar]

I have no idea why it's such a big deal to you that you bring it up in conversation with me more than once, but to me its something barely worth noting.

It's because the core of the entire argument has its basis in the under-representation of Japanese Americans in media. Or at least, that's about 90% of the basis I've seen used for it in online discourse.

 

[Erttheking]

I have no idea why it's such a big deal to you that you bring it up in conversation with me more than once, but to me its something barely worth noting.

It's because the core of the entire argument has its basis in the under-representation of Japanese Americans in media. Or at least, that's about 90% of the basis I've seen used for it in online discourse.

Are you going to answer my question about white actors in Japan? It didn't go away just because you didn't quote it.

And I never held that argument. My argument was "Have an iconic Japanese character be Japanese." And even then, that argument would only work if every single character was American. Films, books and video games tend to cover other nationalities.

 

[hermes]

OT: Unlike Ghost in the Shell, Japan has the very legitimate excuse of not having any white actors to cast, while America doesn't really have the excuse of having no Japanese actors.

Nope, the US has only 0.2% of its population who are Japanese American, while Japan has about 0.3% of its population who are white. If anything Japan has less of an excuse then the US.

Oh...and question. How many of that 0.3% are actors? Because I was talking about actors. I said actors twice. I wasn't talking about total population. We've got Japanese actors. Japan doesn't have white actors.

Please read my post next time.

To be fair, Hollywood has few Japanese actors, what it has are resources to attract Japanese actors to travel to America, learn some English and play a role there... which is something the Japanese industry could manage to afford. Not that hard at a time when plane ticket are not above the budget of a movie... even Mike Tyson got to play in Chinese movies that way. They don't even have to do it for all the characters, just the ones that being mixed race was a plot point.

Then again, I understand the logic behind choosing Japanese actors to appeal to the audience, as I understand the logic behind GitS... because they are the same logic.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

True, but like I said a little while back, white actors aren't really looking to head to Japan. There's just not that much money there. Not as much draw. Heck, the Chinese movie industry is the one I hear is really taking off.

Then again I'd be less pissed about this whole ordeal if Hollywood would just be honest about wanting to ride Scarlet's name. But they'll never do that, even though everyone knows it. Kind of like what John Oliver said one time. "You said that thing everyone knows but no one was supposed to say out loud. It's like naming the comeback tour 'we ran out of money."

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Welp, I think this shows the perfect issue with the whole thing... Both this and the US Ghost in the Shell movies are being produced in the wrong freaking countries. Although if there was an FMA movie being produced in the US, they'd probably try to make it all A-List actors, which is honestly why GitS got whitewashed to begin with... The result of that would mean that a live FMA production in the US wouldn't have any actors who fit the roles in the correct parts.

 

[hermes]

Snip

True, but like I said a little while back, white actors aren't really looking to head to Japan. There's just not that much money there. Not as much draw. Heck, the Chinese movie industry is the one I hear is really taking off.

In fact, your point was the oposite. It is not that actors are not willing to go there for a quick gig, or even create a career overseas (heck, so many actors are trying to break out of the 95 percentile of Hollywood, they would straight out move there if needed), it is that they are not wanted there, there is no demand for them. And honestly, in the current world we are living, I don't buy the idea that actors elegible for a role are only those in the country of the production company, like overseas casting is not something movie studios do constantly (if they care for it).

But what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I can't bother to care if American producers want to cast an American movie with an American actress to appeal to their market regardless of the source material, when Japanese producers are doing the exact same thing for their own market.

 

[Zontar]

Are you going to answer my question about white actors in Japan? It didn't go away just because you didn't quote it.

Just like to the question of how many Japanese Americans are in the acting industry, to that question I don't know. I just know that there are Japanese movies and shows who use white actors, pretty much always as foreigners who are either on vacation, part of the US military or doing some business with locals.

And I never held that argument. My argument was "Have an iconic Japanese character be Japanese." And even then, that argument would only work if every single character was American. Films, books and video games tend to cover other nationalities.

But that's just the problem in that case, the Major's nationality has never been confirmed to be Japanese. The only things we know about her for sure is that she's a women, she was in a plane crash at age 6, her name is not her real one and of the four nations she is possibly from one of them is Japan (with the other three being the American Empire, the Russo-American Alliance and what's left of the United States of America). Given that and the fact that her national identity has no connection to her story (hell at least 3 of her unit's members are not even from Japan) and the fact the setting makes her able to justify looking like literally anyone, it gets to the point where the complains using the story as a justification fall pretty flat.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Oh sure, they exist, but from what I can tell they're pretty rare and there isn't a demand for them. Also apparently they're used to play stereotypes.

Even if we're going to pull that argument, I think we can at the very least agree that she wasn't freaking white. Even if Motoko Kusanagi isn't her real name, I don't think a white person would try to pass themselves off with a fake name that's obviously Asian. Her national identity doesn't matter, sure. The thing about Ghost in the Shell is, as I understand it, is that it's very much a Japanese story. It was written when Japan was the tech giant of the world, and that's a heavy part of the story from what I've been told.

Then again for all this dancing around, let's not pretend that Hollywood executives took any of this into consideration. We all know they just wanted a high profile actor. Her being able look like whoever she wants just seems to be a very convenient excuse for lazy casting. And this isn't without getting into how white everyone else is in this movie. They got one person who was actually Asian I think. Oh wait two. And this new person I just found out about raises a question.

If Mokoto isn't supposed to be Japanese, why is her mother being played by a Japanese woman in this film?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/japanese-star-kaori-momoi-to-play-mother-of-johanssons-ghost-in-the-shell-character

(Though they gave the role of a very Japanese sounding character to a black guy. I guess that's something)

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Huh. Well that's goddamn stupid. Just goes I show I guess. No matter what color their skin, human beings are goddamn morons.

 

[Zontar]

Oh sure, they exist, but from what I can tell they're pretty rare and there isn't a demand for them. Also apparently they're used to play stereotypes.

That sounds oddly familiar.

Even if Motoko Kusanagi isn't her real name, I don't think a white person would try to pass themselves off with a fake name that's obviously Asian.

Why's that? I'm not saying she is white, she's probably not, but we have seen people change their names and use appearance changing products to appear like they are a different race. In a world where people can look like absolutely anyone they want, there is going to be a 100% chance that a group (perhaps even a subculture) of people who use that technology to change their ethnicity will come about. Weebs and Westaboos pretty much assure that Japanese and Americans will have some of their nationals will change to look like the other.

The thing about Ghost in the Shell is, as I understand it, is that it's very much a Japanese story. It was written when Japan was the tech giant of the world, and that's a heavy part of the story from what I've been told.

It's more a Japanese interpretation of elements of Western science fiction, Blade Runner/Do Androids Dream of Robot Sheep in particular. Though then again Japan and America taking fiction from the other and reinventing it as its own is something that's almost as old as cinema itself.

Then again for all this dancing around, let's not pretend that Hollywood executives took any of this into consideration. We all know they just wanted a high profile actor. Her being able look like whoever she wants just seems to be a very convenient excuse for lazy casting.

I don't know how casting a big name actress for a role that needs big names to have a chance of being profitable, where said actress actually does somewhat resemble the character in question despite being animated and of a different race, can be called lazy. It's frankly about as rational as one can get.

If Mokoto isn't supposed to be Japanese, why is her mother being played by a Japanese woman in this film?

(Though they gave the role of a very Japanese sounding character to a black guy. I guess that's something)

There is such a thing as mixed race people (hell many actors would surprise people given their origins) but that ignores the point of the setting allowing one to look like literally anyone they want to, which itself rationalizes any possible disconnection between character appearances and their source material origins so long as they're full body cyborgs. I know if I had a completely different body where I could choose how I look things would be quite different. Not crossing the race line but I know many people would choose to do so.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

I'm sorry, there's no demand in America for Japanese actors? Are you honestly trying to tell me that the people who are angry about the Major being played by a white woman didn't want a Japanese actor?

From my experience, people use fake names so that people don't ask questions about their real names. To not draw attention to themselves. Having a name that clearly isn't your real name defeats the purpose of that. If she's using a fake name, then the logical thing to do would be to change her name to something that actually matches her appearance. Otherwise, what's the bloody point?

Yes. A Japanese take on all of those things. Kind of like how Fist of the North Star was a Japanese take on Road Warrior and Metroid was a Japanese take on Alien. The end result is still undeniably Japanese. If they were making another Blade Runner film I wouldn't be asking for a Japanese main character. If they were making a film based on Ghost in the Shell I wouldn't be asking for a Japanese main character (worked just fine for Edge of Tomorrow) but they took a Japanese film, kept the name, kept the character, and took out the nationality. Why?

If you only care about making money and don't care how good the film is, which seems to be the norm for Hollywood executives. I'm not saying they shouldn't, but as a moviegoer my main concerns are with quality.

I'm well aware of that, except Scarlet is as white as they come. But that's missing the point, at the end of the day the film seems to be saying that Japan seems to be where her origins are, which makes her having the appearance of a white person...clashing. Also, yes, she COULD take on the appearance of a white person. From what I understand though, foreigners in the Japan of Ghost in the Shell are mainly associated with refugees and refugee camps. Taking on that appearance just feels like it doesn't mesh with the world. Or in short, "She could, why the hell would she?"

 

[hermes]

Oh sure, they exist, but from what I can tell they're pretty rare and there isn't a demand for them. Also apparently they're used to play stereotypes.

And you hit the nail on the head with that one. That is what racism in Hollywood is about too.

At least the west seems to be getting better at this since the 80s. We can reasonably argue it is because of financial reasons instead of "we just don't know any Asian, so lets take Jerry Lewis and give him bad makeup..."

Then again for all this dancing around, let's not pretend that Hollywood executives took any of this into consideration. We all know they just wanted a high profile actor.

I completely agree.

There is nothing in this move other than riding on the name of the highest grossing actress at the moment [http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/scarlett-johansson-highest-grossing-actress-of-all-time-hollywood-1201806951/]. That makes the decision almost obvious. If the title belonged to an Asian woman, they could have saved a lot of face value while also being absolutely pragmatic. In the subject of not dancing around the subject, that is also the reason why the Japanese producers decided to cast a Japanese pop singer as a character named "Edward Elric". Even the director admitted to the dissonance:

I want to depict something that follows the original work as much as possible... The cast is entirely Japanese, but the setting is Europe.