Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[Agema]

The Democratic Party actively changed its immigration policies to attack Trump

Not really. In the broader picture the Democrats ran a sort of "middling" immigration policy under Obama, and continued a sort of "middling" policy under Biden, later moving to more restrictive pattern in later Biden in response to increasing public concern.

You, as I've told you many times, also determine your position on current events relative to spiting Trump.

Sure, you say so, but you also manufacture a lot of these claims you level at other people.

Of course, it's not like your own inconsistencies and hypocrisies haven't been pointed out many times as well, which you remain steadfastly quiet about. In a sense, it's not so big a deal to have some inconsistencies, because it's extremely hard to have none. But even still, you manufacture plenty of what you accuse others of. And when they point out how you have misinterpreted or misrepresented them, basically you just don't listen to them.

Trump's cabinet is seriously going about the business of running the government.

Goodness me, that was unfortunate to write just before the Trump cabinet accidentally let a journalist in on their secret comms.

I don't doubt that the Trump cabinet is serious about running the country. The problem is more that they are probably careless, authoritarian and incompetent.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

So to be clear, you don't think it counts if the administration breaks a court order, they have to break the same court order multiple times for it to count?

Can the goalposts get any narrower, any further away from where they started?

Planes were out of the country already...

If they didn't care about the court order like you all claim, they would still be ignoring the court order...

Ah, now it makes sense, an attempted coup is ok, it's just the next 2 or 3 that's the problem.

And removing 2 of the top presidential candidates from ballots is democratic?

 

[Silvanus]

Planes were out of the country already...

So? They were ordered to return.

If they didn't care about the court order like you all claim, they would still be ignoring the court order...

If they cared about it, they wouldn't have broken it.

 

[Trunkage]

I asked you to provide evidence that outside of the plane kerfuffle, is Trump/ICE still deporting people that the judge ordered to not be deported? And you have no answer for that.

Right at this moment? No.

Doesn't really have any bearing on whether they are? Not really. They have already broken the law and constitution. If they want us to trust them, doing something trust worthy

 

[Trunkage]

So? They were ordered to return.

In the 1930s, Australia we had an Anti-Communist law. There was a group of thirty immigrants and one was Argentine. They deported ALL of them to Argentina via boat. They didn't show proof that they were communist or broken a law. Argentina flat out rejected and yelled at the UK. Meanwhile the boat went to it's next destination in the US. Three seperate government yelled at Australia for trumped up charges, we obviously had to take them back and change our laws

It's fascinating how some people think they can break laws and traditions

If they cared about it, they wouldn't have broken it.

Its really stupid. How about deporting them to their own country? What are we even doing here?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

So? They were ordered to return.



If they cared about it, they wouldn't have broken it.

The legality of that is up in the air IIRC.

You do realize that just because a judge says something doesn't mean it immediately gets through all the channels and gets applied.

Doesn't really have any bearing on whether they are? Not really. They have already broken the law and constitution. If they want us to trust them, doing something trust worthy

So did the fucking democrats...

 

[Silvanus]

The legality of that is up in the air IIRC.

? No. US law applies to American government-chartered flights. What, you think as soon as a flight isn't over America anymore, the law doesn't apply to those American pilots and American planes doing American gov work?

You do realize that just because a judge says something doesn't mean it immediately gets through all the channels and gets applied.

It was specifically an order for immediate action, which the court had the authority to order.

So did the fucking democrats...

"Wah but the democrats", this is all you do.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

? No. US law applies to American government-chartered flights. What, you think as soon as a flight isn't over America anymore, the law doesn't apply to those American pilots and American planes doing American gov work?



It was specifically an order for immediate action, which the court had the authority to order.



"Wah but the democrats", this is all you do.

I didn't say the court didn't have authority, I said orders just don't immediately get process through all agencies/employees/channels immediately.

They're both basically the same party yet you guys give democrats unlimited passes for the same shit. I don't need you to convince me the republicans do bad shit, you need to convince me they are meaningfully worse than the democrats.

 

[Silvanus]

I didn't say the court didn't have authority, I said orders just don't immediately get process through all agencies/employees/channels immediately.

Riiiight, except this was explicitly an order for immediate action. Yes, it lawfully had to be carried out.

They're both basically the same party yet you guys give democrats unlimited passes for the same shit.

Buddy, I'm constantly shitting on the Democrats. Tstorm recently tried the same canard, accusing me of never being critical, and I provided a laundry list of about 20 times I'd condemned them in pretty damning terms. And those were just the recent ones, the tip of the iceberg. You don't pay attention.

You, on the other hand, reliably leap to deflect from any criticism of Republicans.

 

[Trunkage]

So did the fucking democrats...

Who's meant to be the party of 'law and order' and 'tradtion'? I'm pretty sure the Dems aren't

Where are they now?

 

[Trunkage]

Buddy, I'm constantly shitting on the Democrats. Tstorm recently tried the same canard, accusing me of never being critical, and I provided a laundry list of about 20 times I'd condemned them in pretty damning terms. And those were just the recent ones, the tip of the iceberg. You don't pay attention.

You, on the other hand, reliably leap to deflect from any criticism of Republicans.

Do you know what the funny thing is:

Phoenixmgs claims that they aren't a Trump voter but always defends them. He claims he has criticisms but clearly picks Trump over the Dems

But cannot understand that you would pick the Dems over Trump even if you don't like the Dems

Astonishing

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Riiiight, except this was explicitly an order for immediate action. Yes, it lawfully had to be carried out.



Buddy, I'm constantly shitting on the Democrats. Tstorm recently tried the same canard, accusing me of never being critical, and I provided a laundry list of about 20 times I'd condemned them in pretty damning terms. And those were just the recent ones, the tip of the iceberg. You don't pay attention.

You, on the other hand, reliably leap to deflect from any criticism of Republicans.

I'm not gonna give someone shit for not abiding to an order literally minutes after it was ordered. You guys (not specifically you I don't think) posted an article saying Trump and Co. would ignore the order, and I'm not finding that is actually true when the only time you can even claim they ignored the order was minutes afterward.

Are you claiming that this board in general isn't heavily biased towards the democrats?

Who's meant to be the party of 'law and order' and 'tradtion'? I'm pretty sure the Dems aren't

Where are they now?

For policies that 80% of the population isn't for.

Do you know what the funny thing is:

Phoenixmgs claims that they aren't a Trump voter but always defends them. He claims he has criticisms but clearly picks Trump over the Dems

But cannot understand that you would pick the Dems over Trump even if you don't like the Dems

Astonishing

I voted for Chase Oliver. If I had to pick between just Trump and Kamala, I probably would've picked Trump. They are both horrible candidates mind you (it's essentially who's best of the worst), I don't get why anyone would vote for either. You all act like one is far worse than the other when that's not true.

 

[Silvanus]

I'm not gonna give someone shit for not abiding to an order literally minutes after it was ordered.

Right, so you're just saying you don't care if a legal order was ignored. We all knew that anyway.

Are you claiming that this board in general isn't heavily biased towards the democrats?

This board generally certainly prefers the Dems to the Republicans. Most members of this board also frequently criticise the Dems.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Right, so you're just saying you don't care if a legal order was ignored. We all knew that anyway.



This board generally certainly prefers the Dems to the Republicans. Most members of this board also frequently criticise the Dems.

I don't know if it was. It takes time to get from the judge all the way to the pilot. That's why I'm not gonna assume such things in such a short time frame.

This board is so left leaning, you all were complaining about a guy getting handcuffed only because it was a story the left media pushed.

 

[Silvanus]

I don't know if it was. It takes time to get from the judge all the way to the pilot. That's why I'm not gonna assume such things in such a short time frame.

!?! We live in a world of near-instantaneous communication. Government agencies are able to communicate instantly with government pilots doing government work on government planes.

This board is so left leaning, you all were complaining about a guy getting handcuffed only because it was a story the left media pushed.

Ah, so you've stopped talking about being biased towards the dems now, and shifted to "left leaning". Because of course those aren't the same thing-- and in many ways they're opposed.

Yes, I care about people being arbitrarily detained, because i care generally about state/police abuse and repression. The right to go about your business without being arbitrarily detained used to be a bipartisan consideration. But you've spent the last half dozen posts arguing that if the subject isn't a US citizen, they deserve less protection, and it matters less if they're detained for two full weeks without charge.

The Republicans are the ones who've gone off the deep end into far-right territory, endorsing the arrest and detainment of people who disagree or protest, and you're busy moaning that we... object to it too much.

 

[Agema]

!?! We live in a world of near-instantaneous communication. Government agencies are able to communicate instantly with government pilots doing government work on government planes.

In theory.

However, it may be that person A has to report to person B has to report to person C has to report to person D has to report to person E. At any of these points, it is possible someone's already on a call, on the toilet, at lunch etc. when the communication comes in. And maybe they need to check some things before they report on. And maybe they stop for some pleasantries on the call itself, etc. Delays can mount up.

To be cynical, however, this could also be deployed as a bullshit excuse for not taking action in good time, when it could have been done. It would probably be bullshit that's very hard to prove as dishonest.

 

[Silvanus]

In theory.

However, it may be that person A has to report to person B has to report to person C has to report to person D has to report to person E. At any of these points, it is possible someone's already on a call, on the toilet, at lunch etc. when the communication comes in. And maybe they need to check some things before they report on. And maybe they stop for some pleasantries on the call itself, etc. Delays can mount up.

To be cynical, however, this could also be deployed as a bullshit excuse for not taking action in good time, when it could have been done. It would probably be bullshit that's very hard to prove as dishonest.

Well, ok, chalk that up. But the first flight arrived in El Salvador 1 hour 15 mins after the order to return, and the second flight arrived 5 hours 20 mins after the order. I simply don't believe that an American gov agency, in receipt of an order to do something immediately, was incapable of reaching their own staff who were active and on the job within 5 hours. I don't even believe the 1 hour.

 

[Gordon_4]

I don't even believe the 1 hour.

The one hour is entirely believable when dealing with large organisations and government departments of sufficient size. Communication may be instantaneous but action generally isn’t.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

!?! We live in a world of near-instantaneous communication. Government agencies are able to communicate instantly with government pilots doing government work on government planes.



Ah, so you've stopped talking about being biased towards the dems now, and shifted to "left leaning". Because of course those aren't the same thing-- and in many ways they're opposed.

Yes, I care about people being arbitrarily detained, because i care generally about state/police abuse and repression. The right to go about your business without being arbitrarily detained used to be a bipartisan consideration. But you've spent the last half dozen posts arguing that if the subject isn't a US citizen, they deserve less protection, and it matters less if they're detained for two full weeks without charge.

The Republicans are the ones who've gone off the deep end into far-right territory, endorsing the arrest and detainment of people who disagree or protest, and you're busy moaning that we... object to it too much.

Do you not work in the real world and don't understand how the average person works?

I used them interchangeably... (same as the media bias ratings). I just said US citizens have more rights because they do. I didn't say non US citizens should have their rights ignored. I agreed with you with most of the articles you posted. Funny how you only come to the defense of people when it's the right that's doing vs when it's the left.

 

[Silvanus]

Do you not work in the real world and don't understand how the average person works?

Indeed I do. I've also worked in large organisations with numerous departments, sometimes quite distantly separated. I also know how to use telephones and radios.

I used them interchangeably... (same as the media bias ratings). I just said US citizens have more rights because they do. I didn't say non US citizens should have their rights ignored.

But the right we're actually talking about is one that both groups are supposed to have protected. Yet you apparently believe it matters a lot less if one group has that right infringed, to the point where 2 weeks of arbitrary detention isn't as bad as 1 night.