Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Silvanus

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Yes, they do.
Then you haven't comprehended it at all.

Those sections state that the fifth circuit must resolve how much notice is due, and the likelihood of success for habeas petitions for these people.

Elsewhere it states that AEA detainees must be given enough notice to be heard, and to be able to file for habeas. This is not in dispute. This is not relegated to a future decision in the fifth circuit. It is definitively stated as fact. You have no leg to stand on here.
 

Agema

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and for Trump to manipulate the White South Africans into joining his country to increase the US's economic strength. Ramaphosa is an idiot or corrupt, but not as much as Sheinbaum of Mexico, who lets the cartels run her country for her in say farming avocados.
Given that the GDP/capita in South Africa is about a tenth of the USA, bear in mind that a rich man in Africa is very possibly not a rich man in the USA. The USA might be importing little more than a handful of bitter, racist, middle-income, middle-aged farmers. And when they see how quickly their money evaporates in a country with much higher living expenses, they might be heading back out soon enough.
 
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XsjadoBlaydette

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should probably try repeating that those fast-tracked white south Africans are not only not farmers (calling them farmers is accepting the white supremacist's conspiracy theory "white genocide" framing being used to justify this mis/underreported attempt to placate militant south African groups) but also these migrations were not part of the original demands from aforementioned militant south African groups, cos they wanted trump to deliver weapons and money so they could remain in south Africa and carve out their new ethnostate plans. I am astounded at how much context is being stripped, ignored or missed by the news around this, it's almost like they want it as much as they want the Gaza genocide going unhindered and uncriticised/protested

not sure what, if any medium would be more likely to be accepted for this, but if anyone interested in learning more;

At the end of this miniseries about white supremacist terrorism in the final years of apartheid in South Africa, this episode returns to the present day as white South Africans are lining up outside the embassy in Pretoria to claim refugee status under Trump's executive order.

Sources:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-fo...-south-africans-seek-resettlement-2025-04-24/

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ikaner-donald-trump-america-us-administration

https://www.dw.com/en/us-diplomat-ejected-from-new-zealand-after-mysterious-incident/a-38016563

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parlia...earch/FlagPost/2022/May/diplomatic-expulsions

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/24/australia-expels-israeli-diplomat

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59023465

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/world/americas/06ecuador.html

https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/05/29/so-how-do-you-expel-an-ambassador-anyway/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presiden...ious-actions-of-the-republic-of-south-africa/

https://rollcall.com/factbase/trump/topic/social/

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/pool-reports-february-2-2025

https://rollcall.com/factbase/trump...ter-air-force-one-arrival-february-2-2025/#15

https://rollcall.com/factbase/trump/topic/calendar/

https://www.reuters.com/world/afric...e-group-treason-over-trump-attack-2025-02-10/

https://www.enca.com/news-top-stories/ramaphosa-slams-afriforum-solidarity

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2025-02-13-apartheid-stratcom-agents-trump-edwin-feulner/

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...uth-africa-whites-only-town-orania-is-booming

https://www.reuters.com/world/afric...sts-want-trumps-help-become-state-2025-04-03/

https://laist.com/news/food/milky-way-kosher-restaurant-reopens-steven-spielbergs-mom-la-legendary

https://iol.co.za/news/politics/202...-vows-to-block-white-supremacist-appointment/

https://www.biznews.com/interviews/2025/02/27/us-ramaphosa-financial-sanction-anc-joel-pollak

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...e-even-more-conservative-than-me-joel-pollak/

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/23/africa/south-african-ambassador-ebrahim-rasool-intl/index.html

https://mistra.org.za/wp-content/up...dministration-for-South-Africa-and-Africa.pdf

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2025-03-18-rasool-diplomacy-and-global-power/

https://www.sajr.co.za/rasools-expulsion-a-crisis-not-a-hiccup/

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/...frica-actively-opposed-fight-to-end-apartheid

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/07/14/Foundation-unveils-Contra-commercials/1746553233600/

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/so...-solidarity-movement-to-live-out-his-calling/

https://za.usembassy.gov/u-s-refugee-admissions-program-faqs/

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/30/us/politics/trump-south-africa-white-afrikaners-refugee.html

South Africa's white Afrikaner separatists want Trump's help to become state

By Tim Cocks

April 3, 2025 - - 5:59 PM GMT+1Updated 2 months ago

(Video can't embed here unfortunately)

The 8,000-hectare settlement is riding an unprecedented wave of support from right-wing Americans for Afrikaner nationalists, who lost power when apartheid ended in 1994 and Nelson Mandela became South Africa's first Black president.
  • Summary​
  • White Afrikaner separatists want to create breakaway state​
  • Orania leaders visited US to try to drum up Republican support​
  • Trump has offered Afrikaners asylum in the United States​
ORANIA, South Africa, April 3 (Reuters) - A group of white Afrikaners was so opposed to majority Black rule when apartheid ended some three decades ago that they carved out a separatist enclave, the only town in South Africa where all residents, including menial workers, are white.

Now, the residents of Orania - population, 3,000 - in the semi-arid Karoo region want U.S. President Donald Trump to help them become a state.


Last week, community leaders from Orania visited the United States seeking recognition as an autonomous entity. South African authorities acknowledge it as a town that can raise local taxes and deliver services.

"We wanted to... gain recognition, with the American focus on South Africa now," Orania Movement leader Joost Strydom told Reuters, on a hill strewn with bronzes of past Afrikaner leaders, including from the era of racist white minority rule that was ended by internal resistance and international outrage.

The 8,000-hectare settlement is riding an unprecedented wave of support from right-wing Americans for Afrikaner nationalists, who irrevocably lost power when apartheid ended in 1994 and Nelson Mandela became South Africa's first Black president.

In New York and Washington the Orania leaders met influencers, think-tanks and low-ranking Republican politicians.

"We told them South Africa is such a ... diverse country that it's not a good idea to try and manage it centrally," said Strydom.

Three senior Orania officials interviewed by Reuters were vague about the help they sought in the U.S. They said they were not seeking handouts but wanted investment to build houses to keep up with its 15% population growth, infrastructure and energy independence that it has almost half-achieved with solar.

Strydom declined to say whether his delegation had contact with the Trump administration. The U.S. State Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

South African foreign ministry spokesperson Chrispin Phiri told Reuters: "(Orania's) not... a country. They are subject to the laws of South Africa and ... our constitution."

Other Afrikaner nationalist groups have also visited the U.S. to build alliances with overwhelmingly white, Republican audiences, prompting accusations back home that such trips stoke racial tensions.

The leftist Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) last week accused Orania's leaders of "destroying the unity of this country", a charge they reject.

'START OF SOMETHING'

Afrikaners are descendants of Dutch settlers who began arriving in the 1600s. They resisted the British Empire in South Africa, but once in charge of the country, they hardened racial segregation using discriminatory laws.

Orania town sign in front of local shopping centre is pictured in Orania

Item 1 of 5 Orania town sign in front of local shopping centre is pictured in whites-only town of Orania, South Africa, April 1, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya
[1/5]Orania town sign in front of local shopping centre is pictured in whites-only town of Orania, South Africa, April 1, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya



Students of Orania town's Bo Karoo Opleiding (BKO) school, sit in their classroom in Orania

Item 2 of 5 Students of Orania town's Bo Karoo Opleiding (BKO) school, sit in their classroom in whites-only town of Orania, South Africa, March 31, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya
[2/5]Students of Orania town's Bo Karoo Opleiding (BKO) school, sit in their classroom in whites-only town of Orania, South Africa, March 31, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya


Former Orania Movement Leader Carel Boshoff looks on during an interview in Orania

Item 3 of 5 Former Orania Movement Leader Carel Boshoff looks on during an interview in his office in whites-only town of Orania, South Africa, April 1, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya
[3/5]Former Orania Movement Leader Carel Boshoff looks on during an interview in his office in whites-only town of Orania, South Africa, April 1, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya


Orania Movement Leader Joost Strydom stands next to a symbolic statue of the town in Orania

Item 4 of 5 Orania Movement Leader Joost Strydom stands next to a symbolic statue of the town, with the town's flag fluttering in the background in Orania, South Africa, March 31, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya
[4/5]Orania Movement Leader Joost Strydom stands next to a symbolic statue of the town, with the town's flag fluttering in the background in Orania, South Africa, March 31, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya


Orania flags resembling the colors of apartheid era flag flutter in Orania

Item 5 of 5 Orania flags resembling the colors of apartheid era flag flutter, on the side of the road, in whites-only town of Orania, South Africa, April 1, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya
[5/5]Orania flags resembling the colors of apartheid era flag flutter, on the side of the road, in whites-only town of Orania, South Africa, April 1, 2025. REUTERS/Sisipho Skweyiya


"There were 17,000 laws on land alone," foreign ministry spokesperson Phiri said. "We had... to reconstruct South Africa into a country that represents all those who live in it."

In 1991, as the end of apartheid neared, a group of about 300 Afrikaners acquired Orania, previously an abandoned water project on the muddy Orange River, to create a homeland exclusively for white Afrikaners.

"It's the start of something," former Orania Movement leader Carel Boshoff, said of his community, comparing its desire for independence - Orania even uses its own informal currency - to that of Israel, established after World War Two despite stiff resistance from Arabs living in that territory.

Boshoff, whose father founded the town and whose grandfather, Hendrick Verwoerd, is widely viewed as the architect of apartheid, dreams of a territory stretching to the west coast nearly 1,000 miles away.

Orania's activities are funded through local taxes and donations from supporters and residents.

Its leaders were dismayed to find the only solution that anyone in the United States was interested in discussing was U.S. residency, after Trump offered in February to resettle white South African farmers and their families as refugees.

"We can't be exporting our people," Boshoff told Reuters beside a framed photo of his late grandfather. "We told them ... 'help us here'," he said.

Some U.S. right-wingers have sought to make common cause with Afrikaners in their opposition to diversity policies that aim to empower historically unjustly-treated non-white groups. South Africa's Black empowerment laws have been ridiculed by Trump's South African-born adviser, Elon Musk.

Those laws were the reason Hanlie Pieters moved to Orania eight months ago, after 25 years of living in Johannesburg, to become head of marketing for the town's technical college.

"Our children ... what opportunities will they have?" Pieters said, bemoaning quotas for Black workers, while trainee plumbers and electricians honed their skills in a shed nearby.

A third of all South Africans are out of work, most of them poor Blacks.

One such unemployed man, 49-year-old Bongani Zitha, said he thought "people in Orania... are doing very well" compared to many South Africans. "So many people looking for opportunities. It's a struggle," he sighed.

Zitha, who has lived in a corrugated shanty town in Soweto with no piped water or sewage since 1995, said at least the people of Orania have "rights to health, education, everything".

And unlike himself under white minority rule, he added, Orania residents are free to live wherever they want.​
am repeating this cos it's an American right wing think tank colonialist attraction and will more than likely become a real problem in the near future under this extreme administration and reactionary RW capitalist captured media ecosystems - it's a real concern
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Then you haven't comprehended it at all.

Those sections state that the fifth circuit must resolve how much notice is due, and the likelihood of success for habeas petitions for these people.

Elsewhere it states that AEA detainees must be given enough notice to be heard, and to be able to file for habeas. This is not in dispute. This is not relegated to a future decision in the fifth circuit. It is definitively stated as fact. You have no leg to stand on here.
Yes, and how much notice is due could be next to nothing, some forms of deportation can occur within a 24 hour period. Habeas can also take almost no time as well.
 

Silvanus

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Yes, and how much notice is due could be next to nothing, some forms of deportation can occur within a 24 hour period.
Assume whatever you want, but they said it needs to be enough to file a challenge, and they said what was given was insufficient.

Habeas can also take almost no time as well.
OK...? The time taken for habeas isn't the point of it. The point is to be able to present a case to challenge the grounds of one's incarceration. They're entitled to do so.

Quick reminder that you're defending the incarceration in maximum security of people who entered the country legally and have not been found guilty of any crime.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Assume whatever you want, but they said it needs to be enough to file a challenge, and they said what was given was insufficient.



OK...? The time taken for habeas isn't the point of it. The point is to be able to present a case to challenge the grounds of one's incarceration. They're entitled to do so.

Quick reminder that you're defending the incarceration in maximum security of people who entered the country legally and have not been found guilty of any crime.
Once they decide the one case of habeas is decided (assuming that the courts say ICE can detain them), it's just basically calling a judge and them saying no.

1) the people didn't enter the country legally and 2) what another country does with people is not my business. I'm defending the US to be able to deport illegal migrants that you claimed are protected legal residents (which isn't true).
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Once they decide the one case of habeas is decided (assuming that the courts say ICE can detain them), it's just basically calling a judge and them saying no.

1) the people didn't enter the country legally and 2) what another country does with people is not my business. I'm defending the US to be able to deport illegal migrants that you claimed are protected legal residents (which isn't true).
I'm just going to quote myself here, but there are definitely people in Cecot right now that entered the country legally:


It's looking like most of the "undocumented" migrants that the Trump administration has sent to El Salvador's Cecot prison, the ones they claimed were all criminals and terrorists who entered the US illegally, were actually legal immigrants who were either refugees or had advanced US government permission to be in the country and had been granted 2-year work permits.
Also, what another country does with people is absolutely your business when your tax dollars are paying for their removal and detention in that country's prison.

Again, these aren't deportations, they are being renditioned to another country with the express purpose of putting them into prison despite not having been sentenced to any incarceration, or been found guilty of any crime, or even been formally accused of any crime.

You don't need to defend the deportation of illegal immigrants, that's always been allowed. Most of these people are not "illegal immigrants" and aren't being "deported."
 

Silvanus

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Once they decide the one case of habeas is decided (assuming that the courts say ICE can detain them), it's just basically calling a judge and them saying no.
So you've gone from "habeas doesn't apply" to "habeas applies but i'll assume it would fail".

I'm not interested in whatever argument you want to try to shift to now. You've acknowledged habeas applies, at long fucking last.

1) the people didn't enter the country legally and 2) what another country does with people is not my business. I'm defending the US to be able to deport illegal migrants that you claimed are protected legal residents (which isn't true).

^ Of the 90 where the method of crossing is known, 50 entered legally.

And the US government paid the El Salvador government for their incarceration. It's part of the agreement the US government made. El Salvador didn't just randomly imprison them all upon their arrival.
 

Trunkage

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Once they decide the one case of habeas is decided (assuming that the courts say ICE can detain them), it's just basically calling a judge and them saying no.

1) the people didn't enter the country legally and 2) what another country does with people is not my business. I'm defending the US to be able to deport illegal migrants that you claimed are protected legal residents (which isn't true).
You want those 'illegal immigrants' to have some protections. Otherwise, Trump can just claim you are an illegal immigrant and deport you