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Phoenixmgs

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Well the one thing I can at least be sure you're consistent about, you don't care about being tossed into CECOT. There's nothing illegal in doing it in your mind, so it's okay.
Never said any of that.

Immigration status can be revoked with grounds, with judicial review-- as can a citizen's freedom, as can your own freedom. It cannot be legally revoked with zero grounds and zero process, the recipients just thrown into prison overnight. That's what the law is.

You keep insisting I "simply admit" something that's utter hogwash. Even the Trump administration hasn't argued what you're insisting! Nothing you've provided has substantiated it! It's directly contradicted by the laws and court rulings already posted! It's bollocks, man.



You were arguing that habeas didn't apply, even after the Supreme Court twice stated that it definitely did. You then stopped arguing that, and just started assuming that habeas petitions would fail if they were pursued. Not once have you acknowledged that original position fell through.



Multiple federal courts have said its unlawful to deny people these rights. They're guaranteed by the Constitution to all persons. There's the illegality.

Lest we forget, you said in Trump's defence, the immortal line: "a crime must be proven". You said that to defend against some online criticism. Yet when someone is incarcerated in a torture-prison (at Trump's request, no less), suddenly it's "why does it matter if they committed a crime?"

You have no principled bone in your body.
Visas can be revoked by the State department if they want, they don't need judicial review. You said these people are protected legal residents over a month ago, that isn't true.

I literally did several times...

Them committing a crime or not literally doesn't matter.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

It's the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Plain, complete, unaltered text.

We are not in a time of war or public danger. Regardless what that bloviating orange piece of shit says. Congress decides that, especially within US borders, not the president. So that's one way in which this case runs afoul of the Fifth Amendment.

Garcia's residential status had already been settled by the court once. That's two ways in which this case runs afoul of the Fifth Amendment.

Due process applies. It's "no PERSON", not "no citizen". In other words, everyone under United States jurisdiction is entitled to due process. Period. That's the third, final, and most important way in which this case runs afoul of the Fifth Amendment.
There's immigration laws that bypass due process.

If there is no Habeus Corpus, all US citizens can be deported as illegal immigrants. The whole purpose of Due Process is allowing you to show documents to prove you are a US citizen. Without it, you can't prove anything

Thus has been the plan the whole time
Yes, the US is going to start deporting US citizens... What conspiracy subreddit do you read?


It actually does, quite a bit.

I'm going to just go ahead and quote another one of my posts from this thread because we've already gone over why you're wrong about this before:



The reason that the Trump administration keeps arguing that the people they're deporting are "criminals" is because that's the legal basis under which they can deport them, so yes, the fact that many of them entered the US legally and did not commit any crimes is indeed important.
No, the law they are wanting to use doesn't require them to be criminals. Why would Trump be wanting to make it harder to deport people? Also, why would US law require someone to be a convicted criminal to deport them, it would be basically impossible to deport people then.
 

Phoenixmgs

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How was Cliffhanger Games racist?
Because they didn't treat white people as the default, I'm guessing.

You're asking Phoenixmgs - You REALLY think you're going to get an answer that isn't aggressively centrist (but very much in defense of white nationalist, bigoted, Nazi pieces of shit)?
I could imagine a studio head displaying race-based bigotry (although I imagine it as something that could be explained away as "colorful language" or what have you, otherwise I imagine they'd have to step down soon enough) that I never heard of, hence why I asked.
I was mistaken about the dev team. I thought Cliffhanger was this team she was talking about in the video here, which is Validate. Her talking about her team is pretty fucking racist. "I'm not saying Asians are bad drivers, I'm saying it's sometimes hard to drive as the same road as Asians."

 

Silvanus

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Visas can be revoked by the State department if they want, they don't need judicial review. You said these people are protected legal residents over a month ago, that isn't true.
Those with legal immigration status are protected from arbitrary detainment and punishment without due process. It's in the fifth amendment to the Constitution, and it's very explicit.

Yes, they need grounds to revoke status. If you think something trumps the Fifth Amendment on this, then post it, or stop repeating this horseshit.

I literally did several times...
Literally did what? When you reply to several things in a single chunk without individual quotations, it's all very random and confused.

Them committing a crime or not literally doesn't matter.
It does matter to the US Constitution, and it does matter to every federal court that has ruled on this, including the Supreme Court.

It might not matter to you, but that's because you don't give a shit about the rule of law or the injustice of innocent people being punished. Remember when you said "a crime must be proven" with regards to us criticising Trump? That principle dissolved pretty quick, didn't it?
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Those with legal immigration status are protected from arbitrary detainment and punishment without due process. It's in the fifth amendment to the Constitution, and it's very explicit.

Yes, they need grounds to revoke status. If you think something trumps the Fifth Amendment on this, then post it, or stop repeating this horseshit.



Literally did what? When you reply to several things in a single chunk without individual quotations, it's all very random and confused.



It does matter to the US Constitution, and it does matter to every federal court that has ruled on this, including the Supreme Court.

It might not matter to you, but that's because you don't give a shit about the rule of law or the injustice of innocent people being punished. Remember when you said "a crime must be proven" with regards to us criticising Trump? That principle dissolved pretty quick, didn't it?
This post from you is simply not true:
They entered legally. They were legal temporary residents. Yes, legal residents must legally be allowed to... reside.

You have absolutely zero idea of how the law is supposed to work in your own country.
I said several times that I thought habeas was for imprisonment and didn't include just detention as well.

Again, you don't need an immigrant to commit a crime to deport them. If that were true, the country would be extremely hamstrung in trying to deport migrants. To be officially considered a murderer or insurrectionist or whatever, you have to be convicted of said crime. To be deported, you don't need to be convicted of any crime. You're comparing apples and oranges.
 

Silvanus

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This post from you is simply not true
It is true. You've been shown the source for 50 of them entering legally. You didn't even dispute it.

Again, you don't need an immigrant to commit a crime to deport them. If that were true, the country would be extremely hamstrung in trying to deport migrants. To be officially considered a murderer or insurrectionist or whatever, you have to be convicted of said crime. To be deported, you don't need to be convicted of any crime. You're comparing apples and oranges.
They're not just deported, as we keep pointing out to you. The US government is paying for their continued incarceration in one of the world's worst prisons. You are defending indefinite imprisonment without any crime or charge.

That aside: you do not need a criminal conviction in order to deport someone with legal immigration status, but you do need grounds, such as a breach of terms of entry. There are specific grounds laid out in immigration law on which status can be revoked.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Hundreds of Venezuelans deported from the United States to El Salvador under an 18th century wartime law must be given the chance to challenge their detentions, and the Trump administration must facilitate the legal challenges, a U.S. judge ruled on Wednesday....

The judge gave the Trump administration one week to detail how it would facilitate the deportees’ filing of legal challenges.
In his ruling, Boasberg wrote that the individuals were deported without adequate notice or the right to contest their removals.
“That process - which was improperly withheld - must now be afforded to them,” Boasberg wrote. “Absent this relief, the government could snatch anyone off the street, turn him over to a foreign country, and then effectively foreclose any corrective course of action.”
It was not immediately clear how the migrants would file the legal challenges, known as habeas corpus petitions, from within El Salvador’s Terrorism Confinement Center.

The Venezuelans were deported in March after President Donald Trump, a Republican, invoked the 1798 Alien Enemies Act to swiftly deport alleged members of the Tren de Aragua gang without going through normal immigration procedures.
Boasberg’s Wednesday ruling is the first to address the fate of these detainees.


The Trump administration knew that the vast majority of the 238 Venezuelan immigrants it sent to a maximum-security prison in El Salvador in mid-March had not been convicted of crimes in the United States before it labeled them as terrorists and deported them, according to U.S. Department of Homeland Security data that has not been previously reported.


President Donald Trump and his aides have branded the Venezuelans as “rapists,” “savages,” “monsters” and “the worst of the worst.” When multiple news organizations disputed those assertions with reporting that showed many of the deportees did not have criminal records, the administration doubled down. It said that its assessment of the deportees was based on a thorough vetting process that included looking at crimes committed both inside and outside the United States. But the government’s own data, which was obtained by ProPublica, The Texas Tribune and a team of journalists from Venezuela, showed that officials knew that only 32 of the deportees had been convicted of U.S. crimes and that most were nonviolent offenses, such as retail theft or traffic violations.


The data indicates that the government knew that only six of the immigrants were convicted of violent crimes: four for assault, one for kidnapping and one for a weapons offense. And it shows that officials were aware that more than half, or 130, of the deportees were not labeled as having any criminal convictions or pending charges; they were labeled as only having violated immigration laws.


As for foreign offenses, our own review of court and police records from around the United States and in Latin American countries where the deportees had lived found evidence of arrests or convictions for 20 of the 238 men. Of those, 11 involved violent crimes such as armed robbery, assault or murder, including one man who the Chilean government had asked the U.S. to extradite to face kidnapping and drug charges there. Another four had been accused of illegal gun possession.


We conducted a case-by-case review of all the Venezuelan deportees. It’s possible there are crimes and other information in the deportees’ backgrounds that did not show up in our reporting or the internal government data, which includes only minimal details for nine of the men. There’s no single publicly available database for all crimes committed in the U.S., much less abroad. But everything we did find in public records contradicted the Trump administration’s assertions as well.
 
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Trunkage

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Yes, the US is going to start deporting US citizens... What conspiracy subreddit do you read?
Due Process means you get to prove your a US citizen.

You have demanded for Due Process to go away.

You no longer are allowed to prove you are a US citizen

It's not a conspiracy. It's the consequences of your action

People aren't defending immigrants because they are woke or whatever. It's self preservation
 

Chimpzy

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Trunkage

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Yes, but to stand trial. So perhaps kangaroo court, found guilty, promptly sent back to El Salvador, and the admin can go "You wanted due process, we did due process. Can't complain about that anymore."

And all is well again
I mean, just being sent back to El Salvador would be a win at the moment. He was sold into slavery
 

Phoenixmgs

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It is true. You've been shown the source for 50 of them entering legally. You didn't even dispute it.



They're not just deported, as we keep pointing out to you. The US government is paying for their continued incarceration in one of the world's worst prisons. You are defending indefinite imprisonment without any crime or charge.

That aside: you do not need a criminal conviction in order to deport someone with legal immigration status, but you do need grounds, such as a breach of terms of entry. There are specific grounds laid out in immigration law on which status can be revoked.
Again, this is not true:
"They were legal temporary residents. Yes, legal residents must legally be allowed to... reside."

You don't need grounds... Also, I'm not defending imprisonment (which I've said several times), I said it's not illegal.

Due Process means you get to prove your a US citizen.

You have demanded for Due Process to go away.

You no longer are allowed to prove you are a US citizen

It's not a conspiracy. It's the consequences of your action

People aren't defending immigrants because they are woke or whatever. It's self preservation
They are currently immigration laws that bypass due process. And, no, you can't deport American citizens.

Yes, but to stand trial. So perhaps kangaroo court, found guilty, promptly sent back to El Salvador, and the admin can go "You wanted due process, we did due process. Can't complain about that anymore."

And all is well again
All the court rulings against Trump even by appoint judges by Trump = the US is a kangaroo court in your world? You guys are in your ridiculous echo chambers.

It's Always Sunny was right when this aired and even more poignant today when FX just uploaded this clip a few days back.
 

Chimpzy

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All the court rulings against Trump even by appoint judges by Trump = the US is a kangaroo court in your world? You guys are in your ridiculous echo chambers.

It's Always Sunny was right when this aired and even more poignant today when FX just uploaded this clip a few days back.
Oh, but you don't get it. It's what I genuinely want to happen.
 

Silvanus

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Again, this is not true:
"They were legal temporary residents. Yes, legal residents must legally be allowed to... reside."
It is true. What exactly do you think legal residence is, if not the right to legally reside?

You don't need grounds... Also, I'm not defending imprisonment (which I've said several times), I said it's not illegal.
Imprisonment is what the US government arranged and is paying for. You are defending the imprisonment of people who have broken no law and entered legally.

OK, so if you think legal immigration status can be revoked overnight and with zero grounds, let's see the law. Provide the legislation, judicial precedent, or whatever that empowers the state department to do so. Let's see it.
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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It is true. What exactly do you think legal residence is, if not the right to legally reside?



You do need grounds to revoke status. The law lays out specific grounds on which status can be revoked, and the Constitution lays out protections against arbitrary punishment and detention. You've been provided the laws themselves several times, as well as multiple courts saying as such.

All you're doing, at this point, is endlessly repeating "nuh-uh" in the face of federal courts and explicit laws telling you otherwise.
No you don't get it. He read article that says otherwise so all of the primary sources you provide are now totally meaningless.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Huh indeed
So do you want someone to be imprisoned when they shouldn't be or not?


It is true. What exactly do you think legal residence is, if not the right to legally reside?



You do need grounds to revoke status. The law lays out specific grounds on which status can be revoked, and the Constitution lays out protections against arbitrary punishment and detention. You've been provided the laws themselves several times, as well as multiple courts saying as such.

All you're doing, at this point, is endlessly repeating "nuh-uh" in the face of federal courts and explicit laws telling you otherwise.
So they had visas or some kind of permit?

The U.S. Supreme Court held in Bouarfa v. Mayorkas, No. 23-583 (Dec. 10, 2024), that one cannot appeal a U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) revocation of an approved visa petition in federal court because such revocation is a discretionary agency decision, thus not subject to judicial review.