Furry or Not?

[lord.jeff]

I wouldn't put it as furry myself but I have no issue with people addressing it as fur, namely because we lack a easy term for cat and ear only characters.

 

[chinangel]

okay so, Furry speaking here. none of those characters referenced are furries at all. Holo and Ahri are 'mimis', they have animal traits but are not true furries. Miia is a lamia, a long-standing monster from mythology.

You want to see furry? Check Starfox, Krystal. Furries are antrho animals standing upright, not people with cat ears.

 

[lionsprey]

No, those are all examples of monster girls generally if you take a animal/monster and a girl/woman and put them in a mixer you get a monster girl. if you take an animal, melt it down and pour it into a human cast you get an anthro/furry
other examples of monster girls are amoung other
Demon girls (sucubi devil etc)
centaur
mermaid
thinking furry/anthros are the same thing as monster girls is like saying a turtle is a fish

 

[Paragon Fury]

Liking that snake chick Miia totally does make you a Scalie though.

Does it really count if you alternate between "Oh, pretty girl" and pants-shitting-terror at there being an 8 meter snake around?

 

[loa]

No, those are all examples of monster girls generally if you take a animal/monster and a girl/woman and put them in a mixer you get a monster girl. if you take an animal, melt it down and pour it into a human cast you get an anthro/furry
other examples of monster girls are amoung other
Demon girls (sucubi devil etc)
centaur
mermaid
thinking furry/anthros are the same thing as monster girls is like saying a turtle is a fish

It's more like you insisting that a shark is not a fish because that icky label "fish" is gross and you want to dance around and differentiate yourself from it as much as possible.

 

[lionsprey]

No, those are all examples of monster girls generally if you take a animal/monster and a girl/woman and put them in a mixer you get a monster girl. if you take an animal, melt it down and pour it into a human cast you get an anthro/furry
other examples of monster girls are amoung other
Demon girls (sucubi devil etc)
centaur
mermaid
thinking furry/anthros are the same thing as monster girls is like saying a turtle is a fish

It's more like you insisting that a shark is not a fish because that icky label "fish" is gross and you want to dance around and differentiate yourself from it as much as possible.

no it's not. i dont give a crap if people think monstergirls or furrys are disgusting but i do care when ignorant people are spreading misinformation like that reviewer.

 

[Arqus_Zed]

Question.

When did the word "furry" become a noun?

Other question.

Is it just me, or is this whole "furry" business a strictly American thing? (Or possibly also Japanese?)

Because I get the impression that as soon as something features anthropomorphic animals, it is labeled as either "cartoon" or "furry". Yet here in Europe, we've had stuff like Van Den Vos Reynaerde (Renard The Fox) since the 13th century. And in modern times we have Art Spiegelman's Maus, De Gilde and the ever amazing Blacksad - and I've never heard anyone refer to them as "furry". (Then again... I don't think we have a dutch word for "furry".) Now that I think about it, who ever started this? And when? And why does everyone on the internet seem to think it is such a big deal?

You know what, is there even anyone in this forum that can give me an actual definition of this non-word?

 

[Something Amyss]

Is it just me, or is this whole "furry" business a strictly American thing? (Or possibly also Japanese?)

It's not just you, but it's nowhere near strictly an American thing. It's weird how the community here talks about so many things as though they only occur in America.

 

[loa]

You know what, is there even anyone in this forum that can give me an actual definition of this non-word?

A furry is someone who likes anthromorphic animals (mileage may vary).

 

[otakon17]

My two cents: Holo is not furry. Minerva Mink IS furry. I would know, I used to have a major crush on her as a kid.

Furry

Not Furry

Regardless, as long as people aren't trying to stick their genitals in real animals to their own peril, let'em have it regardless.

 

[otakon17]

Besides being wrong, it struck me as odd; so is anything with a tail or cat ears or anything that isn't strictly "perfectly human" a furry or furry bait now? Because this reviewer isn't the only person I've seen make this inference.

Of course they are.
The question though is why is this a bad thing and who gives a shit?

This is katt from breath of fire 2:

Spoiler

Breath of fire 2 is a great, critically acclaimed game.

Freya from final fantasy 9:

Spoiler

Some people regard final fantasy 9 as the best out of the series.

Anthromorphic characters are everywhere and it's a shame to see some insecure fuckwits perpetuate a negative connotation for them because someone somewhere draws porn of that.

I love BoF in general but it always bugged me that Katt walked around not wearing any kind of "bottoms" at all. Even Felicia has the fur "bikini", but with her because her entire lower portion is furry it just makes her look nude to me.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Trying to define something as Furry or not can be quite difficult due to the fact that "Furry" isn't that well of a defined term itself. It's a slang term for a recently arisen sub-culture which has nebulous (or at least debatable "borders") made up of a variety of different levels of interest. There's also misconception that any kind of anthropomorphic animal is furry and that the two phrases are synonyms. What's the defining differences though is another well-debated issue that have yet to have a proper outlining.

To answer the question though, no, I'd hardly call that "furry". It's a chick with some fox ears and tail pasted on, hardly a proper mix between man and beast.

 

[Chromatic Aberration]

Has somebody posted the chart already?

...Do I really need to bring out the chart? I'm going to bring out the chart.

Spoiler

Spoiler: Or, alternatively

Okay that should answer the question of the OP.[footnote]Wait...the chart is pulled from Banana of Dooms's photobucket - seriously?![/footnote]

However, since I explained what being "a furry" actually means a few times and like to clear up the point somewhat, I'll just quote myself

Spoiler: Me theorizing about the fandom

Highly interesting topic.

Unfortunately I cannot see this thread end well - some aspects are very controversial and threads that talk about Furrydom in general around here I remember not ever dying without much flaming. I hope I'am wrong on this one, though....

As for the matter at hand I personally think that Furries are essentially another subgroup not unlike Goths, Emos and Punks. Its main selling point being a group-identifier people can use for various reasons they can identify by. And those vary wildly, ranging from mentioned belief to actually be non-human (see also Otherkin [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin]), over merely finding the concept of anthropomorphic animals interesting, directly using it as an outlet to rebel against tight social conventions to just looking to satisfy their kinks. Conversely, having one of those reasons above does not lead to one necessarily identifying as a furry. A furry is, first and foremost, one who identifies as such.

So, the group is inhomogenous - like every other social group out there, mind you. That's also the main problem when discussing it: people will discuss using different connotations what a Furry actually is and what the Fandom - some will inevitably make the mistake of identifying the whole group with one of those subsets leading to friction and...well...flames. As such, Its very important to keep the diversity of the group in mind when talking about it.

That said, I'd personally see the factors of both escapism and rebellion as well as the sexual aspect as the biggest incentives pushing people towards using this group-identifier. Hence my comparison with the subgroups at the start, which prominently feature the first of these factors as their main selling point.

Up until now I have only spoken about semantics and the need to treat the fandom as diverse as it evidently is, but have ignored the main question in your post: Why is Furrydom so popular?[footnote] Popular in the Internet that is...[/footnote] Are there biological reasons involved, like the one presumed in one of your sources, or is it a purely Psychological matter? And while we are at it, is that even a problem?

And thats where I could probably write some ten thousand words discussing possible answers to these questions - which I won't do here. Suffice to say I personally think a certain biological disposition, both in terms of fetishism towards anthropomorphic animals[footnote] Not even sure if you can use the word fetish here as I'd treat it as a mild form of zoophilia. And that's a paraphilia last time I checked. [/footnote] as well as using such a group identifier as a form of mechanism for escapism is likely. I also wouldn't discount the probability that both GID as well as overly identifying with an animal can be based on a common biological disposition also. That said, I think cultural differences will also inevitably play a role here: For example, If I recall correctly, most of the Furrydom is based in the US. This could point to a unique characteristic of the US in both having relatively tight knit communities as well as an enshrined notion of freedom and individuality. Both points could catalyze such identification.

Now is Furryism a problem? Of course not. In principle its not anymore of a problem than, say, our gaming community here. Where it gets trickier is, if we consider certain parts again and try to make generalizations about subsets of the community.

To focus on the question at hand[footnote]...which I duly lost sight of during the last paragraph, I realize[/footnote] what about the feeling of being "less than human"? As mentioned, I wouldn't actually discard a possible biological disposition. However its far more likely that people who identified as such simply identify strongly with the group and their anthropomorphic persona - making this far more of a socio-cultural statement than an actual biological one. And this, I wouldn't see as too much of a problem if it doesn't signify some deeper psychological issues.

In terms of treatment of people who overly identify with an animal to the point that they themselves would consider to be the wrong species - if that mandates treatment is something that has to be decided on each case I think and might very well also just be some symptom of other psychological issues.

As closing words I just want to mention that this whole paragraph is based on my personal assumptions and thoughts on that matter and I didn't want to offend anyone with it. Apologies if I did.

Spoiler: Me making the point a bit more conchise

I've likened the Furry Fandom to Goths and Punks before and I'll do it again.

Take Goths. Not all Goths are depressed, listen to metal or are necrophiliacs; a few might just like the community or the color black. Similarly, not all Furries are into furry-porn, stories including anthropormorphic characters or fursuits. Furrydom is as such just another subculture and the definition of what an actual Furry is far from clear cut - the only people you can be sure about are the ones who identify as such.

As to what the appeal of furrydom is, again the comparison with Goths helps: it's essentially a sort of escapism - community, a shared interest, an unusual rebellious stance and some almost ritualistic aspects. It's something people can use to define themselves and use as an outlet to escape external social pressures. This is probably one important factor. The other one is possibly the kinky part which I'd argue also plays a major role in the appeal of furrydom at large. Still, when talking about the Furry fandom it's important to keep the diversity of the group in mind - it's like every other social group a large gelatinous blob without clear cut borders.

As for the question why such stuff receives so much hate: well, first of all, the sex-aspect is icky as hell and people don't like icky stuff. Moreover people don't like stuff they are not used to - Furrydom being exactly that. Even worse, the whole idea behind Furrydom is something completely absurd to me and I'd bet also for most other people: why should there exist a fandom centered around a certain type of (and I'm trying to use this term carefully) "race"? It's like a fandom centered around elves, trolls or what-have-you. While I can see it as an interesting deviancy to the usual human-centered fiction work I don't think it really defines something as stringent as, say, movie genre's or video gaming as a hobby - to me, it seems so .... redundant as a defining quality to built a fandom around. But, that's just my take on the issue - I'm cool with whatever someone does and likes as long it's not harmful to anyone.

[/quote]

Spoiler: Me talking a little bit about the fanservice aspect on the issue of some Sly Cooper game

Well considering that efforts to anthropomorphisize animals dates back millenia and has been a common trope when it comes to fiction for at least two hundred years now...I guess not. Not everything that includes anthropomorphic animals has to be connected to furrydom to be made. In this particular case, the most reasonable explanation is that it's basically just using the old trope of the funny animal and then going the way Mars Atlas essentially described

I don't think that the characters in the game are sexualized because some people in the audience has a fetish for it, I think more likely that they're sexualized because its their not so subtle way of the game telling you one of three things; "THIS CHARACTER IS A SLUTTY SLUT MCWHORESLUT", "THIS IS THE LOVE INTEREST AND YOU KNOW SHE'S A LOVE INTEREST BECAUSE SHE HAS BIG BREASTS", or lastly "THIS CHARACTER IS A RIVAL AND YOU KNOW BECAUSE OF HIS RIPPLING ABS AND CHISELED CHIN". Like I said, not so subtle. Anyways, I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt for being creative and intelligent enough to not do that.

It's a common way to represent this kind of stereotype. It has been done I don't know how many times before and I really cannot see how one can immediately jump to a conclusion that this is intended as a means of fanservice - it kind of reminds me of that thread of whether the ponies from MLP are oversexualized because of their "feminine, quaint gestures" as one put it. Well, guess what? They are meant to be girls and giving them feminine qualities is a clear way to relay this message, not any kind of crazy fanservice.

Aynway, this also highlights what the problem with this whole thread, or rather the whole discussion here is: people have been so traumatized by the vocal part of furrydom or the ickyness of fetish porn they stumbled upon that even such harmless things immediately come under scrutiny. Frankly, I think we could all benefit if we kept the porn (or accusations of pornographic intend, for that matter) where it belongs: in it's fucking obvious niche.

TL;DR: Being into furry porn doesn't make you a furry. Liking anthropormphic characters or stories doesn't make you a furry. What makes you a furry is if you define yourself as such. Nothing more and nothing less. One reason why for instance I, who has an FA account and writes smut don't label myself as furry.

Is it just me, or is this whole "furry" business a strictly American thing? (Or possibly also Japanese?)

Spoiler: Data seems to be on your side

From: https://sites.google.com/site/anthropomorphicresearch/past-results/international-online-furry-survey-2011

I personally also think that the US-american socio-economic setup contributes to association with the group. Then again, there is likely also a point about language proficiency in the rest of the world in there.

 

[Ratty]

I agree with most of your comments, Ratty, though I will say this: "Furry" as it is used in modern parlance has been used to discuss the sexual-fetishization of anthropomorphic characters. People who like characters with anthropomorpic features (i.e. An American Tail, The Secret of Nimh) and those who like anthropomorphic features (tail/ears) on otherwise human characters are not necessarily saddled with the label (and, thus, stigma, I know). Furry is used in modern speak almost exclusively to refer to those who find sexual interest in such features. Furries themselves may NOT use it this way, but the world at large does.

I did not mean to give an impression or value judgement on furries, you are correct. What I absolutely did intend to do, is judge people at large who assume that any anthropomorphic characterization is automatically geared at people who assume some sort of sexual fetish. I hear the word "clop" all the time. I have not once immediately assumed what the ponyporn community (a separate subset from bronies, in my opinion) assumes it to mean. I played Dust: An Elysian Tale. I loved it. I never once thought of it it remotely as "furry."

Furries are more than welcome to things that make them have a good time. People, on the other hand, are not welcome to assume that everything even going down that road, must apply to those who have turned something into a turn on, nor are they welcome to judge that.

Yeah, but then it's mostly just semantics. To what extent you believe words should be defined by "experts" (for dire lack of a better term) as opposed to the public at large. They both can be true I suppose, like the scientific and unscientific definition of "theory". But my inclination is to stick with the more informed definition.

Furry art, music, comics, fursuits, etc, all exist in a G-through-X-rated spectrum.

If you think that porn is what defines "furry", you probably think that being a Trekkie is about getting married in Klingon garb while reading Kirk/Spock slashfic. Or that anime fans are all about the hentai. Or (insert fandom and socially-irredeemable qualities of your choice).

What's "furry", then? Anything where anthropomorphized animals are a major focus, duh.

Anthropomorphized animals or people in cartoons sporting anthropomorphized features - NOT FURRY. For example: Dust: An Elysian Tale - NOT FURRY. Watching An American Tail, not furry.

Then you've never been to a furry convention. "American Tail" has been standard viewing in con-suites since it came out. Dust is likewise very popular with furries. So, in fact, are loads of similar games, comics and movies.

Remember Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

Yeah, I'm about to bash up your childhood now: furries STARTED with TMNT and other anthro-based comics, way back in the '80s and '90s. It began as a sub-set of Comic-Book fandom, meeting initially at major comic conventions like SDCC. Soon, furries started publishing their own comics in TMNT's wake.

I hold here in my hands, a copy of "Equine the Uncivilized", Issue #6 --- in which TMNT crosses with a purely-furry comic. Yep. Eastman and Laird themselves drew panels for it, in which the turtles are throwing the comic's hero out of a bar.

The longest-running furry comic in history, which made it well into the triple-digit-issue range, was "Furrlough" --- purely a military/adventure title. Sorry, you had to look for specialty X-rated titles if you wanted some porn, just like other comic publishers did.

Furries would exist even if furry porn did not. That's just how it is.

Yep. Also don't forget Stan Sakai's Usagi Yojimbo. Several crossovers with TMNT (both in comics and TV shows) and going strong after 25 years.

Liking that snake chick Miia totally does make you a Scalie though.

Does it really count if you alternate between "Oh, pretty girl" and pants-shitting-terror at there being an 8 meter snake around?

I was mostly just joking with that line lol. I'm not familiar enough with the character to see.

Wait...the chart is pulled from Banana of Dooms's photobucket - seriously?!

Apparently. (Though I have no idea who that is.) I just remembered the picture from years ago and found that as source of it on photobucket through a google search. And photobucket doesn't mind hotlinking sooooo...

Also interesting post, though I don't agree with all of your conclusions.

 

[ImperialSunlight]

Furry is used in modern speak almost exclusively to refer to those who find sexual interest in such features. Furries themselves may NOT use it this way, but the world at large does.

That's like saying that Pagans should only use Pagan to refer to tree-hugging hippies, because that's what most of the public considers them to be.

The majority shouldn't always be the judge of what a word that a large group of people rally under means. It matters far less to the rest than it does to those who consider themselves to be represented by that word.

 

[VanQ]

In the wise words of 4chan... who the fuck cares. You either like it or you don't! does it really matter what other people call it?

It's ironic that you'd say that because 4chan as a whole rejoiced when the furfa-furfriends were forcefully ejected from the site. Posting furry on 4chan is like daring the mods to ban you.

And since people are posting charts, there's a better one than the one already posted.

THIS IS NOT SPOILERED BECAUSE IT'S AN IMAGE. IT'S SPOILERED FOR SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES WHOSE FEELINGS GET HURT BY NAUGHTY WORDS. DO NOT CLICK THE SPOILER IF BAD WORDS MAKE YOU CRY. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Spoiler

 

[Paragon Fury]

I don't think using pedobait made the chart any better. >.<

 

[Playful Pony]

No, but does it really matter? The internet is endlessly huge, and there is frankly no need to spend time in sections of it that one does not enjoy. Besides, strange interests, sexual atractions and fetishes have existed for as long as history, and furries are by no means the strangest one. Even within anime, I would argue that the hypersexualization of (some times very) young girls is far more 'unwholesome' than some fox ears and a tail...

If I like to dress up for sex with my chosen partner thats my business, and I don't really understand why someone would want to interfere with and/or put a stop to it. There is no rape, pedophilia or torture involved, which in my opinion should be far more unsettling.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

In the wise words of 4chan... who the fuck cares. You either like it or you don't! does it really matter what other people call it?

It's ironic that you'd say that because 4chan as a whole rejoiced when the furfa-furfriends were forcefully ejected from the site. Posting furry on 4chan is like daring the mods to ban you.

Aside from /b/ that is, where there are consistently at least 3 furry threads at any one time.
[quote/]
And since people are posting charts, there's a better one than the one already posted.

THIS IS NOT SPOILERED BECAUSE IT'S AN IMAGE. IT'S SPOILERED FOR SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES WHOSE FEELINGS GET HURT BY NAUGHTY WORDS. DO NOT CLICK THE SPOILER IF BAD WORDS MAKE YOU CRY. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Spoiler

[/quote]
This chart is pretty much as dead on as it gets.

[sub/]it would be hilarious and kind of sad if you got a warning or probation for that one word appearing on the chart...[/sub]

 

[The Lunatic]

I'd really argue anything that appeals to the animalistic charm of something is essentially drawing from the same well as the furry fandom.