Game Design Sketchbook: Police Brutality

[CanadianWolverine]

Huh? Just want it to be clear, I wasn't trying to imply anything else wasn't objective evidence, only that being what I was asking for. When it came to the videos I listed, I wasn't looking to refute anything, only multiple angles on the incident, and from that drawing what my impressions of the incident were even while admitting it plainly wasn't the full picture of the whole incident, and in that regard, thank you for the link.

Though, I should point out, not every video starts at the same point, some start where John Kerry is still speaking with Andrew Meyer appearing to be waiting to speak by the mic, where as some start only when Andrew Meyer is starting to speak - the ones with John Kerry still speaking are about as far back as they seem to go before the take down, so I am thankful for your link to the eye witness account which makes the assertion to why the enforcement officers were present, which does seem to show that John Kerry was in fact trying in his own way to diffuse the situation - which begs the question as to why the officers grabbed Andrew part way through his ranting, instead of just letting him blow off steam. If Andrew had been rushing the stage or shouting at the crowd to some violent action, yeah, step in, but at that point it really did seem like they were being gung-ho at some event organizer's request or suggestion to that effect.

As far as video being objective, I would like to assert that video on board police cars have helped secure convictions more so than first hand accounts, due to the vagaries of memory. While its not beyond the scope for video to be doctored or edited, as seen in some of the youtube videos, with our current technology it is easier to spot false video than it is to spot unintentionally false memory.

With regards to the actions the police took, it was by the book, in fact in some regards they were going easy on him by not applying the use of a baton aka night stick or a flash light to subdue him, instead relying on strength in numbers by isolating limbs and downward pressure on the rib cage, though I thought the taser was excessive but that may be hind sight, given the number of cases we are aware of now where tasers can in fact be lethal, despite assertions to the contrary: such as this incident - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=_IJqdL40lvU

 

[Cousin_IT]

My point about the youtube vids is that they all start before what eyewitnesses cite as the first disruption caused by Andrew Meyer; him pushing to the front of the queue on the left of the auditorium after the announcement that the mic on the right (where he was waiting) would be turned off before he would be at the front of that line. All give the impression that it was a calm discourse that escalated, when infact it would appear that there was a previous heated exchange involving Meyers which had calmed down. My understanding is that Meyers had demanded to ask Kerry a question; & to placate him Kerry agreed but continued to answer the question he was answering before Meyers first outburst (which is what Kerry is doing at the start of the Youtube video).

When taken out of context, the Youtube videos show a decent dialogue between Meyers & Kerry which was escalated by the police without real provocation. This does not appear to actually have been the case. There was a prior incident; & on getting to ask his question Meyers instead rambles on about all sorts of things before finally asking three questions; doing so in an increasingly agitated manner after the policewoman aparently asks him to finish talking. Now Im sure if the police hadnt responded by cutting his mic & attempting to lead him out the auditorium, Kerry could have answered his questions & Meyers gone away content. But the police were not acting out of line in escorting him away; indeed its quite possible that had Kerry not answered how Meyers wanted he'd continue to "hog the mic" (ive been to Q&A's where its happened, its bloody frustrating to say the least) further exacerbating the situation.

The video of the inside of the policecar is good & objective. But the videos from inside the auditorium are not. They arnt static cameras, CCTV or constantly running newscameras. They are home movies. The first one you show was filmed on Meyers own Camera, which he handed to another student after the first disruption took place & so unable to show it. The cop car footage shows, equally, that once hes calmed down Meyers is alot more cooperative with the police, & likewise they are with him. Had he acted that way within the auditorium this no doubt wouldnt have happened. Indeed, had he not started yelling & screaming, the cops might have heard Kerry asking for him to remain & the whole thing would have not happened.

 

[Arbre]

Thanks. As I thought, we were totally missing the context, and dealing with someone who didn't respect other people.

AnteGravity was provocative, but he had points.

People say that what the police did was wrong.
Sorry, but it appears the law forbids this kind of nuisance. Of course, you can speak for hours about a law which would forbid people from creating ruckuss - I consider that a bit of chaos is necessary at every level - and you could even try to spin it and exagerate by saying that this kind of law would be perfect in a totalitarian regime, but it lacks context.
In this case, I believe it has more to do with "respect the other" and less "STFU or you're in jail".

The presence of a VIP explains the policemen's tension and hesitationless reaction.
The cops really tried to get Meyers out.
Now, I don't really see what the taser provided at all. It obviously didn't calm the guy, and the way he shouts sounds like bad acting (aw aw aw aw it hurts pleeeease aw aw aw).
I don't see why they just didn't grab him, all of them, and put it into the car or something.

So on one hand, you have an attention whore, a sort of ass, and on the other, tense policemen. Boom cocktail.

My spouse has been in that kind of situation. Her friend spoke past the three-minute limit at a city meeting, was asked to leave by the mayor, refused to leave, was tackled by police, and was eventually dragged out of the room. Everyone in the room, including my spouse, stood by and watched it happen. According to my spouse, these situations paralyze the onlookers with shock.

On the theory, I don't see much problem in that.
Of course, again, the details matter more. How did the police act is the main point of focus.

The irony of the taser is that it won't cause as many deaths as guns do, but then it has people thinking that since it doesn't kill in general (even if it does, looking at the ratio of deaths by taser/reported uses would be interesting), it can be used more, because of a logic shortcut - they're rather harmless - which works a lot more in a country with so much guns. Therefore, you somehow get more people thinking they can shock others, which some people would see as torture.

In my view, it's still better than shotguns in a country where it's your right to shoot to defend yourself.

 

[Chikinware]

I also did not find the video funny. I enjoyed the game; it did a nice job of representing collective effort to thwart the police.

 

[Supermane1985]

Arbre, the purpose of the taser was to incapacitate him, not calm him. By overloading his nervous system it allows officers to gain control over belligerent or non-cooperative suspects, both of which describe Meyer. It is a shame that people come running to the defense of people like him, and that people get banned when they criticize socially irresponsible and baseless games like "Police Brutality."

Regarding the issue of deaths via taser, they are almost non-existent, especially considering how often they are used. When it does happen it's because of a pre-existing condition that would not have been an issue if the person had complied. Officers here in Portland have relied on them very heavily because they are extrordinarily effective (much more so than standard issue pepper spray), they are very safe, and the effect is short lasting. Tasers have really been a God send for the police.

 

[kalaim]

That is the first time i ever see this video. frightening.
I do not intend to go off topic but this video reminds me one i already saw on a French TV show on about the investigations done after the Koursk Incident in Russia.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QRCQozltLmA

you can see this woman and mother who has lost his one son during this incident, yelling on a military guy -commandant or something- about how the military handled the rescuin' of the dead submariners, how he should be ashamed to stand there and all that.
And note the presence of this woman standin' behind her after a while... and this seringe she hit the old woman with at 1:41mn... soon after the old lady collapses...

The context is different, the rules are different, the story is different but it is still pretty frightening and reminds me this police tasing video in some way.

 

[Biscuitui]

The police did their job.
They were told to remove him, he resisted, they warned him they would use a taser on him if he continued resisting, and he didn't stop.

I'm sure there is much worse police brutality happening more often.

The issue with this particular case: why were the police told to remove him?
Because the question was going to make Kerry look bad.
If they had let Kerry handle it, there likely would have been no problem, but someone (one of Kerry's staff perhaps?) decided Meyer shouldn't be able to speak freely.

There's the real issue.

 

[BlueMage]

Ah, this is doing the rounds again?

Might I recommend this? [http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Don%27t_taze_me_bro] You may think ill of the source, but these guys tend to reliably document things because, to be honest, the truth is often far more hilarious than fiction. Contains a few interesting tid-bits.

 

[argonaut05]

This game looks like an interesting commentary on the subject of police abuse. I too have thought about making a game on the subject, but more from the angle of resource management on the police side.

A few years ago, I was the victim of what I like to call "bored police syndrome". I was pulled over for making a left turn through a yellow light. Since there was alcohol on my breath, I had to take the Breathalyzer and scored 0.05. Since I didn't meet the prerequisites for a jail trip, the officer threw the Breathalyzer on the ground, claimed it wasn't working properly, and called for a second unit to conduct a retest. When I scored 0.04 on the retest, the officer ordered that I not continue to drive and to leave the area. When I started to walk away, the second officer (the one who brought the Breathalyzer which was working correctly) ordered me back and told me I was being placed under arrest for public intoxication. Apparently, my assertion that the machine already proved that I wasn't drunk so "you can't arrest me for that" constituted resisting arrest. I was a rag-doll throughout the process, but I was somehow charged 6 offenses including "making terroristic threats" -- all but the left-turn-on-yellow were dropped.

I don't think #4 should have been banned for his comments, regardless of how "pants on the head" they were. There are people in our society who do have the belief that the police are above reproach, and his statements reflect the view that those people hold. I'm not naive enough to think discourse, games, or anything outside of personal experience will change his opinion, but his are important when considering how to design social/political commentary game such as this.

 

[Arbre]

Arbre, the purpose of the taser was to incapacitate him, not calm him. By overloading his nervous system it allows officers to gain control over belligerent or non-cooperative suspects, both of which describe Meyer.

What I meant by calm him was make him STFU.
Sorry if it didn't transpire through my post.

That said, he may have been critically overreacting, but thus far, he seemed to be lifting some interesting points (I can't say if they were genuinely good to reply to or not).

The most troubling part of it is how, somehow, the police forces started to react and move closer from the moment the guy started asking itching questions.

That is the first time i ever see this video. frightening.
I do not intend to go off topic but this video reminds me one i already saw on a French TV show on about the investigations done after the Koursk Incident in Russia.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QRCQozltLmA

you can see this woman and mother who has lost his one son during this incident, yelling on a military guy -commandant or something- about how the military handled the rescuin' of the dead submariners, how he should be ashamed to stand there and all that.
And note the presence of this woman standin' behind her after a while... and this seringe she hit the old woman with at 1:41mn... soon after the old lady collapses...

The context is different, the rules are different, the story is different but it is still pretty frightening and reminds me this police tasing video in some way.

Well, in both cases, there's someone creating a problem, focusing attention, although I must say, even after reading the ED link, the Koursk related one, which I also saw a while ago, is more dramatic.
The most problematic aspect of this is how this part was totally censored. Press in Russia is a joke.

 

[raankh]

Anyhoo, I thought the game was interesting. I too found my strategy. Interestingly I have used the same tactic in less violent situations to good effect. Getting people to help someone is a sort of similar but inverse situation.

 

[rougeknife]

I?m very thankful that a man who stood back and said nothing to what occurred, even if it was to protect him, did not become the leader of the most powerful nation on earth. Perhaps the loss at the election broke his spirit, but a man serious about becoming president would have stepped in, regardless of the fact that the person was setting out of embarrass him, and put a stop to it.

On that note, I don?t think theirs a single decent, honest person around who would ever run for leadership of any country. All the decent blokes are down at the pub.

A few years ago, I was the victim of what I like to call "bored police syndrome". I was pulled over for making a left turn through a yellow light. Since there was alcohol on my breath, I had to take the Breathalyzer and scored 0.05. Since I didn't meet the prerequisites for a jail trip, the officer threw the Breathalyzer on the ground, claimed it wasn't working properly, and called for a second unit to conduct a retest. When I scored 0.04 on the retest, the officer ordered that I not continue to drive and to leave the area. When I started to walk away, the second officer (the one who brought the Breathalyzer which was working correctly) ordered me back and told me I was being placed under arrest for public intoxication. Apparently, my assertion that the machine already proved that I wasn't drunk so "you can't arrest me for that" constituted resisting arrest. I was a rag-doll throughout the process, but I was somehow charged 6 offenses including "making terroristic threats" -- all but the left-turn-on-yellow were dropped.

Thats harsh, and piss weak. Such men are not even worthy of the air they breath, let alone a badge.

 

[joshg]

I like the idea of a game about non-violent resistance, but the video you chose to bring up the subject sort of spoils the topic. The guy in the "Don't Tase Me, Bro" video simply wasn't practicing non-violence. Oh, sure, he didn't throw a punch or anything, but he was constantly pulling away from the cops' grasp and struggling. If he would've just let them handcuff him and walk out (or go limp and let them drag him out) he could have continued to protest loudly and make his so-called point.

Since the line of sight on the video is crappy once he's on the ground, I dunno - maybe it's true he had stopped physically resisting by then and the taser shot was in fact going too far. But as far as I could tell he was freaking out and struggling the whole time.

FWIW, I've been mistakenly handcuffed by the police in a public place before. If you just relax and don't act like an idiot, it's not a big deal. Just let them put the cuffs on and make it very obvious that you're not a physical threat.

Edit: Then again, I live in Canada. Maybe our cops tend to suck less?

As for the game itself, is the only winning strategy to get a whole bunch more people tasered? The whole message that conveys is just ... weird. As though the only meaningful interaction you can have with police is to either cower in fear, or be enough of a jackass that you get tasered. That doesn't really paint a sane picture of non-violent resistance, to me.

For that matter, why is it that in your game, people are being tasered simply for shouting? Are we to assume that the characters are also resisting arrest, or do you seriously think that all that guy did to get himself tasered was shout?

Let's not get pants-on-head retarded over this, shall we?

Banned. /mod.

This pretty much sums up why the police were trying to drag the guy out, too.

 

[Gedrin]

Someone should make a game where you shout and shout until you are allowed to take over a public forum and no one does anything about it.

 

[Fire Daemon]

Obviously the man didn't need to try and resist being taken out of the forum, he was trying to get away from the police who he thought where trying to arrest him. It is fair enough that the police tried to take him out of the building.

What is not fair is that while they had him pinned to the ground (5 againts 1) they electrocuted him. This was not needed, they should have lead him out of the building, told him what he had done wrong and then either let him go or take him back to the station to keep him away from the forum. That video is a clear example of how the Police got scared and resulted to using their weapons. I understand that the Police are often in danger and I understand that the Police do need to result to violence to maintain the protection of others however this was not one of those instances. They clearly overreacted, had no idea how to handle the sistuation and fell back on a fail safe (violence). This is basic human behaviour, I suppose you could link it to being trapped in a corner and the only thing you could do is fight tooth and claw against those that had trapped you.

However in this case they did not have their backs to the wall and the sure as hell did not have fight tooth and claw to maintain order in that forum.

I was also disgusted at the fact that those bystanders just stood there, surely one of them, just one, would have had the quick reaction and the guts to say something.

 

[Hendar23]

So the guy was being stupid, but why the tazers? How many officers where there? Four? And they can't restrain one guy? They are fucking cowards. Are they so scared of getting a black eye they will taze a guy? He was resisting, sure, but he wasn't dangerous. He wasn't throwing punches.
The same as the guy Canadian cops tazed to death. He smashed a computer screen, I understand, he had to be arrested. But he never threatened anyone and was three male officers there. They never even tried to restrain him with their hands, they went straight for the tazer. They are supposed to protect the public (yes, even suspects) but and the first threat of a bruise they chicken out.

 

[Geoffrey42]

When it does happen it's because of a pre-existing condition that would not have been an issue if the person had complied.

I have a pre-existing condition where I'm allergic to bulletholes. I guess that isn't an issue so long as I comply?

I'm not commenting on the content of the write-up, the police incidents in question, or the game itself in my statement above. Just the humorous, sad nature of the one statement.

As far as the game goes, the concept was interesting, and the mechanic is something I don't think I've encountered before, and think I could enjoy in other contexts.

 

[Gedrin]

I suppose the questions are:

Is it acceptable to use a taser on a suspect that is kicking, screaming, and flailing to such an extent that five officers are unable to rapidly handcuff him?

If someone is resisting to the point that the police are unable to handcuff him with five officers, does he pose any danger to himself, the officers, or bystanders?

Is it reasonable to believe that if five officers are having difficulty handcuffing a suspect, the use of additional muscle and physical force is as likely to do harm to the suspect as a taser?


I'm pretty sure that if the officers had dislocated the guys shoulder in the process of handcuffing him, we'd be having the same conversation about excessive force, but saying they could have used a taser.

Personally, when I first saw this, I thought the guy was high.

 

[joshg]

Just saw this today and it seemed appropriate.

Canadian law enforcement agencies have swallowed the propaganda of the company that manufactures Tasers, an expert testified Tuesday at a public inquiry in Vancouver examining police use of the weapons.

Officers are reaching for Tasers when communication and non-life threatening responses could do the trick, Webster testified. He told the inquiry there is only one situation where a Taser might be appropriate.

"That would be the last thing before you have to shoot somebody," Webster testified.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/05/13/bc-080513-taser-inquiry-webster.html

 

[Hinoon]

The politics of this moment are like a chess game played without any time to think - that's what paralyzes.

And for anyone listening, at one point on the ground he clearly says 'Let me go and I'll walk out'.

But the police won't do that because he pulled away from them and resisted and now they are in lock down mode. But then again, he did that because they simply walked up to him and grabbed him. What if they had circled around in front of him/sides (very easy) and simply motioned him to leave, slowly advancing and moving him closer to the exit then right outside?

The fact is, they decided he didn't deserve the chance at human dignity of walking out on his own two feet. I specifically mean chance - perhaps he would have used the chance to rush them. But his comment on the floor suggests he would have walked out (I'm sure loudly, but he'd be gone in just a minute or two).

The question is, have the police been given powers over your dignity? Like it can be disposed of at their discretion? That seems a bit odd, doesn't it? For no practical reason, police may extinquish your dignity? Is that what you voted for as a citizen? Note: for some in this thread, yeah, it is. I'm not trying to argue you out of that - I'm making the question clear for people who realise they didn't grant those powers.

Sadly all these questions are rather hard to compose and raise properly in the minute amount of time the event happened in. I don't think the games premise is spot on - blocking the police doesn't make sense if as a citizen you granted the police power to begin with. I think some game based on raising a chant in the crowd along the lines of 'We didn't give you this power!' chanted over and over again and spreading through those people who didn't grant that power, might make a spot on game. Police are just the gang who wear blue - they have morale which is based on public support. Demonstrate that support isn't there, and you likely break their morale. Just gotta figure how to put it into game format.

For those supporting the police actions, btw, might want to consider whether the police give a damn about your support - they'd do it whether you supported them or not. Supporting them doesn't mean they care about you any more than the guy they had on the ground. Your not on the same team cause you cheer them - their not a sports team. Be a bit more savy than that. Feel free to agree with their actions, but don't start thinking they'd look after you any more because of your support.