Game Developers and Cameras

[Midnight Crossroads]

Why is it so hard to get cameras right in games? It's one of the most common complaints I see, and is responsible for turning so many games into frustrating sessions of trial and error. Sometimes, the camera is okay, but completely restricted when I may just like to take a few seconds to take in the environment. Other times, I find myself going in and out of the same door five times because the camera suddenly reverses itself as I'm holding forward.

 

[Blueruler182]

I'd tell you, but I'm not a game developer. Neither are you. It's not much to ask for, I agree, but "How hard is this?" is probably a stupid question. Because neither of us can do it.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

This is very close to the question of people saying "Why can't people JUST remake FFVII with new graphics... I mean, it's just the graphics" In which Shamus Young wrote a great article showing just how difficult the orocess was.

I get the feeling that it's harder than it looks in this case, and since I can't do it, I won't bash it

 

[Liberaliter]

You make it sound as if it is so easy to fix these things, as if the Game developers are purposely screwing us over. You try fix it, then we'll talk.

 

[gl1koz3]

The biggest problem seems to be how they purposely force the camera in some predefined non-changeable angles at places (and do so with horribly slow and sickening transition animations), but forget that the camera also... like... absolutely defines the direction of the pressed movement keys. What the?

Best example: AC2

Then they also make vehicles turn in the direction of camera... but stick the turret (of a tank) to it... What the? I'm not a computer that can solve this megapivot overkill equation.

Best example: Prototype

 

[Harlemura]

Because maybe you want to see what your character looks like from the other side of a wall.

Maybe it's because they put together the levels and and the camera system at separate times so when they're put together they don't match up properly, causing the problems.
But I dunno how it works. Just an idea.

 

[Jamash]

I still can't fully understand how virtual cameras can get stuck on virtual scenery.

I know it's realistic, and if it was a film set then the camera man would indeed bump into the tree if the director told him to pan the camera like that... but in a virtual world where tangibility is a variable decided by the programmers, can't they just make the camera 'noclip' through the scenery instead of getting stuck?

Although a 'noclipping' camera does have it's problems too, like when you zoom in on your character and suddenly go through the back of their skull and see their face from the inside... that's some freaky shit right there.

Incidentally, and I'm not sure how relevant this is, but in some games when your character is walking through the level apparently they're not actually moving at all, they're just walking on the spot and it's the world and scenery that's moving around them, much like how they created the illusion of flight in old films, in which they had a static model of an aeroplane and a moving background with clouds and mountains.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

This is very close to the question of people saying "Why can't people JUST remake FFVII with new graphics... I mean, it's just the graphics" In which Shamus Young wrote a great article showing just how difficult the orocess was.

I get the feeling that it's harder than it looks in this case, and since I can't do it, I won't bash it

I don't buy it. Maybe if we were still playing Tomb Raider 1 and 3D games were new and exciting, I would be more accepting. There are games out there with wonderful cameras. There are games, like the mentioned Tomb Raider -which still is plagued by camera issues- that absolutely need a working camera. It's not something you throw into the game at the last minute so you can never test it properly. It's one of the first things I notice when playing. It's omnipresent during my encounter, and can make or break it.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

This is very close to the question of people saying "Why can't people JUST remake FFVII with new graphics... I mean, it's just the graphics" In which Shamus Young wrote a great article showing just how difficult the orocess was.

I get the feeling that it's harder than it looks in this case, and since I can't do it, I won't bash it

I don't buy it. Maybe if we were still playing Tomb Raider 1 and 3D games were new and exciting, I would be more accepting. There are games out there with wonderful cameras. There are games, like the mentioned Tomb Raider -which still is plagued by camera issues- that absolutely need a working camera. It's not something you throw into the game at the last minute so you can never test it properly. It's one of the first things I notice when playing. It's omnipresent during my encounter, and can make or break it.

Agreed, but take games like Red Dead Redemption and Alpha Protocol. Why do we still have game bugs? We should be past those issues as well. However, they still exist and yet the programming isn't always air tight

 

[Proteus214]

Why is it so hard to get cameras right in games? It's one of the most common complaints I see, and is responsible for turning so many games into frustrating sessions of trial and error. Sometimes, the camera is okay, but completely restricted when I may just like to take a few seconds to take in the environment. Other times, I find myself going in and out of the same door five times because the camera suddenly reverses itself as I'm holding forward.

It happens when there is a disconnect between the gameplay design and usability design and technical issues get swept under the rug for the sake of stuffing more content into a game. I do have experience writing a camera for a 3D game and I will say that it is a royal pain in the ass if the level designers don't make their needs clear very early on.

For example, there was one situation where they made a level where the player character gets shoved into a very small space that they would have to navigate through to get to the other side of a large structure. Every environment that they had designed before then was nice and wide open and they didn't tell me about this fox hole until the last minute when we got feedback from a beta tester saying something like "I can't get through this one part because the camera keeps getting stuck in the geometry." The solution was a combination of tweaking the geometry and changing a few lines of code, but it still wasn't perfect and we had to push it out anyway since the deadline was only 24 hours away.

Keep in mind this was a small project. Making changes like that to a multi-million dollar game would take more than just a few hours.

 

[pirate64]

Really? Iv found very very few games have that camera problem and none that I can think of that I have played in the last few years.

I'd have to agree. I've never really had any problems with cameras in games. I just don't get what everyone is on about. Who know maybe I've just been lucky to dodge all games with these problems. Maybe if someone could give me an example of a modern game with this problem I could say if I'd played it and how I found the camera.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

Really? Iv found very very few games have that camera problem and none that I can think of that I have played in the last few years.

I'd have to agree. I've never really had any problems with cameras in games. I just don't get what everyone is on about. Who know maybe I've just been lucky to dodge all games with these problems. Maybe if someone could give me an example of a modern game with this problem I could say if I'd played it and how I found the camera.

Off of the top of my head. There's an area in Manaan of Kotor where the camera flips as you walk out of the security zone. It's just a small part, but one of the flipping controls in mid movement things. I also mentioned Tomb Raider. It would be nice if the camera focused less on her assets and more on the next ledge.

Another camera plagued game is Dante's Inferno. Several jump puzzles including a gear jump in pride make those parts confusing. While it's not a fault of the camera, I would have also liked to have a seen a first person inspecting camera in the game. So often I wanted to look at the environments closer, since that's one of the biggest appeals of the game, and I can't. I am forced instead to stare at the wall I'm running along most of the game.

Okami had a pretty good camera, but fell short while trying to judge distances in the jumps between banners when you used divine wind. Luckily there were only a few parts where you were required to jump these, but there were enough to notice.

The biggest killer in cameras for me is the tendency for the cameras to sharply change angles instead of a slower pan that allows me to adjust the orientation of my controls gradually.