Game Filler

[Trolldor]

I had a short rant about maces in a thread elsewhere, but it got me thinking:
What the fuck is the point of some content?

It's like this:
I buy a shelf. It's a very pretty shelf. I display all my pretty things.
But there's an empty spot looming over me.
So while I could leave it empty there's a cheap porcelin pony, an utterly repulsive little thing. A turgid, rancid shit of a statuette.
So I put it on the shelf just for the sake of filling the gap.
When people see my shelf they say "Ohh how nice", but if they pay any attention that goddamn pony stares at them accusingly, wishing for death as a release from its horrifying and painful existence.

That pony is content filler. Things like health padding for higher difficulties. Compulsory puzzles in action-orientated games.
Level grinding in RPGs.
Compulsory Mini-games.
QTEs.
It doesn't actually add anything to the experience except that by being there it gives the illusion of completion.
If you ever doted on it you'd realise how much it actually detracts from the over-all experience.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

That was almost deep enough to be considered intelligent discourse.

[sub]Almost.[/sub]


The player deems what detracts from an experience, some people like mini-games. Some people like QTE's, what's wrong with adding a bit of padding? If it makes the game feel like a more complete package then where's the harm?

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Some people like these things. Games include them to cater to that crowd. Example: I think level grinding is great.

 

[Trolldor]

Some people like these things. Games include them to cater to that crowd. Example: I think level grinding is great.

Would you rather "level-grind" through unique side quests or by running around in circles on an open field for several hours ala-Final Fantasy?
If you actually do enjoy wasting several hours killing the same monsters just to advance the story far enough until you have to spend several hours repeatedly killing a different kind of monster, then you have a problem.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Some people like these things. Games include them to cater to that crowd. Example: I think level grinding is great.

Would you rather "level-grind" through unique side quests or by running around in circles on an open field for several hours ala-Final Fantasy?
If you actually do enjoy wasting several hours killing the same monsters just to advance the story far enough until you have to spend several hours repeatedly killing a different kind of monster, then you have a problem.

So I have a problem now? Because I like grinding my squads in Soul Nomad or leveling my team in Record of Agarest War? Called different tastes. Insisting someone has a problem because of differing tastes is very rude.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Some people like these things. Games include them to cater to that crowd. Example: I think level grinding is great.

Would you rather "level-grind" through unique side quests or by running around in circles on an open field for several hours ala-Final Fantasy?
If you actually do enjoy wasting several hours killing the same monsters just to advance the story far enough until you have to spend several hours repeatedly killing a different kind of monster, then you have a problem.

So I have a problem now? Because I like grinding my squads in Soul Nomad or leveling my team in Record of Agarest War? Called different tastes. Insisting someone has a problem because of differing tastes is very rude.

Ignore him. I think he has a case of the entitled pretentious gamer syndrome.

'Everything in a game must have a deeper purpose! I demand it!'

 

[Daggedawg]

Some people like these things. Games include them to cater to that crowd. Example: I think level grinding is great.

Would you rather "level-grind" through unique side quests or by running around in circles on an open field for several hours ala-Final Fantasy?
If you actually do enjoy wasting several hours killing the same monsters just to advance the story far enough until you have to spend several hours repeatedly killing a different kind of monster, then you have a problem.

Name one game, one game, where level grinding is a necessity to advance the plot. I can guarantee you, it is always possible to get through a game without grinding. The grinding comes into play when you want to do the more challenging sidequests, or just get ridiculously overpowered and breeze through the game.

 

[Miles000]

but if they pay any attention that goddamn pony stares at them accusingly, wishing for death as a release from its horrifying and painful existence.

You have something against ponies?

OT: I don't think there is anything wrong with content filler. My only problem is when the actual game-play is not as refined as it could be. Filler should only be added once the game is complete. Not as a substitute to a finished product. A small refined diamond is better than a large rock.

 

[Littaly]

I agree with you that a lot of games feature too much padding. And a game that is stuffed with clumsy, badly disguised filler is worse than one that is unusually short. However.

What the fuck is the point of some content?
Compulsory puzzles in action-orientated games.

They are there to provide a change of pace. Amping the game up to 11 and keeping it there for its entirety is generally a bad choice, it might work for some people, but it's probably a good idea to let you breathe a little in between the action sequences. Imagine going through God of War without the puzzle and platforming sequences, you'd be mashing buttons non-stop, how long would it take before that got monotonous?

QTEs.

They allow games to display some really impressive looking action on screen that would otherwise be impossible. A game engine has it's limitations, QTEs allow you to work around them. I'm not a huge fan of them, but I can see their purpose, and I would hardly classify them as filler.

 

[Trolldor]

Some people like these things. Games include them to cater to that crowd. Example: I think level grinding is great.

Would you rather "level-grind" through unique side quests or by running around in circles on an open field for several hours ala-Final Fantasy?
If you actually do enjoy wasting several hours killing the same monsters just to advance the story far enough until you have to spend several hours repeatedly killing a different kind of monster, then you have a problem.

So I have a problem now? Because I like grinding my squads in Soul Nomad or leveling my team in Record of Agarest War? Called different tastes. Insisting someone has a problem because of differing tastes is very rude.

If you take pleasure in spending hours of your life killing something to no avail or purpose other than being able to kill more of them even easier, then yes you have a problem.
Even more of a problem if you think the game benefits from making this compulsory.

Some people like these things. Games include them to cater to that crowd. Example: I think level grinding is great.

Would you rather "level-grind" through unique side quests or by running around in circles on an open field for several hours ala-Final Fantasy?
If you actually do enjoy wasting several hours killing the same monsters just to advance the story far enough until you have to spend several hours repeatedly killing a different kind of monster, then you have a problem.

Name one game, one game, where level grinding is a necessity to advance the plot. I can guarantee you, it is always possible to get through a game without grinding. The grinding comes into play when you want to do the more challenging sidequests, or just get ridiculously overpowered and breeze through the game.

Every final fantasy up to 12. I haven't played 13 but I hear that's very much the same.
You say that it's "possible to get through a game without grinding", except it's not. In these games there will always be a few bosses who are simply too strong. You'll need to be certain levels to unlock abilities, or have bigger numbers to endure their attacks.
At the very least, you need to be higher levels to kill monsters in sidequests to get gear that will mean you have to grind less.
And this isn't even referring to MMOs.

Some people like these things. Games include them to cater to that crowd. Example: I think level grinding is great.

Would you rather "level-grind" through unique side quests or by running around in circles on an open field for several hours ala-Final Fantasy?
If you actually do enjoy wasting several hours killing the same monsters just to advance the story far enough until you have to spend several hours repeatedly killing a different kind of monster, then you have a problem.

So I have a problem now? Because I like grinding my squads in Soul Nomad or leveling my team in Record of Agarest War? Called different tastes. Insisting someone has a problem because of differing tastes is very rude.

Ignore him. I think he has a case of the entitled pretentious gamer syndrome.

'Everything in a game must have a deeper purpose! I demand it!'

I'm sorry I demand more in game design. Remind me to go for cheap, meaningless fluff.
If I'm going to be forced to go through content, then it better well have a fucking reason. I don't want to sit there mashing buttons during a video scene simply because a failure to do so results in my death and having to replay the video scene with that exact same button mashing. It doesn't add anything to the game. Instead it's padding, filler, giving the illusion of a deeper experience when there isn't one.

 

[Daggedawg]

Every final fantasy up to 12. I haven't played 13 but I hear that's very much the same.
You say that it's "possible to get through a game without grinding", except it's not. In these games there will always be a few bosses who are simply too strong. You'll need to be certain levels to unlock abilities, or have bigger numbers to endure their attacks.
At the very least, you need to be higher levels to kill monsters in sidequests to get gear that will mean you have to grind less.
And this isn't even referring to MMOs.

I got through all of those games without grinding. All the battling I had to do came naturally, on the way to the next area, etc.

If you HAVE to do tedious amounts of grinding to get through a Final Fantasy game, you're doing it wrong.

That said, I don't mind a bit of grinding if it's for a side-quest or secret boss.

 

[Zantos]

If you don't like something in a game then don't play those sort of games. If you choose to then do it anyway don't complain about it and tell people who actually like it that they're wrong/idiots. Halo doesn't make you level grind, go play that.

 

[ThisIsSnake]

I think level grinding is great.

Blasphemer!

OT: Some of it is just laziness, grinding in particular although some argue that grinding on mobs in an mmo teaches you how to best use skills and such.

As for QTE's, these are bland and can really detract from the experience and are basically used so the developer could show you how he wanted combat to look in the game, technical restrictions usually prevent these from being in the actual gameplay and fatality style special finishes aren't usually intuitive. Also it cheapens the awe factor of a big finish if you're doing hundreds of times over a single playthrough.

Compulsary mini-games seem rare to me, it's definately been a while since I've played a game with one. Usually games make you do the optional mi-game once so you kow it exists and then leave it on the side.

As for puzzles, I never really have a problem with these. It's again hard to think of a game where they seem out of place.

 

[Nmil-ek]

Because A. People like them, B. It can show developers care about the fanbase c. They can add depth to the atmosphere, flesh out the world even stupid minigames

Lets use one of my favorite examples two recent games (one yet to be released) Mortal Kombat and MVC 3. Marvel versus Capcom is to me one of the most barebones fighters ever released utterly devoid of all but the most basic of fighting game mechanics and it's really fucking noticable. The story mode is non existant we got treated to a few shitty cutscenes that were already shown via advertisments, endings suck a 10 second text scawl in hard to see 2 pannel comic images that make no fucking sence, theres no spectator mode just cards humping, an abysmal lack of challenge modes, no real alternate costumes just pallet swaps, nothing to break up the fighting or waiting time in lobbies (like a minigame. You can very easily call all these thing's unecessary gimmicks.

I could go on but as a technical fighter it's great one of the better fighting games released in reccent memory but I feel no joy when I look at it or pop it in it really does feel like a game still in beta missing al lthe trimmings, I find myself playing weaker fighters over it simply because theres more to do they feel more complete like they had more love put into them.

Now Mortal Kombat is loaded with fucking content, 2 1/2 hours of dialogue (alot for a fighting game), proper story mode, minigames between fights that add to the combat like a random stats roulette wheel, challenges, unlockables etc. And the fanbase reaction compared ot MVC3's is highly noticable we LIKE thigns liek this we enjoy them if the sum of a game is only it's gameplay you have a very shallow experience.

 

[Archangel768]

Some people like these things. Games include them to cater to that crowd. Example: I think level grinding is great.

Would you rather "level-grind" through unique side quests or by running around in circles on an open field for several hours ala-Final Fantasy?
If you actually do enjoy wasting several hours killing the same monsters just to advance the story far enough until you have to spend several hours repeatedly killing a different kind of monster, then you have a problem.

I'd like to point out that the 'Final Fantasy' you refer to is XIII

Other Final Fantasy games such as VIII had a vast world with MANY different places, hidden items and areas. GFs to get, Getting Limit Breaks, finding all the triple triad cards and so on. I don't know about you but a an underwater lab and the others mentioned seem like pretty 'unique side quests' to me.

This isn't really an attack on you but just something I wanted to point out and clarify so that you understand.