conmag9 said:
008Zulu said:
inu-kun said:
Daenarys is SOIAF's biggest mary sue
Other than having three dragons, how is she the Mary Sue? Her brother abused her, her husband and child were murdered.
Whether or not she's a Mary Sue, having an incredibly crappy childhood/dramatically losing loved ones and then overcoming it on the way to greatness is VERY common in Sues. She's got three dragons, most people she comes into contact love her, she seems to actually be winning despite having a sense of morality (which is rather against the grain of ASOIAF's general themes), she's the last living descendent of the rightful monarchy (such as it was), unusual hair color, having awesome followers that make her seem even better by comparison, immune to fire (in the show at least) etc. She's got quite a few common sue traits. Whether she is or not isn't for me to say, as it's a fairly subjective judgement. But you can see why some might call her that?
Well, a Mary Sue is supposed to be a perfect power fantasy for girls. Most heroic fantasy characters have more than a few things in common with "Mary Sue" characters even when they aren't "Sues". Dany comes close to being a social Sue, but she has a lot of disadvantages, including being dependent on others for just about everything. It could be argued that her morality and idealism are a big weakness in that world, and they do come to bit her in the rear. She has dragons but can't control them perfectly. While she's highly charismatic and has a gift for getting people to like her, she's not that talented a leader and needs advisors, and bad things tend to happen when she doesn't listen to them. If Dany became more directly powerful, getting spell casting ability, learning to fight her own battle, or just overcoming a lot of her naivity and becoming a more talented ruler in her own right, she would become a true Sue, and that might happen closer to the climax if she's intended to be one of the big winners.
It should also be noted that I believe RR Martin once said something about how the real heroes haven't appeared in the story yet (or hadn't when he made the comment). I believe part of his intention here in dissecting fantasy tropes was to focus on the things that happen in the background of your average fantasy story. Almost everyone here is someone who traditionally would be a supporting character or part of the backstory. He's showing what causes the chaos and why things are the way they are, and getting you to at least empathize with the people who make it that way, where in most stories it would start out by narrating the basic situation, but then focus entirely on the hero and their perspective and them setting things right. If the hero walks in and starts cutting down evil barons and such you generally don't care because you don't see much about why the baron became evil or their point of view to begin with. This has lead me to believe that the eventual ending of GoTs is going to be something of an intentional "arsepull" where the heroes will come out of nowhere as happens in heroic fantasy from time to time, set things right, and we, as the watchers will be surprised because we didn't see it coming any more than the guys focused on their own affairs and politics were.
Dany seems like she's being set up as the quintessential romance option for a hero, someone who has resources, but no real ability to use them, and is in the perfect position bloodline wise to resolve the entire conflict and be accepted onto the throne. I guess you could say she's like a version of Ce'nedra before Belgarion shows up. I'm probably wrong but I'd imagine she'll eventually wind up with a serious love interest who will seem out of focus but will wind up being the actual hero of a story where the focus isn't on the heroes. Another analogy might be a fantasy version of say "Astro City" where super heroes exist, but the stories are actually about everyone but them.
It's also been pointed out the TV series departed from the books, and I suspect a big part of it is that they wanted to have a couple of characters who would be around for a long time who the people can cheer for and focus on. What us serious genera fans think is a lot different from the average viewer shows like this require to survive and succeed, and that includes someone to cheer for, even if it's a malevolent anti-hero like Tony Soprano. Right now I think we've pretty much got two straightforward good guys in the form of Jon Snow and Dany, whether Jon is going to die remains to be seen. Then we've got a popular anti-hero in the form of "The Imp" along with a plucky little girl to be a wild card. As people have pointed out all of those characters are a bit different from the book versions, Dany in particular stands out to an extent.
Also the actress playing Daenerys is both beautiful and exotic, and plays her role very well being able to come across as brave, regal, innocent and vulnerable all at the same time. It's not PC to point out but hot girls are time stamped, and they have this one at a perfect time. I'd imagine the bean counters don't want to kill her character because she attracts viewers, and she doesn't want to go either (despite perhaps saying so for negotiation purposes) because she's riding high with a successful, high profile, role in her prime. She's a valuable commodity and everyone likely knows it, this kind of thing is a factor with TV and the theater that doesn't apply to the books. They are going to do everything they can to keep her on the forefront of things. I wouldn't be surprised if despite his comments about wearing the pants if George RR Martin himself has pretty much been told certain characters are off limits at this point due to the amount of money involved. That's not a good thing (creator's rights) and nobody would say so publically, but TV executives have a lot more oomph than even a successful writer, not to mention that I'd imagine even George knows he's riding higher now than he has any other time in his life because of the TV show and knows what side his bread is buttered on.
