Game of Thrones: Red Viper vs The Mountain *Spoilers tagged*
- Thread starter Sean Hollyman
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Well, considering that Khal Drogo ripped a guy's oesophagus out along with his tongue, I really don't see why not. Although season 4 is supposed to be diverging from the books quite a bit so that particular event might not even happen. It'll be interesting to see where this goes
The most I'm hoping for is that Oberyn still dies. Don't get me wrong, I like him as a character and Pedro Pascal does a great job as him, but the showrunners have fucked around with so many characters/cultures so far (that whole fucking bit with the Ironborn and Ramsay as the most recent example) and the book had a nice approach to the usual expectation that you see in a lot of media.
Ideally they'll still have "you killed her, you raped her, you murdered her children" and "I smashed her fucking face in, like this" but I'm expecting Oberyn gets impaled or cut in two or something, don't want to ruin that pretty face after all.
We'll see. I'm a bit pessimistic because of some of their approaches so I'm expecting... basically nothing as of yet.
Ideally they'll still have "you killed her, you raped her, you murdered her children" and "I smashed her fucking face in, like this" but I'm expecting Oberyn gets impaled or cut in two or something, don't want to ruin that pretty face after all.
We'll see. I'm a bit pessimistic because of some of their approaches so I'm expecting... basically nothing as of yet.
For the record, can everyone mark their spoiler tags with what exactly the spoilers are about. I've only just finished ASOS and I want to know what I'm clicking on just in case.
I guess we'll have to wait a week to see. One thing I don't get is thathazabaza1 said:
Ygritte is still alive in the show.
Sean Hollyman said:
Wildlings haven't attacked the wall yet. And I can fucking tell you right this instant, that the goddamn kid talking with his dad about sodding potatoes is going to be the one who lands the killing blow. And that might just be the point I stop watching.
I'm guessing they're probably just going to roll all the Wildling attacks into one battle.hazabaza1 said:
Ygritte is going to die, Mance gets captured, and Stannis shows up, all in the same episode. Seems the most likely route.
More than likely, yeah. I just wonder how they're going to portraySean Hollyman said:
Stannis' arrival.
In the books he was sort of a saviour that became a frustration, but I can see them spinning him to become a villain in the show fairly easily as they're going currently.
In the books he was sort of a saviour that became a frustration, but I can see them spinning him to become a villain in the show fairly easily as they're going currently.
Sean Hollyman said:
hazabaza1 said:
The showrunners are changing stuff up here and there, but one thing they haven't skimped on is brutality. They managed to make the red wedding grislier with the baby-stabbing, this season they took the opportunity of everyone hating Joffrey by making it ugly to watch - they enjoy playing up the gore during surprise moments to make them more uncomfortable, and I wouldn't be surprised if they really went at it here. They might not, they always might not, but this is something that I consider them less likely to change than most other things - the only thing I see them changing that for is 1. technical difficulties, or 2. they think of something equally/more gruesome, or that just works better for television.
hazabaza1 said:
Fneh, I think Stannis seeming worse is more of an artifact of the TV having to abandon the PoV structure of the books, and the strength of Stephen Dillane's performance - his character shines through rather than being obscured by Davos' perspective. But I also don't see him becoming an actual villain - if he became all about the Iron Throne, he could, but his show arc started there, and has been curving more and more towards devotion to the Lord of Light, so in that case at worse he's a misguided convert, at best he leads the crusade against the Long Night (speculation there, not spoiler) - not exactly dyed-in-the-cloth villain, eh?
Mind you, actual villains are sparing and hard to define in this show, because once you give a 'villain' motivations that are understandable for an ordinary person to have, it's harder to peg them down as a villain. I mean, who are the straight up villains in ASOIAF? Ramsey, Joffrey and Viserys are super-obvious, Walder Frey and The Mountain clear enough, Littlefinger has only recently clearly been a villain, Cersei soon become that, but isn't there yet. So that's 7, and only a few of them are active villains at any one time, out of a HUGE cast.
Tywin has villainous qualities, and yet he's got his head on straighter than almost anyone else. Stannis is a humourless zealot, but he's driven by principles, has human moments, and hangs more on the side of good than not. Jaime starts with a terrible deed, but as we get to know him, almost everything he does, even including tossing Bran, is understandable, and he keeps moving towards redemption. Theon betrays Robb, but he does it out of loyalty to family and more than pays for it. Mance is a threat to everyone on the wall, but he's just a natural leader uniting a fractured people in order to save them. On the other hand, Margaery is nice and pleasant, but all she does is manipulate her way to the top of things. And I like it this way - there don't need to be villains, there just need to be enough characters with conflicting goals and determination to go for them - everyone can't win.
Mind you, actual villains are sparing and hard to define in this show, because once you give a 'villain' motivations that are understandable for an ordinary person to have, it's harder to peg them down as a villain. I mean, who are the straight up villains in ASOIAF? Ramsey, Joffrey and Viserys are super-obvious, Walder Frey and The Mountain clear enough, Littlefinger has only recently clearly been a villain, Cersei soon become that, but isn't there yet. So that's 7, and only a few of them are active villains at any one time, out of a HUGE cast.
Tywin has villainous qualities, and yet he's got his head on straighter than almost anyone else. Stannis is a humourless zealot, but he's driven by principles, has human moments, and hangs more on the side of good than not. Jaime starts with a terrible deed, but as we get to know him, almost everything he does, even including tossing Bran, is understandable, and he keeps moving towards redemption. Theon betrays Robb, but he does it out of loyalty to family and more than pays for it. Mance is a threat to everyone on the wall, but he's just a natural leader uniting a fractured people in order to save them. On the other hand, Margaery is nice and pleasant, but all she does is manipulate her way to the top of things. And I like it this way - there don't need to be villains, there just need to be enough characters with conflicting goals and determination to go for them - everyone can't win.
I was shaking a bit reading it. Had to cover half the page with my hand so I wouldn't accidentally glance down.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
I just started reading the books and had the same reaction as you when I read that part, it was super unsettling reading that. That said, I'm pretty sure the show will follow the fight scene exactly as how it happens in the books. Oberyn's death is kinda of a big deal and sparks new events so he has to die. And I don't see them just killing Oberyn and leaving the Mountain alive, the fact that both die and Oberyn in such a surprising and unsettling way, you know right after he's essentially won, has all the makings of another Red Wedding surprise. I don't see why the show would deviate from that.
What surprised me was that
Qyburn turns The Mountain in to a headless "zombie" under Cersi's command.
Sean Hollyman said:
The events leading to Ygritte's death in the books haven't occurred on screen yet. Timelines are shifted.
Also...
There's no way Oberyn lives. Mountain vs Red Viper is like the Red Wedding...it is an ICONIC event from the books. This isn't changing Vargo Hoat or switching Asha's name around for some stupid fucking reason. Throw in that casting for season 5 was leaked and we have 90% of Dorne in there (including three Sand Snakes) and it's very evident that entire storyline will continue apace.
BloatedGuppy said:
Even though I know it's coming, part of me is still rooting for Oberyn. It would awful if they changed the storyline to allow him to live but, at the same time, I've really enjoyed watching his character in the show and I think I'm going to have more of a reaction to his death on-screen than I did in the books (presuming they do it well). The actor has been one of my favourites of this season.
When it happened in the books, it was one of those moments where I read the lines three or four times, just to make sure that it had actually happened.
When it happened in the books, it was one of those moments where I read the lines three or four times, just to make sure that it had actually happened.
I'm glad that I listened to the audio books because there is no way I would have been able to resist glancing down to other bits. That and the guy they had reading it was really good.Sean Hollyman said:
That can't happen, or they'd frak up what "A Dance with Dragons' is obviously leading up to.hazabaza1 said:
Generally I hope they simply stop deviating, the whole strength of the show has been that they didn't fuck up the books, unlike many TV-adaptations. There have been the "merged" characters and renames, but they hadn't annoyed me up until this season, where they started to get overboard with new events.
They'd better delay the production of the show significantly if they're starting to run out of content.
Sean Hollyman said:
Ygritte is still alive because they seem to want to have virtually the whole wilding attack on the wall punched into these last three episodes.
So I don't see any reason that the Mountain vs. Viper fight won't happen in almost the exact same way to the book. I think that events at the wall are really just killing time at the moment and I hope the events don't lose something from being bunched up in a handful of episodes rather than through the entire second half of the book.
I mean the wilding attacks are over several gruelling days over and over again and the choosing goes on for about a week and a half as well. It'll really lose something if they happen in one go. Plus I'm hope they don;t have a really contrived reason for Jon Snow to take command in the attack since there are loads of more experienced crows on the wall ATM
It's not an issue yet, and won't be for at least 3 more years. Seasons 1-2 were direct parallels to Books 1-2. Season 3 was Book 3a, and this current Season 4 is book 3b, but because of the chronology of books 4a, 4b and 5, assuming they do one season per novel because of the amount of content, it means the next three (5, 6 & 7) will encompass those aforementioned books between them. They will shuffle the books around so something from book 5 might be in season 5 while something from 4a could be in season 6 for example.Fdzzaigl said:
With the assumption of one season per novel, with the knowledge that Book 6 will be split in two also and another assumption that Book 7, the final book will be only one novel then there's 3 more seasons to tack on bringing the total up to 10 seasons. At the moment, they have enough material for three more years hopefully during which time Books 6a and 6b will come out and add 2 more to the tally. As such, I'm approximating that it would most likely look something like the following:
Season 1 - Book 1 - 2011
Season 2 - Book 2 - 2012
Season 3 - Book 3a - 2013
Season 4 - Book 3b - 2014
Season 5 - Books 4a, 4b, 5 - 2015 (all three books mushed together)
Season 6 - Books 4a, 4b, 5 - 2016
Season 7 - Books 4a, 4b, 5 - 2017
Season 8 - Books 6a & 6b - 2018 (assuming they occur in the same time-frame and not sequentially)
Season 9 - Books 6a & 6b - 2019
Season 10 - Book 7 - 2020
[Season 11 - Book 7b - 2021]?
Saying that, Book 7's Wikipedia page estimates that, like Book 6, it may be split into two volumes also. But there's so many unknowns. Despite his slow pace, I think Book 6 will be out by the time the show wraps up for the year in 2017. But the chances of Book 7 being out in time seem pretty remote. With so many factors at play, anything could happen. They might take a one year hiatus, finish with a feature length "movie" rather than a TV season or diverge from the books entirely and make their own ending (tho if that's the case it'll be very tricky since the shows producers know how Martin plans to end it, but likely won't be allowed to televise it before Book 7 is out).
Another issue that might be faced is one that afflicts every TV show with young actors, in that Maisie Williams, who plays Arya for example and is 17 right now, will be 23 years old in 2020, far from a child. All the characters were "aged up" somewhat anyway since Danaerys had to be 18 for the character to have sex on screen. If each "Book" is 1 year of Westeros time (is it? I have no idea), then Seasons 5-9 (5 Earth Years) occur over 3 Westeros Years so the actors will age faster than their characters.
I think in an ideal world, Book 6 would be published in 2016 or at the latest, early 2017. Then GRRM would have 2017-2019 (or very early 2020), 3 years to finish Book 7, tho at this point he would probably need to also advise the writers how to make a start on Season 7 so they would be working in parallel. That's massively optimistic given what I understand to be GRRM's slow pace and numerous side projects/distractions. If it could happen that way tho, Book 6 in 2016 and Book 7 in 2019, the show could continue uninterrupted through to its conclusion, his readers would get the ending before the show aired and the show would be able to tell the proper ending. Basically the perfect outcome.