Game of Thrones Season 7 discussion thread. (SPOILERS ABOUND)

[BloatedGuppy]

I remember people saying that Game of Thrones is a spearheading example of Television/Series is where all the quality writers and directors are headed to because theatrical movies are dying and most movies that comes out of Movies suck or just mediocre.

As a long form essay in character/world creation, television is vastly superior to film and extremely talented people do enjoy working in the medium. The spearheading example was HBO during its "Golden Period", most specifically with Sopranos and The Wire. Showrunners like David Chase or David Simon were tempermental and demanding but their perfectionism netted results and ushered in a new era of "appointment television" with production values and artistic ambition previously unseen.

"Game of Thrones" was an adaptation of an existing work that seemed doomed to failure due to that work's byzantine complexity and ludicrous girth, but did a commendable job translating the author's major story beats to the screen with only a few missteps to sully it.

Then, they ran out of books. And now it's trite, wanky rubbish. Looks gorgeous (although the show's CGI ambitions still exceed their budget), well cast, but the writing is terrible, and the direction often sub par. Can't escape bad writing. Bad writing, bad show.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I remember people saying that Game of Thrones is a spearheading example of Television/Series is where all the quality writers and directors are headed to because theatrical movies are dying and most movies that comes out of Movies suck or just mediocre.

As a long form essay in character/world creation, television is vastly superior to film and extremely talented people do enjoy working in the medium. The spearheading examples was HBO during its "Golden Period", most specifically with Sopranos and The Wire. Showrunners like David Chase or David Simon were tempermental and demanding but their perfectionism netted results and ushered in a new era of "appointment television" with production values and artistic ambition previously unseen.

"but their perfectionism netted results and ushered in a new era of "appointment television" with production values and artistic ambition previously unseen"

Say hello to Rome:


Say hello to Band of Brothers:


And heck there is also the likes of Babylon 5 and Star Trek (especially TNG and DS9)

 

[BloatedGuppy]

"but their perfectionism netted results and ushered in a new era of "appointment television" with production values and artistic ambition previously unseen"

Say hello to Rome:


Say hello to Band of Brothers:


And heck there is also the likes of Babylon 5 and Star Trek (especially TNG and DS9)

The Wire and Sopranos both preceded Rome by several years, and Band of Brothers was a mini-series.

All due respect to Babylon 5 and Star Trek and their fans, but those shows don't really belong in the same conversation as some of the titles we're discussing.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

"but their perfectionism netted results and ushered in a new era of "appointment television" with production values and artistic ambition previously unseen"

Say hello to Rome:


Say hello to Band of Brothers:


And heck there is also the likes of Babylon 5 and Star Trek (especially TNG and DS9)

The Wire and Sopranos both preceded Rome by several years, and Band of Brothers was a mini-series.

All due respect to Babylon 5 and Star Trek and their fans, but those shows don't really belong in the same conversation as some of the titles we're discussing.

But Rome preceeded Game of Thrones.

The reason why Game of Thrones is more popular because it attracted geek culture with its fantasy setting (Even though the fantasy is increadibly downplayed) and better marketing of tits and action.

While Rome is a Historical Movie, and history is boring to some.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

But Rome preceeded Game of Thrones.

The reason why Game of Thrones is more popular because it attracted geek culture with its fantasy setting (Even though the fantasy is increadibly downplayed) and better marketing of tits and action.

While Rome is a Historical Movie, and history is boring to some.

Game of Thrones is popular because of its high production values and (previously) excellent writing. We've had "fantasy settings" before that failed to draw audiences. Remember Willow? Setting alone does not guarantee turnout.

If you'll remember the genesis of this interaction (like, 3 posts ago), you suggested "Game of Thrones" was a trailblazer for quality television. I said it was no such thing, and listed the actual trailblazers. Rome preceding GoT means absolutely nothing in the context of that discussion. Additionally, as Rome was cancelled after only 2 seasons, it barely merits mentioning at all. Like Deadwood it was a show whose ambitions exceeded its grasp.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

But Rome preceeded Game of Thrones.

The reason why Game of Thrones is more popular because it attracted geek culture with its fantasy setting (Even though the fantasy is increadibly downplayed) and better marketing of tits and action.

While Rome is a Historical Movie, and history is boring to some.

Game of Thrones is popular because of its high production values and (previously) excellent writing. We've had "fantasy settings" before that failed to draw audiences. Remember Willow? Setting alone does not guarantee turnout.

If you'll remember the genesis of this interaction (like, 3 posts ago), you suggested "Game of Thrones" was a trailblazer for quality television. I said it was no such thing, and listed the actual trailblazers. Rome preceding GoT means absolutely nothing in the context of that discussion. Additionally, as Rome was cancelled after only 2 seasons, it barely merits mentioning at all. Like Deadwood it was a show whose ambitions exceeded its grasp.

Apoligise then I realized I was rambling because of that one statment in your post said.

My initial statement was me lashing out at this reviewer I remember who criticized the Warcraft movie and uses Game of Thrones as a comparison against it.

But both Warcraft and Game of Thrones made me realize that there is no single person in the movie and television making buisness that can treat these properties the adaptions they truly deserve.

Like does everyone who writes for movies and TV just suck now?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Apoligise then I realized I was rambling because of that one statment in your post said.

My initial statement was me lashing out at this reviewer I remember who criticized the Warcraft movie and uses Game of Thrones as a comparison against it.

But both Warcraft and Game of Thrones made me realize that there is no single person in the movie and television making buisness that can treat these properties the adaptions they truly deserve.

Like does everyone who writes for movies and TV just suck now?

Yeah Warcraft was pretty horrendous. Too much fan pandering while at the same time being a completely hapless adaptation. Suspect there was some studio/director power struggle there. Jones is a competent director but should probably stick to smaller, more personal fare.

As for movies and TV, there's plenty of excellent stuff out there. "Warcraft" and the current run of Game of Thrones aren't among them, but that's life. The source material for GoT was so hard to develop it's a miracle we got 3.5 decently watchable seasons and that the whole thing didn't crash and burn after the pilot.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Apoligise then I realized I was rambling because of that one statment in your post said.

My initial statement was me lashing out at this reviewer I remember who criticized the Warcraft movie and uses Game of Thrones as a comparison against it.

But both Warcraft and Game of Thrones made me realize that there is no single person in the movie and television making buisness that can treat these properties the adaptions they truly deserve.

Like does everyone who writes for movies and TV just suck now?

Yeah Warcraft was pretty horrendous. Too much fan pandering while at the same time being a completely hapless adaptation. Suspect there was some studio/director power struggle there. Jones is a competent director but should probably stick to smaller, more personal fare.

As for movies and TV, there's plenty of excellent stuff out there. "Warcraft" and the current run of Game of Thrones aren't among them, but that's life. The source material for GoT was so hard to develop it's a miracle we got 3.5 decently watchable seasons and that the whole thing didn't crash and burn after the pilot.

Alright there is something else I wanna mention, you read the Silmarillion because I feel a TV series rout is the best method to adapt it. And I found this site to showcase an outline of how it would work:

https://silmarillionseries.com/

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Alright there is something else I wanna mention, you read the Silmarillion because I feel a TV series rout is the best method to adapt it. And I found this site to showcase an outline of how it would work:

https://silmarillionseries.com/

I haven't, no.

And after The Hobbit I think letting Tolkien rest for a while is probably in everyone's best interests.

If you want to get excited about a new fantasy property cross your fingers that Netflix doesn't shit the bed with The Witcher.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Alright there is something else I wanna mention, you read the Silmarillion because I feel a TV series rout is the best method to adapt it. And I found this site to showcase an outline of how it would work:

https://silmarillionseries.com/

I haven't, no.

And after The Hobbit I think letting Tolkien rest for a while is probably in everyone's best interests.

If you want to get excited about a new fantasy property cross your fingers that Netflix doesn't shit the bed with The Witcher.

The Hobbit movies is way better than anything Warcraft and Post Season 3 Game of Thrones does

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The Hobbit movies is way better than anything Warcraft and Post Season 3 Game of Thrones does

Getting hit in the head with a sack full of pennies is better than getting dragged naked across a field of broken glass, but that doesn't make either of those things time well spent.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The Hobbit movies is way better than anything Warcraft and Post Season 3 Game of Thrones does

Getting hit in the head with a sack full of pennies is better than getting dragged naked across a field of broken glass, but that doesn't make either of those things time well spent.

DEBATE TIME!!!

I truly honestly believe the movie was paced fine with 3 movies and if this is Peter Jackson at his worse and has not had any prep-time than jeez I truly believe the man is incapable of doing anything wrong.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

DEBATE TIME!!!

I truly honestly believe the movie was paced fine with 3 movies and if this is Peter Jackson at his worse and has not had any prep-time than jeez I truly believe the man is incapable of doing anything wrong.

People "truly honestly believe" a lot of crazy shit. The Hobbit films are terrible. They almost drove McKellan out of acting and Jackson is largely apologetic about them. They're not "Star Wars prequel" bad but given the pedigree they were huge disappointments.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

DEBATE TIME!!!

I truly honestly believe the movie was paced fine with 3 movies and if this is Peter Jackson at his worse and has not had any prep-time than jeez I truly believe the man is incapable of doing anything wrong.

People "truly honestly believe" a lot of crazy shit. The Hobbit films are terrible. They almost drove McKellan out of acting and Jackson is largely apologetic about them. They're not "Star Wars prequel" bad but given the pedigree they were huge disappointments.

How do you think the movies could have worked as a single movie without feeling rushed than because imo the book itself is bloated?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

How do you think the movies could have worked as a single movie without feeling rushed than?

They didn't need to be made at all, and having Jackson make them was an error in judgment.

The Hobbit is a complete tonal departure from LOTR, to say nothing of a fraction of the length. Trying to engineer it into a tentpole trilogy was sheer studio greed.

 

[balladbird]

Yeah, the Ellaria scene fell so flat. I pretty much hate everything about Cersei, so any scene that has me tacitly supporting her is a sign of failed intentions on the part of the writers.

I felt decently bad for the random, unnamed daughter, I guess, but Ellaria herself? As a much better villain in a much better television series once expressed to his own helpless prisoner: "This is what comes of 'blood for blood'"

Didn't hate the rest of the episode as much as as some have, but the speed with which the series it tying up its loose ends as it steamrolls to its climax has me a little burned out. I mean, infecting Jorah with zombie plague so he could lament it for a few eps, then have it magically cured over the course of one (admittedly well-disturbing) scene? seems somewhat abrupt... but after the season 6 finale I'm used to abrupt plot resolutions in this show.

Oh! One other complaint I have for this episode: Both the scene with Jon Snow explaining the white walkers and the scene with Bran explaining the 3-eyed raven made me cringe so hard. Seriously, people in westeros need to start preventatively teaching their children how to explain hard-to-believe truths in a manner that doesn't make you seem like a madman.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Yeah, the Ellaria scene fell so flat. I pretty much hate everything about Cersei, so any scene that has me tacitly supporting her is a sign of failed intentions on the part of the writers.

I felt decently bad for the random, unnamed daughter, I guess, but Ellaria herself? As a much better villain in a much better television series once expressed to his own helpless prisoner: "This is what comes of 'blood for blood'"

Didn't hate the rest of the episode as much as as some have, but the speed with which the series it tying up its loose ends as it steamrolls to its climax has me a little burned out. I mean, infecting Jorah with zombie plague so he could lament it for a few eps, then have it magically cured over the course of one (admittedly well-disturbing) scene? seems somewhat abrupt... but after the season 6 finale I'm used to abrupt plot resolutions in this show.

Oh! One other complaint I have for this episode: Both the scene with Jon Snow explaining the white walkers and the scene with Bran explaining the 3-eyed raven made me cringe so hard. Seriously, people in westeros need to start preventatively teaching their children how to explain hard-to-believe truths in a manner that doesn't make you seem like a madman.

So far Jorah getting Greyscale is only done as a way to get him into Westeros, what are they gonna do with him now I believe they are gonna set up conflict with Jorah and Jon Snow because people think Jon and Dany are gonna get shipped together and what better way to add conflict to that than a very jealous Jorah?

Also how would you explain to people that Demons from Hell exists and walks in the physical world without coming off as a Madman?

 

[DaCosta]

When Jon was asking Tyrion "Do you think I'm a liar? Or a madman?"

To his defense, I was thinking he wasn't a person interesting enough to come up with a story like that either.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Would Robert Baratheon kill Jon Snow if he finds out he's the son of Lyanna and Rheagar?

The one thing that would stop him is the fact that he is Lyanna's son and by physical apperence looks nothing like Rheagar.

Lets just say could it work like Harry Potter and Severus Snape?

 

[happyninja42]

Can I just say I am glad Jon Snow is taking a more active role, he sure came a long way from the "You know nothing Jon Snow" shy young teen from the early seasons. Now he talks more often and with more assertiveness.

Almost like there's a thing called a character arc that involves growth

OT:

So, what is the relationship gap between Jon and Danny? Are they distantly related enough to be able to marry? Because I can see that kind of marital paring (for political reasons alone if nothing else, but also for the bloodline), but I don't recall how they are related. Are they first cousins? 2nd cousins?